Years from now will we look back and think what could have been?

[Roy Hobbs]

  The idea of trading Ray Allen wasn't to get a piece to win a championship.  It was to acquire a young player who would otherwise be un-acquirable.  No one move would ensure the Celtics to be a championship team in future years.. you can only make one move at a time and hope the sum of the moves results in a championship caliber team.  So far, our chance to make that one big move seems to be passing.

I'll ask you the same question I asked Plamb:  who was this young player that we were supposed to trade Ray for?  Jamison is old, and would have made no sense.  Butler is 30, and is a small forward, so he doesn't fit the criteria, either.  Kmart cost Carl Landry, a guy we couldn't match.

I guess we could have potentially traded Ray for Jared Jeffries and some draft picks, but I don't think it makes sense to totally blow up the team's championship hopes, as slim as they appear to be now.

[Fafnir]

  The idea of trading Ray Allen wasn't to get a piece to win a championship.  It was to acquire a young player who would otherwise be un-acquirable.  No one move would ensure the Celtics to be a championship team in future years.. you can only make one move at a time and hope the sum of the moves results in a championship caliber team.  So far, our chance to make that one big move seems to be passing.

I'll ask you the same question I asked Plamb:  who was this young player that we were supposed to trade Ray for?  Jamison is old, and would have made no sense.  Butler is 30, and is a small forward, so he doesn't fit the criteria, either.  Kmart cost Carl Landry, a guy we couldn't match.

I guess we could have potentially traded Ray for Jared Jeffries and some draft picks, but I don't think it makes sense to totally blow up the team's championship hopes, as slim as they appear to be now.

I don't think you trading Ray for Jordan Hill and a draft pick is something I'd like. That seems to be the best deal I see out there right now.

[Fan from VT]

Considering WE WON A TITLE and we still look back at "what could have been" with the Durant pick THAT WE NEVER HAD, I'd say yes, people will look back and wonder what could have been

[PLamb]

  The idea of trading Ray Allen wasn't to get a piece to win a championship.  It was to acquire a young player who would otherwise be un-acquirable.  No one move would ensure the Celtics to be a championship team in future years.. you can only make one move at a time and hope the sum of the moves results in a championship caliber team.  So far, our chance to make that one big move seems to be passing.

I'll ask you the same question I asked Plamb:  who was this young player that we were supposed to trade Ray for?  Jamison is old, and would have made no sense.  Butler is 30, and is a small forward, so he doesn't fit the criteria, either.  Kmart cost Carl Landry, a guy we couldn't match.

I guess we could have potentially traded Ray for Jared Jeffries and some draft picks, but I don't think it makes sense to totally blow up the team's championship hopes, as slim as they appear to be now.

Kevin Martin??

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4923777

The Rockets seemingly put this together over night

Is McGrady/Landry/Dorsey are that much different than Allen/Davis/Scal

And that happened over night

[Roy Hobbs]

  The idea of trading Ray Allen wasn't to get a piece to win a championship.  It was to acquire a young player who would otherwise be un-acquirable.  No one move would ensure the Celtics to be a championship team in future years.. you can only make one move at a time and hope the sum of the moves results in a championship caliber team.  So far, our chance to make that one big move seems to be passing.

I'll ask you the same question I asked Plamb:  who was this young player that we were supposed to trade Ray for?  Jamison is old, and would have made no sense.  Butler is 30, and is a small forward, so he doesn't fit the criteria, either.  Kmart cost Carl Landry, a guy we couldn't match.

I guess we could have potentially traded Ray for Jared Jeffries and some draft picks, but I don't think it makes sense to totally blow up the team's championship hopes, as slim as they appear to be now.

Kevin Martin??

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4923777

The Rockets seemingly put this together over night

Is McGrady/Landry/Dorsey are that much different than Allen/Davis/Scal

And that happened over night

Yes, Carl Landry is significantly better than BBD.  I'm surprised that you seemingly disagree.

[Fafnir]

  The idea of trading Ray Allen wasn't to get a piece to win a championship.  It was to acquire a young player who would otherwise be un-acquirable.  No one move would ensure the Celtics to be a championship team in future years.. you can only make one move at a time and hope the sum of the moves results in a championship caliber team.  So far, our chance to make that one big move seems to be passing.

I'll ask you the same question I asked Plamb:  who was this young player that we were supposed to trade Ray for?  Jamison is old, and would have made no sense.  Butler is 30, and is a small forward, so he doesn't fit the criteria, either.  Kmart cost Carl Landry, a guy we couldn't match.

I guess we could have potentially traded Ray for Jared Jeffries and some draft picks, but I don't think it makes sense to totally blow up the team's championship hopes, as slim as they appear to be now.

Kevin Martin??

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4923777

The Rockets seemingly put this together over night

Is McGrady/Landry/Dorsey are that much different than Allen/Davis/Scal

And that happened over night

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tiny.cgi?id=mk1nm
http://www.82games.com/0910/09HOU11.HTM
http://www.82games.com/0910/09BOS11.HTM


If you think that Glen Davis = Carl Landry you haven't been paying attention this year. One is an undersize PF who is effective at finishing, the other is an undersized PF who gets blocked over 30% of the time he goes up to score at the rim.

[BudweiserCeltic]

  The idea of trading Ray Allen wasn't to get a piece to win a championship.  It was to acquire a young player who would otherwise be un-acquirable.  No one move would ensure the Celtics to be a championship team in future years.. you can only make one move at a time and hope the sum of the moves results in a championship caliber team.  So far, our chance to make that one big move seems to be passing.

I'll ask you the same question I asked Plamb:  who was this young player that we were supposed to trade Ray for?  Jamison is old, and would have made no sense.  Butler is 30, and is a small forward, so he doesn't fit the criteria, either.  Kmart cost Carl Landry, a guy we couldn't match.

I guess we could have potentially traded Ray for Jared Jeffries and some draft picks, but I don't think it makes sense to totally blow up the team's championship hopes, as slim as they appear to be now.

Kevin Martin??

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4923777

The Rockets seemingly put this together over night

Is McGrady/Landry/Dorsey are that much different than Allen/Davis/Scal

And that happened over night

Of course it is. Plus, remember that Davis is a BYC player and that much harder to trade.

[Fafnir]

  The idea of trading Ray Allen wasn't to get a piece to win a championship.  It was to acquire a young player who would otherwise be un-acquirable.  No one move would ensure the Celtics to be a championship team in future years.. you can only make one move at a time and hope the sum of the moves results in a championship caliber team.  So far, our chance to make that one big move seems to be passing.

I'll ask you the same question I asked Plamb:  who was this young player that we were supposed to trade Ray for?  Jamison is old, and would have made no sense.  Butler is 30, and is a small forward, so he doesn't fit the criteria, either.  Kmart cost Carl Landry, a guy we couldn't match.

I guess we could have potentially traded Ray for Jared Jeffries and some draft picks, but I don't think it makes sense to totally blow up the team's championship hopes, as slim as they appear to be now.

Kevin Martin??

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4923777

The Rockets seemingly put this together over night

Is McGrady/Landry/Dorsey are that much different than Allen/Davis/Scal

And that happened over night

Of course it is. Plus, remember that Davis is a BYC player and that much harder to trade.

If we're trading him with Ray Allen's deal it becomes a lot easier to deal with his BYC status.

[Roy Hobbs]

If BBD and Landry are near-equals, maybe we can get Sacramento to move him to us for BBD and a #2.  That sounds fair.

[Fafnir]

If BBD and Landry are near-equals, maybe we can get Sacramento to move him to us for BBD and a #2.  That sounds fair.

They're similar players defensively and rebounding wise (though BBD has been better this year at rebounding).

Landry is just so much more efficient on the offensive end, plus he's never been accused of being immature to the point that it hurts his team.

[PLamb]

Remopve this year out of the equation, a year in which Landry got 29 MPG and Davis was hurt and saw a very limited role and they are virtually the same player statistically

[BudweiserCeltic]

Remopve this year out of the equation, a year in which Landry got 29 MPG and Davis was hurt and saw a very limited role and they are virtually the same player statistically

Come on, how can you say this with a straight face? While we're at it, let's also remove Landry's portion that was affected by him being hurt. Seems fair to me.

[Fafnir]

Remopve this year out of the equation, a year in which Landry got 29 MPG and Davis was hurt and saw a very limited role and they are virtually the same player statistically

No they're not:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tiny.cgi?id=BXgoK

They are both third year players. Why is Carl Landry's PER at 20 and every statistic better for him? Adjusted +/-, Wins Produced, Win Shares, PER, and Efficiency all tell the same story. Landry is a better player than BBD. When every advanced stat, raw stat, and one player has had his maturity questioned I think its hard to argue.

[PLamb]

Rebound percentage over three years Landry's is decreasing  Davis' increasing

Rebounds per 40 Landry's constantly decreasing Davis increasing

Assist percentage Davis better

Assist per 40 Davis better

Turnover percentage Landry better

Landry is a much more effective player under the basket, no doubt, scoring wise

He is also better at the FT line

But as a defensive presence and rebounding big Baby is a better player but has a different set of offensive skills than Landry and going forward I think will be just as effective a player

Remember my question was was the Allen/Davis/Scal package all that much worse than the McGrady/Landry/Dorsey package not Landry and Davis specifically

Yesterday Roy and Faf asked who could have been gotten by Ainge

The answer today, Kevin Martin

Maybe Ainge just constantly lowballed Sactown

Maybe Ainge should have been more amenable to taking on bad contracts

Maybe Ainge should have included a first round pick or two

I don't know

I wasn't privy to the discussions

Neither were you

But Martin was available and Ainge could have done something and didn't

[Fafnir]

You think assist percentage and assists per 40 is important for a big man? Compared to shooting percentage, greater defensive ability, and better free throw shooting?  Talk about rebounding "trends" but they have shown the same rebounding prowess over three years. Keep digging in your heels if you'd like, but Landry is the better player and you know it.

Could Danny have sweetened the pot? Maybe, but the Kings wanted a front court player. What makes you think they wouldn't demand Perkins? Especially when they have the Rockets out there offering a better prospect than BBD.

You're angry because you've lost hope for this year and a trade was the way out of it, a way for the Celtics to still win. It doesn't look like it is going to happen, so of course its "someone's" fault.

We all knew Kevin Martin, Iggy, Amar'e, and Luol Deng have all been "shopped" this year. I don't think Danny ever had much of a chance to get any of them.