How much blame should Doc take?

[nyceltsfan]

I am only seeing the games televised in NY, but I have many issues with the way Doc is running this team:

1. Doc does not seem to depart from his rotations.  When teams are storming back against the Celts at the end of the 3rd quarter and the beginning of the 4th quarter, he will not bring Pierce or KG back into the game.  He always waits until there are 6 minutes left in the game and by then it is a steep hill to climb to come back.  This weekend's game against Orlando was a good example of that.
2. Rasheed Wallace - Why he continues to play huge minutes is beyond me.  Big Baby may have some problems executing and Scal has never been a perfect option, but what has Sheed done to deserve time over those guys?  I think Sheed will not revamp his game until he gets the message that his lazy 3-point shooting and no help defense will not be tolerated.
3. The Nets game - How could this team be outplayed for 3 quarters by the Nets?
4. Ray Allen - Ray's minutes are overblown when we have proven to get something out of Tony Allen this year and frankly, Eddie is also starting to light it up.
5. Isolation play - It seems to me that at the end of the Orlando game, when the Celts needed buckets, they did not run plays for Pierce, who is their best one-on-one player.

I think Doc should be taking a lot of the blame for the team's struggles.  I understand that injuries cost the team, but the Celts were 22-7 without Garnett last year and almost went to the ECF.  If the fans in Boston are seeing something different than I am, I would love to hear it.

[sk7326]

I am only seeing the games televised in NY, but I have many issues with the way Doc is running this team:

1. Doc does not seem to depart from his rotations.  When teams are storming back against the Celts at the end of the 3rd quarter and the beginning of the 4th quarter, he will not bring Pierce or KG back into the game.  He always waits until there are 6 minutes left in the game and by then it is a steep hill to climb to come back.  This weekend's game against Orlando was a good example of that.
2. Rasheed Wallace - Why he continues to play huge minutes is beyond me.  Big Baby may have some problems executing and Scal has never been a perfect option, but what has Sheed done to deserve time over those guys?  I think Sheed will not revamp his game until he gets the message that his lazy 3-point shooting and no help defense will not be tolerated.
3. The Nets game - How could this team be outplayed for 3 quarters by the Nets?
4. Ray Allen - Ray's minutes are overblown when we have proven to get something out of Tony Allen this year and frankly, Eddie is also starting to light it up.
5. Isolation play - It seems to me that at the end of the Orlando game, when the Celts needed buckets, they did not run plays for Pierce, who is their best one-on-one player.

I think Doc should be taking a lot of the blame for the team's struggles.  I understand that injuries cost the team, but the Celts were 22-7 without Garnett last year and almost went to the ECF.  If the fans in Boston are seeing something different than I am, I would love to hear it.

Doc is not blameless - but he has less to work with than last year.  The veterans are a year older, Davis has largely been terrible, Sheed has been as you describe. 

1. Managing KG's minutes is still a priority, and Pierce has not been precisely healthy in this recent stretch.  Ray is healthy, just not effective.

2. Big Baby has stunk this year, and has forgotten to just pull the trigger from 17 feet.  Getting his shot blocked 5 times a game does not happiness make. 

3. It's the NBA.  Bad teams do this all the time - some night just have to piece together 10 minutes of decent basketball.  It's a long season.

4. Tony Allen has been wonderful, but he is still a turnover machine who can't shoot.  Eddie is what he is, you know inside of 3 minutes if you are getting a meaningful contribution from him.

Really, the team is just very thin.  The Sheed and  Daniels signings offered the illusion of depth.  However, Daniels injury history and Sheed's surprising near total lack of motivation, have cut into that.  The team's rotation is not especially dependable.  It is tempting to say play Shelden more, but his willingness to shoot jump shots he can't make and his hands of stone make some of it tough.  He probably could use some burn though.  The other guys who Doc ignores - if Danny and Doc were not on the same page regarding these players ability, I suspect we would know it.  Giddens is not a rotation player - Walker shows flashes but the polish has not been there. 

Doc deserves blame, but this team was systemically fragile, and a lot of the best case things we dreamt about early in the season are not coming true. 

[Chris]

Blame is a tough word.  Ultimately, I blame the players for not performing.  However, I do think Doc could be doing a better job.  He seems to be hesitant to accept the fact that this is not the 2008 Celtics anymore, and to act on that. 

But ultimately, the overall performance is on the players.  They need to wake up, and perform up to their potential, and IMO, that is not on the coach.

[Drucci]

Doc is terrible at managing the substitutions. It's never been his strength but it's particularly obvious this year, he is doing a terrible job.

The only thing he does right is managing KG's minutes, never over 30 minutes. But other than that... he sticks way too long with the starters when they struggle, instead of inserting one or two bench players who could bring some energy and get things going when we're turning the ball over on offense or not hitting shots.

Doc seems to stick with his pregame's planned substitutions and he doesn't adapt it to the situation. When the starters are starting to collapse before your own very eyes, can't you realize that you should put a bench player or two to get things going? At least it will change something.

Also, he is terrible at managing Ray's minutes, it's painful to watch Ray play 40 minutes night in and night out and Doc saying postgame that he should play him less.

These are my two biggest griefs against Doc this year. And I also think he doesn't call timeouts early enough when the team is starting to choke. I understand he trusts the vets and wants them to get rid of the funk by themselves but come on, it has happened 9 times this year, so let's treat them to win the games and not as veterans, because they clearly are not playing like vets.

[SalmonAndMashedPotatoes]

Doc takes a lot of blame as it relates to overplaying Ray Allen.  He also gets a bonehead award for complaining about bad defense and bad movement and then continually giving 40 minutes to the worst defender and biggest ball sticker in his starting unit.

[wdleehi]

He is the head coach of an under-performing team. 


He will take a lot of the blame.


Just as the players are going to take a lot of the blame.


Just like Ainge is going to take a lot of the blame.




Don't worry, everyone is earning a ton of blame right now.

[mzepol]

Quoted from a realgm poster when asked why Rondo disappears in the 4th quarter of games:

question that id been wondering and didn't wanna make a rash statement on: i've noticed on games that ive watched rondo in that he seems to disappear in the 4th quarter. is this just watching the wrong games or is there something to it?

No, Rondo has been consistently disappearing at the end of games. The following is my general impression of a Celtic game

1. Start the game running the offense for Paul, Ray and KG. Rondo can basically chip in where he can (when the others actually allow him to).

2. The team is in trouble, and so Doc turns to Rondo to dig them out of the hole. Rondo does so.

3. End of first half. Rondo has dug Celtics out of big hole. Everyone talks about how good Rondo is.

4. Start third quarter. Go back to running team the way it was run in first quarter. "Now it will work. You'll see" says Doc Rivers to himself.

5. Team gets into trouble. " Save us, Rondo" is the cry. Rondo does his best to do so.

6. After digging team out of said hole, Rondo is forced to give the ball up to the very same guys who dug not only one, but two holes which Rondo has already dug them out of.

7. We lose if playing against a good team.

8. Doc talks about how the defense isn't good enough (#1 ranked defense in the NBA in points per possession), and how we failed to execute on the offensive end, but that we got the shots that we wanted (#13 ranked offense). That our guys just don't want it enough, and how Rondo needs to mature as a player. Lessons learned by Doc? Zero. Repeat pattern next game.

This is a facetious, yet accurate, portrayal of this season for this team, especially as of late. Rondo scores or assists over 42% of the Celtics baskets (fourth in the league for a player's share of a team's total field goals), yet he is somehow unfit to run the team through the entire game (he is good enough to dig them out of holes game after game, though).

You want to know a fun fact which will blow your mind? Not only does Rondo lead the team in assist (hell he is third in the league), he also leads the team in field goals made. If you watch the games, as well, you will notice that at least half of the free throw attempts come at the end of a Rondo pass. Yet Rivers actually thinks of him as being a liability.

Rivers is a clown.

I think he was spot on with his comments about how Doc handles the team.

[BballTim]

Quoted from a realgm poster when asked why Rondo disappears in the 4th quarter of games:

question that id been wondering and didn't wanna make a rash statement on: i've noticed on games that ive watched rondo in that he seems to disappear in the 4th quarter. is this just watching the wrong games or is there something to it?

No, Rondo has been consistently disappearing at the end of games. The following is my general impression of a Celtic game

1. Start the game running the offense for Paul, Ray and KG. Rondo can basically chip in where he can (when the others actually allow him to).

2. The team is in trouble, and so Doc turns to Rondo to dig them out of the hole. Rondo does so.

3. End of first half. Rondo has dug Celtics out of big hole. Everyone talks about how good Rondo is.

4. Start third quarter. Go back to running team the way it was run in first quarter. "Now it will work. You'll see" says Doc Rivers to himself.

5. Team gets into trouble. " Save us, Rondo" is the cry. Rondo does his best to do so.

6. After digging team out of said hole, Rondo is forced to give the ball up to the very same guys who dug not only one, but two holes which Rondo has already dug them out of.

7. We lose if playing against a good team.

8. Doc talks about how the defense isn't good enough (#1 ranked defense in the NBA in points per possession), and how we failed to execute on the offensive end, but that we got the shots that we wanted (#13 ranked offense). That our guys just don't want it enough, and how Rondo needs to mature as a player. Lessons learned by Doc? Zero. Repeat pattern next game.

This is a facetious, yet accurate, portrayal of this season for this team, especially as of late. Rondo scores or assists over 42% of the Celtics baskets (fourth in the league for a player's share of a team's total field goals), yet he is somehow unfit to run the team through the entire game (he is good enough to dig them out of holes game after game, though).

You want to know a fun fact which will blow your mind? Not only does Rondo lead the team in assist (hell he is third in the league), he also leads the team in field goals made. If you watch the games, as well, you will notice that at least half of the free throw attempts come at the end of a Rondo pass. Yet Rivers actually thinks of him as being a liability.

Rivers is a clown.

I think he was spot on with his comments about how Doc handles the team.

  Funny, but not far from the mark.

  In all honesty I'm lukewarm at best on any of the "let's get a decent backup pg" ideas because I don't trust Doc to play Rondo enough if he has more options.

[Greeny]

Alot-

Watching Doc stare into space when the Celtics loose a 10 point lead drive me nuts.

Look at the 2nd team:

House - shoots 3's, no D Jason Williams ring a bell?, no assists
Sheed - shoots 3's, ok D, bad attitude, no assists
TA - No outside shot - puts head down and drives, good d, no assists
Glen D - limited range, but only offensive rebounder, no assists, limited d, but takes charges.

Sheldon Williams was a good complement to the 2nd team with good d, and offensive rebounding...hustle and unselfishness.

Doc will mix in Scal, who I like because he looks to pass 1st, and hustles, takes charges. He knows his role.

Doc needs to mix in Sheldon for Sheed or Baby.
I love how Daniels sat forever last Sunday. I know its his 1st game back, but he was cleared to play so play him.

[xmuscularghandix]

Alot-

Watching Doc stare into space when the Celtics loose a 10 point lead drive me nuts.

Look at the 2nd team:

House - shoots 3's, no D Jason Williams ring a bell?, no assists
Sheed - shoots 3's, ok D, bad attitude, no assists
TA - No outside shot - puts head down and drives, good d, no assists
Glen D - limited range, but only offensive rebounder, no assists, limited d, but takes charges.

Sheldon Williams was a good complement to the 2nd team with good d, and offensive rebounding...hustle and unselfishness.

Doc will mix in Scal, who I like because he looks to pass 1st, and hustles, takes charges. He knows his role.

Doc needs to mix in Sheldon for Sheed or Baby.
I love how Daniels sat forever last Sunday. I know its his 1st game back, but he was cleared to play so play him.

I can't help but notice that Shelden is the man now that he's not playing. I noticed his inability to catch the ball in traffic, lack of offensive game, decent defensive positioning but no real length as a shot blocker.

Grass is greener, everything is bad when your losing. You'll see this team in the second half.

ALSO how is Doc supposed to teach effort to a group of 30+ year old veterans... Sheed has a bad attitude? what about all the other guys blowing the leads?

[thebirdman]

Rivers is extremely stubborn! It seems like he just doesn`t want to try out new things, even though it is apparent the current ones don`t work...

[KungPoweChicken]

I am only seeing the games televised in NY, but I have many issues with the way Doc is running this team:

1. Doc does not seem to depart from his rotations.  When teams are storming back against the Celts at the end of the 3rd quarter and the beginning of the 4th quarter, he will not bring Pierce or KG back into the game.  He always waits until there are 6 minutes left in the game and by then it is a steep hill to climb to come back.  This weekend's game against Orlando was a good example of that.
2. Rasheed Wallace - Why he continues to play huge minutes is beyond me.  Big Baby may have some problems executing and Scal has never been a perfect option, but what has Sheed done to deserve time over those guys?  I think Sheed will not revamp his game until he gets the message that his lazy 3-point shooting and no help defense will not be tolerated.
3. The Nets game - How could this team be outplayed for 3 quarters by the Nets?
4. Ray Allen - Ray's minutes are overblown when we have proven to get something out of Tony Allen this year and frankly, Eddie is also starting to light it up.
5. Isolation play - It seems to me that at the end of the Orlando game, when the Celts needed buckets, they did not run plays for Pierce, who is their best one-on-one player.

I think Doc should be taking a lot of the blame for the team's struggles.  I understand that injuries cost the team, but the Celts were 22-7 without Garnett last year and almost went to the ECF.  If the fans in Boston are seeing something different than I am, I would love to hear it.

I couldn't agree more with you. Also, a good deal of blame has to be on Ainge. Since winning the championship, Ainge has repeatedly made the wrong moves. To name a few: giving last year's team no help at all except for Moore and Marbury, signing Wallace, who has no interest in playing basketball, not re-signing Powe, who most likely would have been our best and cheapest bench player, drafting Giddens, etc..