Rebounding/Defending the Rim/Personnel Moves

[winsomme]

For me, rebounding and defending the paint are the main issues with this team right now. So, trading away front court depth for a back up PG like Augustin is crazy to me.

With KG struggling to get his legs under him, Perk having inexplicable lapses, Sheed being seemingly allergic to the low post, and Shelden's only input being via his Twitter account, I am very perplexed at what seems to be happening with the team right now and moves that are on the horizon.

I'm again frustrated by the decision to not re-up Leon right out of the gate. His energy on the blocks is EXACTLY what this team needs right now. Just the thought of him almost coming back to the floor would be a rallying point for the team.

I'm still hopeful that we don't know Danny's full plan here, but the way things are taking shape leaves me very concerned...about this season and future seasons.

In big games, we just are not able to control the paint right now. IMO it is essential to control the paint. And combining not signing Leon with trading away Baby for an offensive minded back up PG is antithetical to controlling the paint and thus winning in the playoffs.

We need to be strengthening our post presence, not weakening it.

[Fafnir]

Powe wasn't a post presence though. You couldn't run offense for him or through him because of his lack of post moves and utter inability to pass out of the post. (he was worse than Perk at passing out)

He also wasn't a defensive big man of the type you were talking about, Powe took charges. He rarely blocked shots are defended the rim, his rotations and help weren't anything special either.

What was special about Powe was his rebounding and free throw rate (usually off those offensive boards or interior passing). In particular his ability to get offensive boards was huge for this team. But he would not have fixed the other two issues you highlight. He was an out of zone rebounder though, we sorely need a player like that right now.

[Drucci]

Yeah, I agree.

As much as I like that Augustin/Baby swap for our future (when you think about it, it would be huge because we would have a good to great backup PG secured for the next three years at a cheap price - rookie contract -), I don't understand why Danny would trade a big for a guard, especially since, for the short term, we will be fine with Marquis handling the PG duties with the 2nd unit.

Baby has been disappointing this season but we've seen in the last couple of games that he is starting to get back into his shape of last season, starting to hit his shot again, and he rebounds very well, especially with the offensive boards.

Sure, he will always be "small" and get blocked often but he brings a lot of energy and boards, while being a capable offensive threat. We need young legs in the froncourt.

That's why I'm against this trade, but I think it only makes sense to do it if Danny knows he will get a froncourt addition soon. I'm guessing the most likely scenario, according to the rumors we've heard over the past few months, would be that he knows he can trade Ray to Sacramento to get Martin and Nocioni. Thus he would have Martin taking Ray's spot in the starting 5 and Nociono playing at power forward off the bench.

With that said... if Danny trades Davis for Augustin, I really hope he has something planned behind that move, to improve our froncourt depth. I know you can argue that in the playoffs Davis wouldn't see much playing time anyway, but the same can be said for Augustin, and big men are always more useful in the playoffs because of foul trouble or possible injuries, not to mention matchups.

On the other hand, does it make sense to trade Davis for a PG, while expecting to sign/trade a big man just after? Wouldn't it make more sense to acquire the big man first and then trade Davis? Because if your second move suddenly doesn't work, you're screwed in the froncourt.

It seems obvious than having a good froncourt rotation like KG-Perk/Sheed-Baby + potentially Shelden will be more useful in the playoffs against Shaq-Hickson/Varejao-Ilgauskas, Howard-Lewis/Gortat-Bass than a Rondo/Augustin backcourt against the other backcourts.

[winsomme]

Powe wasn't a post presence though. You couldn't run offense for him or through him because of his lack of post moves and utter inability to pass out of the post. (he was worse than Perk at passing out)

He also wasn't a defensive big man of the type you were talking about, Powe took charges. He rarely blocked shots are defended the rim, his rotations and help weren't anything special either.

What was special about Powe was his rebounding and free throw rate (usually off those offensive boards or interior passing). In particular his ability to get offensive boards was huge for this team. But he would not have fixed the other two issues you highlight.

taking charges is defending the rim IMO. Offensive rebounding is too. You can't keep giving teams second and third shots at scoring. It has to be one and done.

whatever you think about Leon's ability to score on the blocks, the guy LIVED down there. He lived and breathed the low post and he fought tooth and nail for every inch in probably the most difficult place to play on the floor.

That's what we need more of, not less of.....Losing Leon and now possibly Baby (added to the other elements I mentioned) and our post presence will be almost nonexistent. way too porous.

I agree with you about shot blocking, but there is more than one way to defend the rim.

as for moves mentioned (suggested), Hinrich (Deng) + Thomas is probably the most interesting to me based on what it could do for our defense, but a move like Baby for DJ is taking us in the exact wrong direction.

[winsomme]

Yeah, I agree.

As much as I like that Augustin/Baby swap for our future (when you think about it, it would be huge because we would have a good to great backup PG secured for the next three years at a cheap price - rookie contract -), I don't understand why Danny would trade a big for a guard, especially since, for the short term, we will be fine with Marquis handling the PG duties with the 2nd unit.

Baby has been disappointing this season but we've seen in the last couple of games that he is starting to get back into his shape of last season, starting to hit his shot again, and he rebounds very well, especially with the offensive boards.

Sure, he will always be "small" and get blocked often but he brings a lot of energy and boards, while being a capable offensive threat. We need young legs in the froncourt.

That's why I'm against this trade, but I think it only makes sense to do it if Danny knows he will get a froncourt addition soon. I'm guessing the most likely scenario, according to the rumors we've heard over the past few months, would be that he knows he can trade Ray to Sacramento to get Martin and Nocioni. Thus he would have Martin taking Ray's spot in the starting 5 and Nociono playing at power forward off the bench.

With that said... if Danny trades Davis for Augustin, I really hope he has something planned behind that move, to improve our froncourt depth. I know you can argue that in the playoffs Davis wouldn't see much playing time anyway, but the same can be said for Augustin, and big men are always more useful in the playoffs because of foul trouble or possible injuries, not to mention matchups.

On the other hand, does it make sense to trade Davis for a PG, while expecting to sign/trade a big man just after? Wouldn't it make more sense to acquire the big man first and then trade Davis? Because if your second move suddenly doesn't work, you're screwed in the froncourt.

It seems obvious than having a good froncourt rotation like KG-Perk/Sheed-Baby + potentially Shelden will be more useful in the playoffs against Shaq-Hickson/Varejao-Ilgauskas, Howard-Lewis/Gortat-Bass than a Rondo/Augustin backcourt against the other backcourts.

Talent-wise I actually think we win an Augustin for Baby trade. and DJ would be a great little scoring threat for us off the bench to add to Daniels and Sheed.

But given the state of our bigs, the move (in isolation) especially for this season is a step backwards.

I would feel much better about it if we had Leon in the wings and I will feel better about it if it is part of other moves that shore up the post.

Then again, making A LOT of moves at this point could pose chemistry problems that would need to be fixed in a short amount of time....I don't know, let's see what happens. But my biggest concern right now for this team is rebounding and defending the paint.

[PLamb]

I think trading Davis, for whatever Danny can get, is something that has to happen

I believe that when Rondo was talking aboutpeople in the locker room with different agendas, he was talking about Davis

I think the whole team coaching staff and front office has become tired of his act and part of the rush to hush up Rondo was to stop him from naming Davis and causing his trade value to plummet, not that it was that high to begin with

If Davis goes, and I am certain he is gone, I would expect Boston going after a replacement using their expirings like Scal, Tony, Eddie and Walker

[winsomme]

I think trading Davis, for whatever Danny can get, is something that has to happen

I believe that when Rondo was talking aboutpeople in the locker room with different agendas, he was talking about Davis

I think the whole team coaching staff and front office has become tired of his act and part of the rush to hush up Rondo was to stop him from naming Davis and causing his trade value to plummet, not that it was that high to begin with

If Davis goes, and I am certain he is gone, I would expect Boston going after a replacement using their expirings like Scal, Tony, Eddie and Walker

If that's the case, then it does change things, but getting players that actually replace Baby is not necessarily easy....especially considering that Baby knows our system.

Remember all the trouble Mikki had picking up his rotations last year?

I mean, I'm starting from a point of the "on the floor" play. And the problems the team is having now don't seem centered on the locker room. I think we have deficiencies in terms of skills and depth in low post players and would be very concerned about a move that further weakened them.

[BballTim]

I'm again frustrated by the decision to not re-up Leon right out of the gate. His energy on the blocks is EXACTLY what this team needs right now. Just the thought of him almost coming back to the floor would be a rallying point for the team.

 Yes, the same way Baby and Daniels coming back were rallying points for the team.

[winsomme]

I'm again frustrated by the decision to not re-up Leon right out of the gate. His energy on the blocks is EXACTLY what this team needs right now. Just the thought of him almost coming back to the floor would be a rallying point for the team.

 Yes, the same way Baby and Daniels coming back were rallying points for the team.

huh?

[Birdbrain]

For me, rebounding and defending the paint are the main issues with this team right now. So, trading away front court depth for a back up PG like Augustin is crazy to me.

With KG struggling to get his legs under him, Perk having inexplicable lapses, Sheed being seemingly allergic to the low post, and Shelden's only input being via his Twitter account, I am very perplexed at what seems to be happening with the team right now and moves that are on the horizon.

I'm again frustrated by the decision to not re-up Leon right out of the gate. His energy on the blocks is EXACTLY what this team needs right now. Just the thought of him almost coming back to the floor would be a rallying point for the team.

I'm still hopeful that we don't know Danny's full plan here, but the way things are taking shape leaves me very concerned...about this season and future seasons.

In big games, we just are not able to control the paint right now. IMO it is essential to control the paint. And combining not signing Leon with trading away Baby for an offensive minded back up PG is antithetical to controlling the paint and thus winning in the playoffs.

We need to be strengthening our post presence, not weakening it.

Putting aside your powe point since he's injured and can't play  it's pretty obvious when your team is shooting practically 50% and you are still losing that defense is the main problem.  Interior defense like you say as well.  Mostly though do to players going by Ray at hyperspeed along with KG either missing games or not 100%.

[PLamb]

I'm again frustrated by the decision to not re-up Leon right out of the gate. His energy on the blocks is EXACTLY what this team needs right now. Just the thought of him almost coming back to the floor would be a rallying point for the team.

 Yes, the same way Baby and Daniels coming back were rallying points for the team.

huh?

I think what he is trying to say is that fans thought when the team was playing poorly that a rallying point for the team was going to be Baby coming back from injury and KG coming back from injury and Daniels coming back from injury

Well they all came back and the team never rallied around those returns and started playing better

So the logic goes if they can't rally around the return of KG, the most transcendent player on the team, and play much better ball, why would they rally around bench guy Leon Powe

The logic is pretty sound actually

[Fafnir]

taking charges is defending the rim IMO. Offensive rebounding is too. You can't keep giving teams second and third shots at scoring. It has to be one and done.

whatever you think about Leon's ability to score on the blocks, the guy LIVED down there. He lived and breathed the low post and he fought tooth and nail for every inch in probably the most difficult place to play on the floor.

Our interior defense is pretty good, as is our post defense. Leon would definitely help us with rebounding, but he wouldn't make that much of a difference. Especially since his help defense is on par with Rasheed's, and his post game is limited to putbacks/cuts/offensive boards. His limitations as a player would keep him from getting enough minutes to be a game changer for this team.

Now consider that he has yet to come back and play at a high level still. I'd love to have Leon from 2008-2009 healthy on this team, but well he be?

[winsomme]

I'm again frustrated by the decision to not re-up Leon right out of the gate. His energy on the blocks is EXACTLY what this team needs right now. Just the thought of him almost coming back to the floor would be a rallying point for the team.

 Yes, the same way Baby and Daniels coming back were rallying points for the team.

huh?

I think what he is trying to say is that fans thought when the team was playing poorly that a rallying point for the team was going to be Baby coming back from injury and KG coming back from injury and Daniels coming back from injury

Well they all came back and the team never rallied around those returns and started playing better

So the logic goes if they can't rally around the return of KG, the most transcendent player on the team, and play much better ball, why would they rally around bench guy Leon Powe

The logic is pretty sound actually

you don't feel better about this team now that we have our full slate of players back? you don't think that our chances of winning it all have improved to any degree at this point?

[Fafnir]

I'm again frustrated by the decision to not re-up Leon right out of the gate. His energy on the blocks is EXACTLY what this team needs right now. Just the thought of him almost coming back to the floor would be a rallying point for the team.

 Yes, the same way Baby and Daniels coming back were rallying points for the team.

huh?

I think what he is trying to say is that fans thought when the team was playing poorly that a rallying point for the team was going to be Baby coming back from injury and KG coming back from injury and Daniels coming back from injury

Well they all came back and the team never rallied around those returns and started playing better

So the logic goes if they can't rally around the return of KG, the most transcendent player on the team, and play much better ball, why would they rally around bench guy Leon Powe

The logic is pretty sound actually

you don't feel better about this team now that we have our full slate of players back? you don't think that our chances of winning it all have improved to any degree at this point?

He's saying that if the team isn't rallying around KG's return to the lineup, or BBD, or Daniels. Then why would Powe be all that different?

I'm not sure he's right though. Powe's injury is serious, and I think he's better liked than Davis.

[winsomme]

I'm again frustrated by the decision to not re-up Leon right out of the gate. His energy on the blocks is EXACTLY what this team needs right now. Just the thought of him almost coming back to the floor would be a rallying point for the team.

 Yes, the same way Baby and Daniels coming back were rallying points for the team.

huh?

I think what he is trying to say is that fans thought when the team was playing poorly that a rallying point for the team was going to be Baby coming back from injury and KG coming back from injury and Daniels coming back from injury

Well they all came back and the team never rallied around those returns and started playing better

So the logic goes if they can't rally around the return of KG, the most transcendent player on the team, and play much better ball, why would they rally around bench guy Leon Powe

The logic is pretty sound actually

I think people continually underestimate the impact of role players. Look at what Crawford has done for ATL.

Think about contributions on the Pats of players like Kevin Faulk over the years....

How about one of the biggest plays in Red Sox history being Dave Roberts steal of second base....

Leon is the kind of player that others rally around based on how he plays the game...he also happens to contribute skills that would be helpful to this team with his scrappiness and toughness around the basket.

We are too soft around the basket right now....and losing Baby would make us even more so.