Boston, FA destination & Danny Ainge

[ScoobyDoo]

First I want to credit Greanbean and Dlpin for giving me the idea for this post, TP's to both.

In the thread "The long slow decline" they stated/argued:

Dlpin:
He argued that he does not see a long slow decline at all. He sees expirings coming off the books, decent young core with Rondo, Perk, Baby (bench guy) and alot more flexibility than most teams and that depending on how we handle it we could quite possibly be right up there again alot faster than people think.

I agree and I wanted to comment on Danny Ainge as a GM and part of why I think he is such a good one.

1. He had the courage to come in and completely blow up the team and start around Pierce. This was exactly what needed to be done, and it should have been done by any good GM after they saw Pierce play about half of his rookie season. Antoine should have been immediately shipped out and you start with pierce and lottery picks. That was an obvious call and Ainge eventually got that done.

2. He then took a bunch of those decent draft picks and turned them into banner #17 with the moves for KG and Ray.

3. But more importantly than banner #17 and whether it was pure luck or calculated he did tthree critical things while assembling the team that won #17 and that yes, will likely win another title or two before they are done:

A) He has Ray, Pierce and KG on expiring contracts in consecutive years and all before they hit 35. That is going to build huge momentum for our flexiblity as we come into the Durant free agent class in a few years.

Give me another GM who has recently won a title AND has expiring max contracts in THREE STRAIGHT YEARS.

B) He has also only signed the following to deals that expire this year: Daniels, S. Williams, TAllen, House and Scal, creating additional cap space.

C) Finally and what I think is most critical, is that he had the vision to lock up Perk and Rondo as the bookends for rebuilding as this version of the big three winds down. The point spot and the center spot are arguably the toughest spots to fill on a championship team. We have them in place and they will only be about 26 years old when KG is done.

Name me another GM who can say that and say it without having had the benefit of high lottery picks to accomplish it.

As Red used to say, people don't understand "we are just a few good moves away form being right there again".

While I haven't always liked all of Ainge's little signings and trades( Marbury, RDavis, Mikki Moore, etc. and can't for the life of me understand why he has never gotten at least a decent vet min point guard behind Rondo) he is almost genius as a GM for having put together a championship team while leaving in place the two critical bookends to rebuild with when the first team is done.

Picture these two possible scenarios.

1. Ainge pulls a Red and somehow creates the cap or entices a Joe Johnson or a Dwade to come to Boston this off season. Then as Pierce and KG come off the books in the next big free agent class he perhpas entices Durant or some other young gun to come to Boston and adds in a few mid round draft pick role players and smaller signings.

Just Perkins, Rondo and Wade OR Durant or one young gun with similar talent and you are in contention again.

OR

2. We end up with Perk and Rondo and a couple high lottery picks and then add in some nice vet mid level signings to augment the youth, Perk and Rondo are 28 and we start rolling again.

Point is, depending on how we play it, I only see us possibly "really down" for maybe 2-3 years max. Ainge has put us in a position to accomplish that.   


Greanbean argued:
Boston is a good FA destination. Miami is warm and all that but if you are a Dwade or LeBron level player, do yuo want a half filled stadium? Guys like that want to be on legendary stages. That is why LeBron is for sure at least considering New York, it's the big show. You think KG, if he had his choice would have chosen Minny over Boston or LA for 12 years?

Yeah, it's cold but if you've got cash, you're from the arena to your Range Rover to your house and the Bahamas, LA or Vegas await during the off season. Money being =, I'll go the the legendary stage where I'm part of a huge legacy.

I think any of these guys, the money being realtively equal would prefer to play in Boston or LA for that matter. You don't Durant would love to hang his Jersey after Bird's?

And Ainge has also done a nice job of rebuilding the Celtic mystique and legacy by winning a championship and by having two like KG and Ray here.

Bottom line, if I'm Dwade, LrBron or Bosh, I'm serioulsy considering any shot at LA or Boston or New York; those are the biggest stages where the game is played at the highest levels year in and year out.

And it's why you may well see LeBron and bosh in New York next season.

we're in pretty good position for a rpid re-surgence after KG and Pierce go, it just depends ona  little luck along the way.

I'm optimistic.









 
   






     

[vinnie]

Someone has to explain to me how it is even possible for Danny to create the cap space to bring someone like Joe Johnson or Dwayne Wade here in this offseason. I don't think it can be done.

Second, I am sold on Rondo as a building block, but not Perkins.

I am optimistic, but think we are going to have 2-3 down years before the thing turns around. But it is worth it to me because they won #17.

[MattG12]

Someone has to explain to me how it is even possible for Danny to create the cap space to bring someone like Joe Johnson or Dwayne Wade here in this offseason. I don't think it can be done.

Second, I am sold on Rondo as a building block, but not Perkins.

I am optimistic, but think we are going to have 2-3 down years before the thing turns around. But it is worth it to me because they won #17.

I agree with everything you just said vinnie. TP!

[MattG12]

New York; those are the biggest stages where the game is played at the highest levels year in and year out.

New York plays at the highest level year in an year out? 

[Fred Roberts]

Good post, but with regards to the FA destination point, $ is not equal.

Income tax in FLA is much more advantageous than it is in MA. So the $ is not equal unless the Celts pay more to even it out.

I also agree that Rondo, Baby and Perk are nice building blocks (and I think Walker will be too), but Rondo is the only potential star. I have a feeling that Perk will slow down early (he's already slow) and not be capable of big minutes for that long during his career.

Either way, I'm with you. Ainge has done a great job, and he'll keep us competitive as we rebuild.

[vinnie]

Bill Walker is a building block that basically has not played in his first two years in the NBA.

[LooseCannon]

Someone has to explain to me how it is even possible for Danny to create the cap space to bring someone like Joe Johnson or Dwayne Wade here in this offseason. I don't think it can be done.

Theoretically, Boston could decline to trade Ray Allen during the mid-season and sign-and-trade him in a package with Glen Davis, draft picks, maybe also sign-and-trade Tony Allen in the same deal.  

[ScoobyDoo]

1. I agree it is a long shot that we would sign anyone of LeBron or Wade's caliber this off season. I did preface that statement by saying if Ainge could "somehow how create the cap space or "entices" them to come to Boston.
I agree, I do not think it is "likely" at all but any GM who does not somehow try to grab Wade or LeBron isn't doing his job and crazier things have happened.

2 I disagree re Perkins. One of the best low post defenders in the league and does what very few big men do, bang, rebound and defend with some passion. That is a key part of a championship team and Perk does it just about as well as anyone in the league.

3. I said in my statement that we might have 2-3 years down but I don't see 5-6, so Vinnie I have no idea what why you saying you see us having 2-3 down years and me saying the same thing is a contradiction.

4. To me it is worth the #17. Especially after watching 20 years of abject imcompetance. It has done wonders for the celtic franchise and brought it back to where it should be.

5. Ainge will be the first Gm since Red to build two different championship teams and won't take him that long. He is that good.

6. But I do appreciate the pessimissim, it's always a good method of operation, builds up hope.    

[Roy Hobbs]

Someone has to explain to me how it is even possible for Danny to create the cap space to bring someone like Joe Johnson or Dwayne Wade here in this offseason. I don't think it can be done.

Barring a sign-and-trade, there isn't really a realistic scenario to sign a free agent for more than the MLE.  Even in a sign-and-trade, we don't have a lot of assets to give up, assuming we don't move Rondo.

[vinnie]

1. I agree it is a long shot that we would sign anyone of LeBron or Wade's caliber this off season. I did preface that statement by saying if Ainge could "somehow how create the cap space or "entices" them to come to Boston.
I agree, I do not think it is "likely" at all but any GM who does not somehow try to grab Wade or LeBron isn't doing his job and crazier things have happened.

2 I disagree re Perkins. One of the best low post defenders in the league and does what very few big men do, bang, rebound and defend with some passion. That is a key part of a championship team and Perk does it just about as well as anyone in the league.

3. I said in my statement that we might have 2-3 years down but I don't see 5-6, so Vinnie I have no idea what why you saying you see us having 2-3 down years and me saying the same thing is a contradiction.

4. To me it is worth the #17. Especially after watching 20 years of abject imcompetance. It has done wonders for the celtic franchise and brought it back to where it should be.

5. Ainge will be the first Gm since Red to build two different championship teams and won't take him that long. He is that good.

6. But I do appreciate the pessimissim, it's always a good method of operation, builds up hope.    

Sorry -- did not see you expecting 2-3 years. I guess in the same way you did not see me stating I am OPTIMISTIC, but that I expected 2-3 down years. I still think it is nearly impossible, unless Pierce declines his option year and goes elsewhere and Ray is let go, to sign a big free agent in this offseason. I am not pessimistic, but realistic in terms of how long it is going to take to rebuild the team. If you say 2-3 years, then we are in sync.

As for Perkins, he is an excellent defender against the really big men in the league, which probably number 4 or 5. He has a difficult time with the more mobile centers that anchor most of the teams in the league right now. I would prefer to use Perk as a trading chip this year when his value is highest.

[ScoobyDoo]

Also Vinnie and Matt, I did mistate what I meant about New York playign at the highest level year in and year out. I did mention in the post that LA, Boston and New York( maybe Chicago) are the legendary stages of the NBA, I thought that was understood in the post.

Anyone knows that Boston, LA and New York are the Meccas of basketball. That is what I was talking about.

And it is exactly why LeBron is keeping a real close eye on what's going on there.

It's the history, the crowd, the sixe of the city in New York that will always draw people.

It's obvious that New York hasn't been successful recetnly, but anyone who knows basketball knows it's still an NBA Mecca, the players say it all the time.

My apologies for not making what I meant more easily clear.

[teddykgb]

1. I agree it is a long shot that we would sign anyone of LeBron or Wade's caliber this off season. I did preface that statement by saying if Ainge could "somehow how create the cap space or "entices" them to come to Boston.
I agree, I do not think it is "likely" at all but any GM who does not somehow try to grab Wade or LeBron isn't doing his job and crazier things have happened.

2 I disagree re Perkins. One of the best low post defenders in the league and does what very few big men do, bang, rebound and defend with some passion. That is a key part of a championship team and Perk does it just about as well as anyone in the league.

3. I said in my statement that we might have 2-3 years down but I don't see 5-6, so Vinnie I have no idea what why you saying you see us having 2-3 down years and me saying the same thing is a contradiction.

4. To me it is worth the #17. Especially after watching 20 years of abject imcompetance. It has done wonders for the celtic franchise and brought it back to where it should be.

5. Ainge will be the first Gm since Red to build two different championship teams and won't take him that long. He is that good.

6. But I do appreciate the pessimissim, it's always a good method of operation, builds up hope.    

It's more than a long shot.  It's impossible.  Do you think Cleveland is going to sign and trade Lebron to the Celtics for a now incredibly overpaid Ray Allen and the pu pu platter of Celtics reserves? It's a preposterous proposal.  Danny can "try" in the sense that he can call these teams and get laughed at or call their agents and offer the MLE and get laughed at.

As far as the point about expiring contracts 3 years running, if he doesn't find a way to use Ray's contract in the next hour or so, it's largely moot.  Unless you entertain dismantling this team next year and trading pierce in his final year for a younger player while playing out the string with Garnett and trying to reload for 2012.  Danny is at one hell of a decision point right now.

[Andy Jick]

personally, i think we're going to watch this current team get old and witness the next slow death of the Boston Celtics...

[Roy Hobbs]

personally, i think we're going to watch this current team get old and witness the next slow death of the Boston Celtics...

I think I'd prefer that, followed by a complete rebuild, rather than sustained mediocrity that comes by signing / trading for good but not great players.

[Greenbean]

personally, i think we're going to watch this current team get old and witness the next slow death of the Boston Celtics...

I think I'd prefer that, followed by a complete rebuild, rather than sustained mediocrity that comes by signing / trading for good but not great players.

I would too. And we will not have to wait that long to do so. I can wait two more years for KG to come off the books. Hopefully Pierce signs a reasonable deal. Resigning Ray is not necessary. We dont have to go dormant for another decade, just idle and mediocre for 2 years at the most (if we dont win this year ) Am I missing something?