If no serious trade goes through and we continue with Ray...

[greg_kite]

this team was built to win from 2007-2008 until now. after this season, the injuries, the disappointing season so far...i think danny has to look to the future. i am a realist...and there is no way this team as it stands will win the east...esp with the cavs getting amare. look to bringing in young players at some point

but with no capspace they have no means to bring in young players. Unless Danny is prepared to unload Pierce, they have only one move and that is to re-sign Ray and ride this thing out with GPA.

Rebuilding will begin after KGs contract is up.

That's why I think Danny has to do everything possible to move Ray at this point. It's the only real way to keep this team as a legit contender for the next few years.

The other way is to re-sign Ray.

and that is what makes this summer so scary. the big 3 just don't have enough left to carry us for 2 more seasons. there needs to be a bridge so when KG etc fall off the books, they aren't just a horrible team. i don't want to resign ray allen in the off season to anything more than a 1 year deal. they don't need to tie up more years with the big three.

 it makes sense to trade ray now....but i dont see any real legit deals that help this team.

I'm actually not that worried about being bad in the post Pierce/KG years. We'll be bad and we will rebuild. That's the NBA.

The plan has been to ride out GPA ever since we signed them, but this season is showing that  GPA might not be enough to make a run at the Title, and that's the reason Danny IMO is looking to move Ray...because he knows that his only other option to re-sign Ray in the off season.

With GPA, we certainly are looking at two or three rounds of the playoffs, but Ray's contract, if used wisely, could be used to move us to being a more legit Title contender.

I just think are two realistic moves here, and we'll know by Thurs. which way Danny is choosing to go.

i agree...that is why standing pat and not making a trade for ray not only pretty much guarentees an early playoff exit this year....it really hurts next season as well

yeah, then again maybe KG legitimately is having problems with his shins and will be heading back to a healthier place next season.

the other thing to keep in mind is that this CLE situation could go very badly and end up with LeBron going elsewhere. Then we become a stable veteran team at the head of the pack.

I mean, the biggest problem with the Cs continues to be KGs knee/leg and I'm not totally ready to say that won't improve...either this year or next.

You bring up an excellent point.  Joe Johnson could leave Atlanta over the summer and take them out of contention.  Cleveland could lose Lebron and Amare.  The only question is where do these guys end up?  Does Miami, NJ or Chicago become a new dynasty with a free agent or two?

That would leave Orlando, Boston and team X that gets two of the max free agents as contenders in the East.  Rondo and Perk could still improve, KG and Sheed will still be 7 feet each and PP will still be better than most wing men in the league.  If we can turn Ray around into a younger player we could stay in contention for a while.

EEE GAAH DAAH LAAAH -CLAP-CLAP-CLAP,CLAP,CLAP

[celticinorlando]

i am all for getting joe johnson back

[hooray]

the window closes this season.
cle and atl are getting BETTER and we are getting WORSE. 
danny has 1 year to make some moves before the CBA expires and all bets are off.

[bopna]

i am all for getting joe johnson back
[/quote ]

But how???, and speaking of JJ, what on earth is wrong with this guy, what is his motive for jumping teams everytime he finished his contract, Is he in it for the money like when he jumped ship from Phoenix to Atlanta, or does he want to be the man to build around with, which he already is with the Hawks..If he leaves, then what does he really intend to do, be a stat stuffer or contend on a large market team, coz it still seems to me he is motivated by $$$.

He should really start thinking of his legacy than just the money...I would love to have JJ back, but he sure gets me the impression that he certainly does not want to play second fiddle to PP, KG or even Rondo.

[Jon]

One thing to make everyone feel better:

http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusminus/plusminus_sort.jsp?pcomb=5&season=22009&split=9&team=

That's right, the best 5 man lineup in the league as far as +/- is concerned is Perk/KG/PP/Ray/Rondo.  Then what gives?  Over the past two months, they haven't played together all that much. 

Let's see what happens after the all star break.  Even this year, it's clear when they're healthy that they a starting 5 (and it would now appear the bench with Daniels back) to be a legit contender. 

[BballTim]

One thing to make everyone feel better:

http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusminus/plusminus_sort.jsp?pcomb=5&season=22009&split=9&team=

That's right, the best 5 man lineup in the league as far as +/- is concerned is Perk/KG/PP/Ray/Rondo.  Then what gives?  Over the past two months, they haven't played together all that much. 

Let's see what happens after the all star break.  Even this year, it's clear when they're healthy that they a starting 5 (and it would now appear the bench with Daniels back) to be a legit contender. 

  It's also the case that we're still #1 in defense. Things aren't as bleak as people are making it out to be.

[greg_kite]

One thing to make everyone feel better:

http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusminus/plusminus_sort.jsp?pcomb=5&season=22009&split=9&team=

That's right, the best 5 man lineup in the league as far as +/- is concerned is Perk/KG/PP/Ray/Rondo.  Then what gives?  Over the past two months, they haven't played together all that much. 

Let's see what happens after the all star break.  Even this year, it's clear when they're healthy that they a starting 5 (and it would now appear the bench with Daniels back) to be a legit contender. 

When will they all be healthy though?  And they can't play 48 minutes every game either.  They probably only play about 24 minutes together each game.

[Jon]

One thing to make everyone feel better:

http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusminus/plusminus_sort.jsp?pcomb=5&season=22009&split=9&team=

That's right, the best 5 man lineup in the league as far as +/- is concerned is Perk/KG/PP/Ray/Rondo.  Then what gives?  Over the past two months, they haven't played together all that much. 

Let's see what happens after the all star break.  Even this year, it's clear when they're healthy that they a starting 5 (and it would now appear the bench with Daniels back) to be a legit contender. 

When will they all be healthy though?  And they can't play 48 minutes every game either.  They probably only play about 24 minutes together each game.

True.  But it looks like they'll all finally be healthy after the All Star break.  And if not, Danny has already shown the patience to rest them until they are healthy.  So come playoff time, it's pretty darn likely they'll all be close to 100%. 

And this is also the first time all year the bench has been 100%.  The first 1/3 of the season BBD was out, the second 1/3 Daniels was.  Now they all look to be back with an improved and developed Tony Allen. 

I'm not happy with how things have gone the past two months, but I don't get this mentality that they can't improve.  As the stat I posted demonstrated, when this team is healthy, they're still a legit contender. 

[guava_wrench]

i am all for getting joe johnson back

But how???, and speaking of JJ, what on earth is wrong with this guy, what is his motive for jumping teams everytime he finished his contract, Is he in it for the money like when he jumped ship from Phoenix to Atlanta, or does he want to be the man to build around with, which he already is with the Hawks..If he leaves, then what does he really intend to do, be a stat stuffer or contend on a large market team, coz it still seems to me he is motivated by $$$.

He should really start thinking of his legacy than just the money...I would love to have JJ back, but he sure gets me the impression that he certainly does not want to play second fiddle to PP, KG or even Rondo.

Huh?

JJ has changed teams as a free agent exactly ONE time. He was traded to Phx. That was not his doing. And of course he went to Atlanta in the sign and trade. Phoenix was not offering him similar money. Atl also clearly believed in him. Now Atl is better than Phx. How can that move be faulted?

As far as JJ playing second fiddle, why would he on the Celtics? Is anyone here better than him at this point, at least on offense?

[Who]

Sign Ray to a 3 year deal? Ray is going to be offered a 1 year deal with a team option for a 2nd.

Ray Allen will get at least a two year contract and be overpaid for those two years to avoid giving a third.

There are still other teams in the league who would love to sign Ray to a Rasheed Wallace like contract this summer with their MLE.

[greg_kite]

One thing to make everyone feel better:

http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusminus/plusminus_sort.jsp?pcomb=5&season=22009&split=9&team=

That's right, the best 5 man lineup in the league as far as +/- is concerned is Perk/KG/PP/Ray/Rondo.  Then what gives?  Over the past two months, they haven't played together all that much. 

Let's see what happens after the all star break.  Even this year, it's clear when they're healthy that they a starting 5 (and it would now appear the bench with Daniels back) to be a legit contender. 

When will they all be healthy though?  And they can't play 48 minutes every game either.  They probably only play about 24 minutes together each game.

True.  But it looks like they'll all finally be healthy after the All Star break.  And if not, Danny has already shown the patience to rest them until they are healthy.  So come playoff time, it's pretty darn likely they'll all be close to 100%. 

And this is also the first time all year the bench has been 100%.  The first 1/3 of the season BBD was out, the second 1/3 Daniels was.  Now they all look to be back with an improved and developed Tony Allen. 

I'm not happy with how things have gone the past two months, but I don't get this mentality that they can't improve.  As the stat I posted demonstrated, when this team is healthy, they're still a legit contender. 

I've lost my optimism over the last few weeks but you do have a good point.  It has seemed like age has caught up to them, but they could be hiding minor injuries that could go away soon.  If they could play like they did at the beginning of the year then I believe they could beat anybody.  I just hope they can get healthy and stay healthy.

[guava_wrench]

this team was built to win from 2007-2008 until now. after this season, the injuries, the disappointing season so far...i think danny has to look to the future. i am a realist...and there is no way this team as it stands will win the east...esp with the cavs getting amare. look to bringing in young players at some point

but with no capspace they have no means to bring in young players. Unless Danny is prepared to unload Pierce, they have only one move and that is to re-sign Ray and ride this thing out with GPA.

Rebuilding will begin after KGs contract is up.

That's why I think Danny has to do everything possible to move Ray at this point. It's the only real way to keep this team as a legit contender for the next few years.

The other way is to re-sign Ray.

and that is what makes this summer so scary. the big 3 just don't have enough left to carry us for 2 more seasons. there needs to be a bridge so when KG etc fall off the books, they aren't just a horrible team. i don't want to resign ray allen in the off season to anything more than a 1 year deal. they don't need to tie up more years with the big three.

 it makes sense to trade ray now....but i dont see any real legit deals that help this team.

I'm actually not that worried about being bad in the post Pierce/KG years. We'll be bad and we will rebuild. That's the NBA.

The plan has been to ride out GPA ever since we signed them, but this season is showing that  GPA might not be enough to make a run at the Title, and that's the reason Danny IMO is looking to move Ray...because he knows that his only other option to re-sign Ray in the off season.

With GPA, we certainly are looking at two or three rounds of the playoffs, but Ray's contract, if used wisely, could be used to move us to being a more legit Title contender.

I just think are two realistic moves here, and we'll know by Thurs. which way Danny is choosing to go.

i agree...that is why standing pat and not making a trade for ray not only pretty much guarentees an early playoff exit this year....it really hurts next season as well

yeah, then again maybe KG legitimately is having problems with his shins and will be heading back to a healthier place next season.

the other thing to keep in mind is that this CLE situation could go very badly and end up with LeBron going elsewhere. Then we become a stable veteran team at the head of the pack.

I mean, the biggest problem with the Cs continues to be KGs knee/leg and I'm not totally ready to say that won't improve...either this year or next.

You bring up an excellent point.  Joe Johnson could leave Atlanta over the summer and take them out of contention.  Cleveland could lose Lebron and Amare.  The only question is where do these guys end up?  Does Miami, NJ or Chicago become a new dynasty with a free agent or two?

That would leave Orlando, Boston and team X that gets two of the max free agents as contenders in the East.  Rondo and Perk could still improve, KG and Sheed will still be 7 feet each and PP will still be better than most wing men in the league.  If we can turn Ray around into a younger player we could stay in contention for a while.

EEE GAAH DAAH LAAAH -CLAP-CLAP-CLAP,CLAP,CLAP

If Perk can improve, I guess that means Lebron can improve. Lebron is a month younger.

KG will still be 7 ft, but his jump will have shed a few inches.

[Reyquila]

Why are we not considering bringing back Toine, Candyman, and Payton for the final stretch? We still have the Big Three? Maybe thats the minor twick we need to make. Nothing else seems to be on the table.

[MF Doom]

Why are we not considering bringing back Toine, Candyman, and Payton for the final stretch? We still have the Big Three? Maybe thats the minor twick we need to make. Nothing else seems to be on the table.

lol Isn't Antoine in jail or something? Payton couldn't even keep a job on NBA TV. Candyman is on the wrong end of ESPN'S Top 10 Plays every other day it seems

[clover]

Yeah, but only 3 other teams have had a combo playing nearly as many minutes as them.  Look to the last column at the +/- per minute:  the C's starters average .275 whereas the Cavaliers alone have  combos over 1.0.  The C's starters' +/- efficiency is actually pretty low.

One thing to make everyone feel better:

http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusminus/plusminus_sort.jsp?pcomb=5&season=22009&split=9&team=

That's right, the best 5 man lineup in the league as far as +/- is concerned is Perk/KG/PP/Ray/Rondo.  Then what gives?  Over the past two months, they haven't played together all that much. 

Let's see what happens after the all star break.  Even this year, it's clear when they're healthy that they a starting 5 (and it would now appear the bench with Daniels back) to be a legit contender.