Danny...Go Get Troy Murphy!

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pass

[pearljammer10]

seriously?

yep...because danny will wimp out and do nothing.  so he might as well target a couple role players...

  Yes, Danny always wimps out when it comes to trading...

Haha, yes wimpy old Danny...

Do you really think Danny would trade for a shmuck like Troy Murphy? Look at the teams he has played for... He puts up mediocre stats on horrible teams... Role player? I'd say not good player that bad teams use to fill a roster spot.

[Potapenko Boxout]

seriously?

yep...because danny will wimp out and do nothing.  so he might as well target a couple role players...

  Yes, Danny always wimps out when it comes to trading...

Haha, yes wimpy old Danny...

Do you really think Danny would trade for a shmuck like Troy Murphy? Look at the teams he has played for... He puts up mediocre stats on horrible teams... Role player? I'd say not good player that bad teams use to fill a roster spot.

Troy Murphy would be better than any non-starting big man we have.

The eye test and look at stats, etc. Thanks

[Fafnir]

seriously?

yep...because danny will wimp out and do nothing.  so he might as well target a couple role players...

  Yes, Danny always wimps out when it comes to trading...

Haha, yes wimpy old Danny...

Do you really think Danny would trade for a shmuck like Troy Murphy? Look at the teams he has played for... He puts up mediocre stats on horrible teams... Role player? I'd say not good player that bad teams use to fill a roster spot.

Troy Murphy would be better than any non-starting big man we have.

The eye test and look at stats, etc. Thanks

Troy Murphy gets you stats, but doesn't help you win. Take a look at his adjusted +/- at basketballvalue.com.

Wayne Winston has him even worse at a -14.

If you don't believe in advanced stats, here is a great break down of why he wouldn't help the Cavs.

1.Stoudemire (great frontcourt: James+Stoudemire+Varejão - top contender for many years)
2.Jamison
3.West (small, unimportant improvement)
4.Murphy (would Murphy actually improve them? Another slow big who doesn't defend and can't create his shot?)

Murphy improves them.  Slow, not great defensively but at least high effort (hey, it works for Ray Allen).  Him not creating his own shot is a non-issue.  He is able to score without needing touches.  With his excellent 3 pt shooting and remarkable rebounding ability (led PFs in defensive rebounding a year ago) - he makes that offense work in a way that Big Z can't anymore.  He's no worse defensively than Z.

Jamison would help a lot - but also poor defensively.  Really it's close.  Amare would help - but he is a poor EFFORT defender and whines when he does not get touches.  Cavs will have to evaluate him fully.  David West is not a huge improvement - since most of his shots are elbow jumpers - and you need to hit them at Dirk's rate to be a star.

I disagree about Murphy.

Offensively - I think his inability to create shots (illustrated by a funny statistical oddity: every single one of his 358 3pt shots from last season was assisted) is an issue because lacking of reliable shot-creators has been one of the biggest problems for the Cavaliers in the past few years - ultimately that forces them to resort to a self-absorbed LeBron dominating the ball and everyone else playing off him, standing and watch. And Murphy is the prototypical stand and watch player - unlike, say, a guy like Bargnani who may look a similar player but can actually create assists for his teammates by moving off the ball. A huge percentage of Murphy looks are off the pick'n'pop and the transition 3, as a result of him being the trailer. So, Murphy is a player that often disappears of games in 4th quarters because defences tighten up. His lack of a single post move also means that teams can defend him with a much smaller player. I'm not sure how much the Cavs offence improves with another spectator catch'n'shooter. 

I never thought Murphy is a good passer - he may not be a bad passer, but why exactly is he a good one? I guess he's been putting decent assist numbers, but that's merely a product of O'Brien's tendency to have bigs holding the ball in the pinch post, passing the ball to baseline/sidescreens cutters. Check his numbers pre/post O'Brien and compare them to Jeff Foster's numbers also pre/post O'Brien, for example. A great passing big man is a guy like Kevin Garnett, a good one is someone like Andrew Bogut. Murphy is average/passable at best. His inability to make the entry pass and be a post feeder has always irked me.

Defender - I think Murphy's defensive effort is sporadic and erratic. In any case, effort brings his defence up from terrifying to really bad. I completely disagree he's a better defender than Ilgauskas. At least the Lithuanian is still a decent post defender and a good rim protector. Murphy is just plain bad all across the spectrum. More importantly, he's the exact opposite of the kind of player that would improve Cleveland's defence: an athletic, quick big who could cover perimeter oriented bigs and defend the pick'n'roll. He's just as slow as Shaq/Z with the downside of not being as good defending the low post and blocking shots. We've seen how pathetic is the Pacers interior defence when Murphy and Hibbert are playing together. No reason to believe it'd be different in Cleveland. Plus, his tendency to lumber up and down the floor when changing ends makes him a liability defending the transition. He's a sieve. One of the worst defenders among starting big men in the league.

Rebounder - Even if you see Murphy as a top rebounder, how much does that help the Cavs? They're already the best/2nd best defensive rebounding team in the league, I doubt there's margin to improve there, especially considering Murphy would take minutes from other good rebounders. The law of diminishing returns applies to rebounding.

Plus, although this may be seen as odd, I think Murphy is grossly overrated as a rebounder - he's good, but not as good as his numbers seem to indicate. He's a very selfish rebounder and not only in the classic sense of positioning himself to rebound at the cost of defending, a la Camby/Forston. Very often I've noticed that Murphy literally takes away rebounds of his teammates hands. So often than I've actually noticed it. Mind you: I understand that good rebounders are necessarily selfish and end up taking rebounds from his teammates hands. It's just part of the mentality. But with Murphy is different - it happens a lot and he goes out of his way to put his hands on completely safe balls.

Notice how the Pacers rebounding numbers hardly suffer when Murphy is off the floor - in fact, this season the Pacers are a better rebounding team without Murphy! And this is a team whose 2nd best rebounder is a guy like Hibbert, Hansbrough or Solomon Jones - all of them average/bellow par rebounders and this being generous. Even last season when Murphy lead the league in Def. RR, the Pacers defensive RR with him on the floor was only 0.1% better. That's amazing. It shows that Murphy just collects a lot of rebounds that his teammates would get anyway - even though his teammates aren't good rebounders.

So, no, I don't think that Murphy adds a lot to the Cavs - I believe the effort of working him into the rotation may very well upset what he brings to the table. Trying to be as sympathetic as possible, it's a very lateral move.

[Andy Jick]

danny has never worked in this kind of situation in which his owner is now thinking about the bottom line (ie. $$$).  in the past danny has tried to get this team to the top...now he's trying to stop them from sliding into mediocrity.  this is new territory for him, and it sounds like he's getting cold feet to do anything to stop that slide, partly because wyc has financial reservations.

i'd rather see troy murphy on this team because it FORCES rasheed to play on the low block.  maybe 'sheed floats around the perimeter out of necessity.  imagine murphy and 'sheed playing together in the second unit, along with daniels... 

murphy is an outstanding spot-up shooter with good 3 pt. marksmanship.  'sheed now plays down low where he can't be stopped when he puts his head to it.

you guys can mock me all you want, but i like murphy.

and this argument that he's played for losing teams is funny to me...  there are guys all over the nba who can't win for a variety of reasons.  afterall, Garnett was such a winner when we brought him to boston, right?

[Fafnir]

Garnett was such a winner when we brought him to boston, right?

Garnett has done a lot more than Troy Murphy.

He'd help the team, but not enough to be worth the cost of trading for him and payroll limitations he'd cause us.

Rasheed and Murphy would be one of the worst defensive front courts in the league. Zero quickness at all. That's not a lineup I'd use.

[Andy Jick]

Garnett was such a winner when we brought him to boston, right?

Garnett has done a lot more than Troy Murphy.

He'd help the team, but not enough to be worth the cost of trading for him and payroll limitations he'd cause us.

Rasheed and Murphy would be one of the worst defensive front courts in the league. Zero quickness at all. That's not a lineup I'd use.

we'll agree to disagree on this.  i don't think those two playing together would be terrible (the "zero quickness" comment isn't totally true because i think they both play solid "help" defense on the weakside).  murphy only has 1 year remaining on his contract after this one (i believe) so i don't understand your "payroll limitations" comment.  i think you've entrenched yourself firmly and you're just looking for things to get nitpicky about.

murphy is better than scalabrine, glen davis or s. williams and would cause minimal long-term payroll issues and would be a nice fit in doc's offense. 

but if we don't get him, trust me i won't be heartbroken...  this was just a suggestion because the other things i'm reading about make no sense or are not in the realm of reality.  picking up murphy made more sense to me...  if danny sees (in his eyes) this team being a championship caliber team (that's not my assessment, but his) then GM's don't blow those kind of teams up...they just add a few pieces...

[winsomme]

I don't have a problem targeting Murphy, but not using Ray to get him. If we trade Ray, I think we need to get players that have a greater possibility of impacting the team.

Add in a Brandon Rush and I might start thinking...

[Fafnir]

Garnett was such a winner when we brought him to boston, right?

Garnett has done a lot more than Troy Murphy.

He'd help the team, but not enough to be worth the cost of trading for him and payroll limitations he'd cause us.

Rasheed and Murphy would be one of the worst defensive front courts in the league. Zero quickness at all. That's not a lineup I'd use.

we'll agree to disagree on this.  i don't think those two playing together would be terrible (the "zero quickness" comment isn't totally true because i think they both play solid "help" defense on the weakside). 

No they don't, both are very slow to rotate on weakside help. I'm not sure what games you are watching but Wallace is our slowest help defender. (He's old!)

murphy only has 1 year remaining on his contract after this one (i believe) so i don't understand your "payroll limitations" comment.

If we trade expiring contracts for Troy Murphy we likely will not be able to freely spend the MLE and resign Ray Allen. So we'd be left to fill in backups for the 1, 2, 3 with cheaper players. That's a serious problem, just splitting the MLE two ways and then a veteran's minimum would probably be our best case scenario.

i think you've entrenched yourself firmly and you're just looking for things to get nitpicky about.

I'm not being nitpicky, unless disagreeing with you is "nitpicky".

murphy is better than scalabrine, glen davis or s. williams and would cause minimal long-term payroll issues and would be a nice fit in doc's offense.

Long term isn't the issue, I'm concerned about this year and next year. Troy Murphy doesn't help use enough to make his acquisition worth the cost, both in assets this year and the opportunity cost next year.

Have you read scoop's breakdown of Murphy's game? I suggest you do, he's a role player who's paid like Rajon Rondo.

[More Banners]

I very highly doubt there would be a trade for Murphy at all, but if one happened, I think he would not be the only player coming in.  Rush or Dahntay Jones, possibly Ford as well, and perhaps a 2nd rounder as thanks for cap relief?

[the_Bird]

Use Ray Allen's contract to bring  back an impact player on the wings.  Troy Murphy would be our best big man off the bench, but wouldn't give up anything of real value for him.  Lots of money for not that great a player; if they're going to overpay for a role player, I'd rather overpay for someone like Nooch to get ahold of Kevin Martin.  They aren't going to take on a bad contract just to marginally improve the team. 

Troy kinda reminds me of Raef, but with better rebounding.  Slow, good shooter, stretch the floor, bad D, massively overpaid.