Author Topic: The Cavs  (Read 7700 times)

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Re: The Cavs
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2010, 10:31:01 AM »

Offline jdpapa3

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the cavs are going to add someone....amare, murphy or jamison. that makes them better right there. plus powe is going to be a playoff factor for them. i also think LBJ is on a mission   plus the east isn't as strong this season

Amare is the only addition that would scare me...Jamison/Murphy/Maggette wouldn't do that.

Re: The Cavs
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2010, 10:32:56 AM »

Offline celticinorlando

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the cavs are going to add someone....amare, murphy or jamison. that makes them better right there. plus powe is going to be a playoff factor for them. i also think LBJ is on a mission   plus the east isn't as strong this season

Amare is the only addition that would scare me...Jamison/Murphy/Maggette wouldn't do that.

murphy scares me the most...he is a legit stretch 4 that can shoot very well outside...which is what the cavs need more than amare. amare is just so LBJ resigns. i expect his impact is more down the road than right now...murphy can help the cavs.

jamison and magette dont really do much for me

Re: The Cavs
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2010, 10:33:18 AM »

Offline Andy Jick

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amare doesn't scare me...  honestly, i think shaq would find a way to screw things up for cleveland.  a few reporters will remind him how he couldn't make it work in phoenix and shaq will provide some off the wall, rapping type of answer and then reality will settle in and the team will implode from within...

hey, we can hope, right?!  :)
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Re: The Cavs
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2010, 10:40:26 AM »

Offline sk7326

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amare doesn't scare me...  honestly, i think shaq would find a way to screw things up for cleveland.  a few reporters will remind him how he couldn't make it work in phoenix and shaq will provide some off the wall, rapping type of answer and then reality will settle in and the team will implode from within...

hey, we can hope, right?!  :)

The Adande piece on espn about Amare working well with Shaq on offense made sense - but defensively the pair on the floor together were a disgrace.  Now Cleveland is a bit more defense friendly ... Phoenix especially after D'Antoni left was a horrendous defensive team.  (D'Antoni's teams with Kurt Thomas actually were quite good)  Amare has not shown a history of being a high effort defender.   


Re: The Cavs
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2010, 10:42:34 AM »

Offline Birdbrain

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Not that I have very much respect for Kerr as a GM but if he traded Amare ( overrated SF ) for Gibson ( an even more overrated player that only dunks similar to Powe ) then there is no hope for Phx as an organization.
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Re: The Cavs
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2010, 10:51:36 AM »

Offline Drucci

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The Cavs were the best team of the regular season last year too. Didn't work well in the playoffs, did it? ::)

Cavs are overrated, they are still a bunch of roleplayers around LeBron. If they add a good player like Jamison they could get really dangerous, but even with a key addition like that, they are not the favorites to win a championship, so no need to panic, and even more now, since they still have the same team (LeBron + roleplayers).

Cavs lost in the Final 4 - because they could not defend Dwight Howard.  Shaq solves that ... he can stand behind Howard and take advantage of Howards tiny legs (like Perk does). 

The Cavs were a 60 win team last year, and are still - Orlando was just a nightmare matchup ... the Cavs have improved their ability to handle that. 

The way they crushed LA on Xmas day says more about their hopes than anything else. 

Cavs had the easier path to the ECF last year, starting with the ridiculous and going nowhere Pistons in the first round. Then they got lucky in the second round because the Hawks were depleted by various injuries to key players in all 4 games. Sure, they swept them, but the series was closer than we tend to remember it, and it would have been a much tougher series for the Cavs had the Hawks been healthy.

It seems that they have improved against Orlando this season but don't forget that they played their first game against Orlando when Lewis was out (big factor), and that they won the second game in the 4th quarter, while Orlando did make a comeback after being down big. They lost in the 4th due to fatigue of the back to back, and Howard dominated Shaq so I don't see their problem as fixed (although I think Hedo was a big advantage for the Magic against the Cavs).

Also, these two games were on a back to back for the Magic while Cleveland had some rest the day before. And between the last 2 meetings remaining against Orlando, the Magic has yet another back to back game against Cleveland. The NBA is favoring Cleveland in their regular season matchups against Orlando.

The beatdown of the Lakers on Christmas Day means nothing (good game by the Cavs, too much complacency from the Lakers, move on), and the Cavs win against the Lakers in Cleveland neither, it's just regular season games. Sure, it's a boost of confidence for Cleveland and huge wins for the homecourt advantage race, but the Lakers still have better players and a better froncourt. If Gasol is still playing soft in the Finals, should these two teams meet, Cleveland would have the edge, but I just don't see Varejao and Shaq dominating Bynum and Gasol like they did in the regular season.

As of today the Cavs still are a bunch of role players coupled with the 2nd best player in the game. Not a recipe for success - in the regular season, yes, in the playoffs... not so much.



Who's #1 btw ... Kobe, Wade, Durant, CP3? 

Kobe, but only on a individual skills comparison, because it's obvious LeBron makes his teammates better while Kobe doesn't.

Re: The Cavs
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2010, 11:12:20 AM »

Offline MMacOH

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The lack of respect for the Cavs is crazy around here.   :)  I am obviously kidding, but I think you guys are underestimating what the Cavs have done this year.

As for last year:  'Lucky' against the Hawks is humorous.  The Cavs swept them.  You mean to honestly tell me that you think the Cavs couldn't have won that series against a 'healthy' Hawks team?

In thinking of Orlando, why don't you think about hwo Orlando wound up beating Boston.  3 point shooting.  Orlando hit a ridiculously hot streak shooting right around game 6 of the Boston series and carried through the Cleveland series.  I think they made better than 45% of their 3s again the Cavs.  Be that as it may, Orlando definitely had the Cavs number.  And it wasn't Howard that beat them, it was Hedu.

Think about who the Cavs were relying on off of their bench last year in the playoffs.  Wally and Big Ben.  They were also relying on Delonte to guard Hedu.  Now think about who the Cavs have of their bench.  Moon, AV, Powe, Z, Delonte.  They are a completely different team this year.

Re: The Cavs
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2010, 11:14:21 AM »

Offline WeMadeIt17

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The cavs do get disrespected here and yes I hate them as much as anyone else here does but right now they are a better team then us.

Re: The Cavs
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2010, 11:21:28 AM »

Offline sk7326

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The Cavs were the best team of the regular season last year too. Didn't work well in the playoffs, did it? ::)

Cavs are overrated, they are still a bunch of roleplayers around LeBron. If they add a good player like Jamison they could get really dangerous, but even with a key addition like that, they are not the favorites to win a championship, so no need to panic, and even more now, since they still have the same team (LeBron + roleplayers).

Cavs lost in the Final 4 - because they could not defend Dwight Howard.  Shaq solves that ... he can stand behind Howard and take advantage of Howards tiny legs (like Perk does). 

The Cavs were a 60 win team last year, and are still - Orlando was just a nightmare matchup ... the Cavs have improved their ability to handle that. 

The way they crushed LA on Xmas day says more about their hopes than anything else. 

Cavs had the easier path to the ECF last year, starting with the ridiculous and going nowhere Pistons in the first round. Then they got lucky in the second round because the Hawks were depleted by various injuries to key players in all 4 games. Sure, they swept them, but the series was closer than we tend to remember it, and it would have been a much tougher series for the Cavs had the Hawks been healthy.

It seems that they have improved against Orlando this season but don't forget that they played their first game against Orlando when Lewis was out (big factor), and that they won the second game in the 4th quarter, while Orlando did make a comeback after being down big. They lost in the 4th due to fatigue of the back to back, and Howard dominated Shaq so I don't see their problem as fixed (although I think Hedo was a big advantage for the Magic against the Cavs).

Also, these two games were on a back to back for the Magic while Cleveland had some rest the day before. And between the last 2 meetings remaining against Orlando, the Magic has yet another back to back game against Cleveland. The NBA is favoring Cleveland in their regular season matchups against Orlando.

The beatdown of the Lakers on Christmas Day means nothing (good game by the Cavs, too much complacency from the Lakers, move on), and the Cavs win against the Lakers in Cleveland neither, it's just regular season games. Sure, it's a boost of confidence for Cleveland and huge wins for the homecourt advantage race, but the Lakers still have better players and a better froncourt. If Gasol is still playing soft in the Finals, should these two teams meet, Cleveland would have the edge, but I just don't see Varejao and Shaq dominating Bynum and Gasol like they did in the regular season.

As of today the Cavs still are a bunch of role players coupled with the 2nd best player in the game. Not a recipe for success - in the regular season, yes, in the playoffs... not so much.



Who's #1 btw ... Kobe, Wade, Durant, CP3? 

Kobe, but only on a individual skills comparison, because it's obvious LeBron makes his teammates better while Kobe doesn't.

Fair enough ... I think LeBron is the best player by a ridiculously large margin ... Magic's court sense and prime Ron Artest's defensive ability in Karl Malone's body - remarkable

Kobe lacks a lot of those skills - but Kobe is a remarkable scorer ... anybody who can score 81 is considerable.

I have a hard time with that "makes his teammates better" angle since most players numbers trend as they do independent of those sorts of externalities. 

Re: The Cavs
« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2010, 02:00:05 PM »

Offline Drucci

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The lack of respect for the Cavs is crazy around here.   :)  I am obviously kidding, but I think you guys are underestimating what the Cavs have done this year.

As for last year:  'Lucky' against the Hawks is humorous.  The Cavs swept them.  You mean to honestly tell me that you think the Cavs couldn't have won that series against a 'healthy' Hawks team?

In thinking of Orlando, why don't you think about hwo Orlando wound up beating Boston.  3 point shooting.  Orlando hit a ridiculously hot streak shooting right around game 6 of the Boston series and carried through the Cleveland series.  I think they made better than 45% of their 3s again the Cavs.  Be that as it may, Orlando definitely had the Cavs number.  And it wasn't Howard that beat them, it was Hedu.

Think about who the Cavs were relying on off of their bench last year in the playoffs.  Wally and Big Ben.  They were also relying on Delonte to guard Hedu.  Now think about who the Cavs have of their bench.  Moon, AV, Powe, Z, Delonte.  They are a completely different team this year.

I've read this argument a lot from Cavs fans and it's just ridiculous. Give props to your opponent instead of claiming they got lucky by getting on a "ridiculously hot stretch from 3". The Magic has relied mostly on its three pointers for the last two years and 4 of their 5 players on the court can all hit 3's. Guess what? They're going to it them at ridiculous rates more often than not because they have shooters from the 1 spot to the 4th. There is no luck or wonders in that, they just have the right players in the right system and it worked really well against Cleveland, so give them some props instead of putting their success on mere luck.

Plus, the fact that they did hit their threes with so much success for  such a long stretch (starting in the Boston series) indicates that it was not a miracle, but something you had to expect.

The fact that Howard did dominate Ilgauskas had a major impact since the Cavs had to double team him, thus leaving Orlando's shooters open from three.

I do agree that Hedo was the biggest difference in that series, though, and the Magic will miss him in the playoffs if they meet Cleveland. Still, Shaq isn't that much of an improvement.

As for the Hawks series, I said that the Cavs got lucky that the Hawks had a lot of injuries to deal with, because otherwise they wouldn't have swept them and they would have had a much tougher time beating them (especially in Atlanta). Still, a sweep is a sweep, but people have easily forgotten how handicaped Atlanta was.

And yes, Cleveland's current bench compared to last year's is better, but not enough to win it all, because LeBron is still surrounded by role players only, and as good as he is, he can't win the championship by himself. Moon, Powe, Parker, etc, are an improvement over Ben Wallace and Sczerbiak but they are still role players, and having only one dominant player, without true lieutenant(s) doesn't get you much further in the playoffs.


Re: The Cavs
« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2010, 02:14:51 PM »

Offline MMacOH

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Call the players whatever you want.  The Cavs play very well together and all fit very well.  You can say it is just Lebron and a bunch of role players, and that is fine.  We'll see how the band of role players handle themselves as the year goes on.

Re: The Cavs
« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2010, 02:23:24 PM »

Offline Chris

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The lack of respect for the Cavs is crazy around here.   :)  I am obviously kidding, but I think you guys are underestimating what the Cavs have done this year.

As for last year:  'Lucky' against the Hawks is humorous.  The Cavs swept them.  You mean to honestly tell me that you think the Cavs couldn't have won that series against a 'healthy' Hawks team?

In thinking of Orlando, why don't you think about hwo Orlando wound up beating Boston.  3 point shooting.  Orlando hit a ridiculously hot streak shooting right around game 6 of the Boston series and carried through the Cleveland series.  I think they made better than 45% of their 3s again the Cavs.  Be that as it may, Orlando definitely had the Cavs number.  And it wasn't Howard that beat them, it was Hedu.

Think about who the Cavs were relying on off of their bench last year in the playoffs.  Wally and Big Ben.  They were also relying on Delonte to guard Hedu.  Now think about who the Cavs have of their bench.  Moon, AV, Powe, Z, Delonte.  They are a completely different team this year.

Well, Orlando didn't just get "hot" against the C's.  What happened was Howard picked up his game, and the C's defense started breaking down, allowing the Magic to get the open looks they were not seeing earlier in the season.

Then against Cleveland, those looks continued to be there, mainly because they were forced to constantly double-team Howard.

But regardless, I do agree that there is a general lack of respect for the Cavs on this site.  But what do you expect, it's a Celticsblog.  I am willing to bet that you would see a similar attitude towards the C's on Cavs blogs during 2008. 

Right now, the Cavs are far and away the favorites to run away with the East.  They are playing better than everyone else, and they have the horses to back it up.  Certainly, things could change, and the C's could climb back up to that level, but right now, the Cavs are at the top of the mountain. 

Re: The Cavs
« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2010, 02:30:38 PM »

Offline Drucci

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Call the players whatever you want.  The Cavs play very well together and all fit very well.  You can say it is just Lebron and a bunch of role players, and that is fine.  We'll see how the band of role players handle themselves as the year goes on.

I'm not denying the fact that the Cavs are playing great right now. And I'm not calling their players "role players" to dismiss them but I'm calling them role players just because this is what they are, and role players disappear 95% of the time in the playoffs when the pressure is on them to perform.

That's what happened last year when LeBron found himsef alone against the Magic because Mo Williams, Ilgauskas, etc, didn't produce enough to win.

So I don't see why adding new role players and replacing former role players by new, better ones makes the Cavs that much better in the playoffs.

Role players are fine for the regular season but not so much for the playoffs - and I guess you won't disagree with me when I say that winning 66 games and dominating the regular season is pointless if you fall really short of a championship in the playoffs.

Re: The Cavs
« Reply #28 on: February 16, 2010, 02:39:30 PM »

Offline celticinorlando

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the cavs would beat boston in 5 if they play in the playoffs...the magic would knock boston out in 6. boston doesn't have enough to win a series vs those 2 teams...they are too old and the bench is weak (esp with eddie house having to defend anyone)

Re: The Cavs
« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2010, 02:48:08 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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The Cavs are more desperate to do something to make Lebron happy.


Plus, they are trading a big contract that is on the bench vs. the starting SG the Celtics have to offer.


Not to mention Amare fits their needs, he does not fit the Celtics needs.