Hollinger on the C's Trade

[Greenbean]

Think of it this way:
Doc: Rajon now that we have Nate I want you to play as hard as you can and DOMINATE defensively, we can give you a breather now
Nate:thats right I can play more than 8 minutes like sam or marbury
Rondo: wow that would be great our defense can start with an inbounds pass and the shot clock will be down before other team can get into their offense, this will make a difference!

I really like this thought. More pressing early and often. Rondo was doing that last night in the first half and it really did make a difference. He was so active.

[ScoobyDoo]

I agree with Cman here, Ainge's failure to get a real legit and solid back up point guard to go behind Rondo for the last three seasons has been one of his biggest mistakes.

We were a great team in 2008 but with a legit back up point we would have been that much better still.

Instead, we've had:
Eddie House: an undersized off guard who can't dribble or pass

TAllen: Also an undersized point guard who also can't shoot or dribble

Cassell and Marbury? I don't need to answer that

Marquis Daniels: Like his game, but he's an off guard again.

We simply need a P-O-I-N-T G-U-A-R-D back up, one who can:
Shoot an open jumper
Dribble the ball
Get in the lane and make a pass every now and then
Has the ability to initiate an offense.

Not a superstar, just a decent vet min guy ( Anthony Carter, Anthony Jonhson type). You've got an all star point with no back up. Almost as bad as having a Hall of fame SF with no back up last year and a couple of off guards as his back up this year in Quis and TA. It's not good. 

I think having a legit point who can get into the lane and put pressure on the defense will have a tremendous impact on the offensive effectiveness of the second unit, when Rondo is sitting.

Right now if Rondo goes out we are like ducks in a barrel and just stagnate terribly. And no, Pierce dribbling at the top of the key is not the answer, that is a disaster, as is Ray in the same positon. That's why they are not point guards.

And the best thing about Nate, HE ATTACKS THE RIM!

I knwo he has drawbacks but if he comes off the bench like a lightning rod, attacks the rim and gets some of our other second unit guys easier shots, we could become very explosive in short order, assuming KG and PP continue to progress heslth wise.

The jury is still out until we have a month under our belts with the new team, but I remain very optimistic.

I have never understood Ainge's failure or reluctance to get a legit back up for Rondo, we now have the closest thing to that since Rondo's been here and I'm excited to see if it makes the difference I think it will.       

[Brendan]

I agree with Cman here, Ainge's failure to get a real legit and solid back up point guard to go behind Rondo for the last three seasons has been one of his biggest mistakes.

We were a great team in 2008 but with a legit back up point we would have been that much better still.

Instead, we've had:
Eddie House: an undersized off guard who can't dribble or pass

TAllen: Also an undersized point guard who also can't shoot or dribble

Cassell and Marbury? I don't need to answer that

Marquis Daniels: Like his game, but he's an off guard again.

We simply need a P-O-I-N-T G-U-A-R-D back up, one who can:
Shoot an open jumper
Dribble the ball
Get in the lane and make a pass every now and then
Has the ability to initiate an offense.

Not a superstar, just a decent vet min guy ( Anthony Carter, Anthony Jonhson type). You've got an all star point with no back up. Almost as bad as having a Hall of fame SF with no back up last year and a couple of off guards as his back up this year in Quis and TA. It's not good. 

I think having a legit point who can get into the lane and put pressure on the defense will have a tremendous impact on the offensive effectiveness of the second unit, when Rondo is sitting.

Right now if Rondo goes out we are like ducks in a barrel and just stagnate terribly. And no, Pierce dribbling at the top of the key is not the answer, that is a disaster, as is Ray in the same positon. That's why they are not point guards.

And the best thing about Nate, HE ATTACKS THE RIM!

I knwo he has drawbacks but if he comes off the bench like a lightning rod, attacks the rim and gets some of our other second unit guys easier shots, we could become very explosive in short order, assuming KG and PP continue to progress heslth wise.

The jury is still out until we have a month under our belts with the new team, but I remain very optimistic.

I have never understood Ainge's failure or reluctance to get a legit back up for Rondo, we now have the closest thing to that since Rondo's been here and I'm excited to see if it makes the difference I think it will.       

You realize that in one of the seasons his biggest mistake didn't prevent the team from winning the championship. I think the primary issue has been KG's injury / deminished level of play.

The real problem has been it's difficult to find a guard who can play in the back court with either Rondo or Ray Allen. Tony Allen doesn't have enough handle to play with Ray or enough shot to play with Rondo. Delonte West would have - if only DA could have sold then Seattle on Tony Allen instead of West. On the other hand, I don't think there were that many options, and I don't think its anywhere close to KG's injury in terms of importance.

[Fafnir]

TAllen: Also an undersized point guard who also can't shoot or dribble

In what universe is Tony undersized to play PG?

[boscel33]

for me, it's not about this trade.  i think this was a "nice" trade, not great, not bad.  my issue is the one that we did no make.  we are going to be hamstrung over the next few years with the inability to sign a free agent, all the while pp and kg get older and older.  this was the year to do what other teams were doing and trade an expiring contract to get younger.

[BballTim]

for me, it's not about this trade.  i think this was a "nice" trade, not great, not bad.  my issue is the one that we did no make.  we are going to be hamstrung over the next few years with the inability to sign a free agent, all the while pp and kg get older and older.  this was the year to do what other teams were doing and trade an expiring contract to get younger.

  Dallas didn't get younger, Cleveland didn't get younger.

[jasail]

I don't think the need was for a back up point guard.  Quis could handle the ball for 8 min a game when Rondo is not on the floor.  The real need was for a bench player that can create.  

Nate gives the team a true offensive option in the second unit.  This takes the burden off Sheed, as that game plan did not work out to plan.  It also lets Quis play off the ball posting up guards which is where he is at his best offensively.  Nate still spreads the floor but you can't cheat on him like House (think Reddick & Lee in the Orlando series) b/c he can beat you off the dribble.    

[jasail]

for me, it's not about this trade.  i think this was a "nice" trade, not great, not bad.  my issue is the one that we did no make.  we are going to be hamstrung over the next few years with the inability to sign a free agent, all the while pp and kg get older and older.  this was the year to do what other teams were doing and trade an expiring contract to get younger.

  Dallas didn't get younger, Cleveland didn't get younger.

IMO Dallas is not a real contender.  They made a trade that made them better but I don't think they can win a series against LAL, Denver or maybe even Houston or Portland for that matter. 

Portland didn't get younger but they are young and filled a huge hole at Center.

Houston traded youth (in Landry) for youth (in Martin).  They moved from a position of depth (big men) to a lean position (guard) and improved their scoring. 

Cleveland is already young (LBJ, AV, DW, Mo, Boobie).  They didn't need to get younger.  They needed a true PF who could spread the floor.  They got that now AV/Hickson can be energy and rebounding off the bench. 

C's needed to get younger if they want to compete in the next 2-5 seasons.  The improved on the peripherals this year.  But they did not make a move that would show you they are concerned about 2011 on.  So this may be the last run and we should very well expect them to blow up this core over the next two seasons. 

[Brickowski]

I would rate Dallas and Denver as about equal now.  Both teams are behind LA, but not by much.

[Tnerb02]

TAllen: Also an undersized point guard who also can't shoot or dribble

In what universe is Tony undersized to play PG?

I agree, I went to a Celtics game a couple years ago and sat right behind the C's bench and one of the surprising things to me is how tall Tony Allen was. He was about the same height as Leon Powe.

[MBunge]

I like the trade for Nate the more I think about it.

The most important thing with the Cs is whether or not KG, Ray and Paul can get back to 85-90% of what they were two years ago.  If they can, a more dramatic move really wasn't necessary.  If they can't, I don't think there's any point in driving the team further into salary cap hell chasing something that's not going to happen.

Mike

[Fafnir]

TAllen: Also an undersized point guard who also can't shoot or dribble

In what universe is Tony undersized to play PG?

I agree, I went to a Celtics game a couple years ago and sat right behind the C's bench and one of the surprising things to me is how tall Tony Allen was. He was about the same height as Leon Powe.

6'5" is a very big PG, even in the NBA.

[TitleMaster]

Robinson's also a shooter, so what prevents him from playing side-by-side with Rondo, over stretches, as SG? Is it basically a height problem, where the SG needs to be at least 6'4", to be able to take a viable open shot, w/o being automatically covered? I figured he's got enough vertical leap to make it possible.

[2short]

TAllen: Also an undersized point guard who also can't shoot or dribble

In what universe is Tony undersized to play PG?

I agree, I went to a Celtics game a couple years ago and sat right behind the C's bench and one of the surprising things to me is how tall Tony Allen was. He was about the same height as Leon Powe.

what should be more surprising is how well leon rebounded at 6'6"

[Neurotic Guy]

What I like most about the upside of Nate is that he is used to playing a substitute role and supplying jolts of energy and excitement and production -- seemingly exactly what this team has needed.  He has also done this with teams far less talented and in situations where he was more of the focus than he might be in some C's lineups.

He is Hambone Williams on steroids!  I think after the first game in which he makes an impact (which I think will be in one of his first 2 or 3 games), he'll be seen in a very positive light here -- at least for a while (we'll see whether attitude can be helped by a winning atmosphere and playing with an experienced and talented team).