Author Topic: What I saw yesterday  (Read 4687 times)

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Re: What I saw yesterday
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2010, 02:12:20 PM »

Offline FatjohnReturns

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I see a gimpy KG who is not the defender he once was. I see a gimpy Pierce. I see an aging shooting guard who can't carry a load for his gimpy mates. I see an old fat version of the artist formerly known as Rasheed Wallace with no defensive or offensive accountability. I see a bench with no scoring (other than Daniels). And I see everyone sagging off rondo and daring ANYONE ELSE on the Cs beat them.

It's disappointing, and it ain't pretty. Sigh. Nostalgia isn't going to make this team better or healthier.
I see an old fat version of the artist formerly known as Rasheed Wallace with no defensive or offensive accountability

This made me laugh. TP

Re: What I saw yesterday
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2010, 02:16:40 PM »

Offline Spicoli

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I get what you'r saying, but i don't think this is about Orlando, as much as it is about the Cs lack of focus and killer instinct. Orlando didn't do anything that the Lakers and Hawks didn't do.

Re: What I saw yesterday
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2010, 02:17:28 PM »

Offline Celtics17

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I saw a lot of my computer screen because I couldnt stand watching us play. Actually though, Orlando looked good and we looked beat up. Everyone keeps saying how bad we are and trade this guy and that guy and we probably do need a trade. But, this team is nowhere near healthy so maybe we will look much better then.

Re: What I saw yesterday
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2010, 02:20:40 PM »

Offline jasail

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I saw a team that lacks a #1 option.  When Orlando stiffened up their defense the C's didn't know where to go or how to get started.  

They don't have a go-to guy that can give them that spark.  It can be PP, RA, KG or RR and EH on any given night, but they don't have a consistent option.  Then I saw a team that let poor offensive execution derail defensive cohesiveness.  

In the past two seasons they lacked a true #1 option (albiet that was offset b/c PP, RA & KG were all playing at higher levels and more consistently), so that first point isn't entirely new, just more pronounced.  But in the past when they'd fall into offensive luls, they'd buckle down on defense.  That would turn into stops and turnovers and fast break points.  Getting RA, PP and KG transition baskets they could get one of them going.

That is the difference to me this season.  They have always gone into offensive luls punctuated with bad 3's and sloppy passes.  What makes it more pronounced this year, IMO, is that they let it derail their defense and can't get the fast break going to jump start their offense.  


Re: What I saw yesterday
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2010, 02:27:21 PM »

Offline scoop

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I saw a team lose a double-digit lead for the 9th time since Christmas for a loss.

I saw a team fall to 9-12 in the last 21 games.

I saw a team suffer another in the never-ending second half collapses, be it third quarter or fourth quarter.

I saw a team fall to 1-7 against Orlando and Atlanta for the season and 2-8 when you add in the Lakers and Cleveland.


  Do you see the team that won 14 out of 15 in Nov/Dec? Do you see the team that was 23-5 with the best defense in the league  and the best point and efficiency differentials in the league until the injuries came? Because I also see the 9-12 team and realize that they've had KG or Paul or Rondo injured and in and ou of the lineup during that stretch. I don't see any reason that if those guys get a little healthier (not at 2008 level) that they can't get back to the level they were playing at in Dec. Do you? If so, why can't they get back to that level?

1 - Pierce isn't the same player that started the season - he doesn't have the same athletic prowess. It can be due to the knee injury and him needing time to regain form; however, the same happened last season with no injury.

2 - For players of Garnett age, it's increasingly difficult to recover from an injury. Plus, he was scoring the ball at an insane rate during that period.

3 - Ray Allen shot the ball from distance at a rate in December than he's been unable to replicate for awhile (39.5% in December; 25% and 31.9% in the other months, 31.8% so far in this one.). Ray's shooting is very important for this team and it's uncertain how good of a shooter he currently is.

4 - We're talking about the period that goes from the loss vs. Orlando to the win at Orlando - the team only lost 1 game (vs. Philly) in those 16 games. Out of that period, the Cs are basically playing .500 basketball, with a 17-16 record. However, only 5 of those games were with +.500 teams: Toronto, San Antonio, OKC, Memphis and Orlando.

I don't think that, at this point, there's anyone who can know for sure if the team will be able to regain that kind of form in the future.

Re: What I saw yesterday
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2010, 02:41:08 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I saw a team lose a double-digit lead for the 9th time since Christmas for a loss.

I saw a team fall to 9-12 in the last 21 games.

I saw a team suffer another in the never-ending second half collapses, be it third quarter or fourth quarter.

I saw a team fall to 1-7 against Orlando and Atlanta for the season and 2-8 when you add in the Lakers and Cleveland.


  Do you see the team that won 14 out of 15 in Nov/Dec? Do you see the team that was 23-5 with the best defense in the league  and the best point and efficiency differentials in the league until the injuries came? Because I also see the 9-12 team and realize that they've had KG or Paul or Rondo injured and in and ou of the lineup during that stretch. I don't see any reason that if those guys get a little healthier (not at 2008 level) that they can't get back to the level they were playing at in Dec. Do you? If so, why can't they get back to that level?

1 - Pierce isn't the same player that started the season - he doesn't have the same athletic prowess. It can be due to the knee injury and him needing time to regain form; however, the same happened last season with no injury.

2 - For players of Garnett age, it's increasingly difficult to recover from an injury. Plus, he was scoring the ball at an insane rate during that period.

3 - Ray Allen shot the ball from distance at a rate in December than he's been unable to replicate for awhile (39.5% in December; 25% and 31.9% in the other months, 31.8% so far in this one.). Ray's shooting is very important for this team and it's uncertain how good of a shooter he currently is.

4 - We're talking about the period that goes from the loss vs. Orlando to the win at Orlando - the team only lost 1 game (vs. Philly) in those 16 games. Out of that period, the Cs are basically playing .500 basketball, with a 17-16 record. However, only 5 of those games were with +.500 teams: Toronto, San Antonio, OKC, Memphis and Orlando.

I don't think that, at this point, there's anyone who can know for sure if the team will be able to regain that kind of form in the future.

  1. Last year Paul was playing a ton of minutes after KG went down. He didn't have an injury but all those 40+ minute games took their toll.

  2. We'll see, he has a few months. Maybe he gets somewhat better, but if he doesn't a lot of this talk is moot.

  3. Again, we'll see, just like we'll see what Danny does with the team. Is it that surprising that when Paul and KG ar eplaying well Ray shoots better? He'd definitely get better looks than if they're hurt or not playing.

  4. The team's been streaky but the streaks have been pretty health-related. They may not be healthy come playoff time but I think that's a lot more likely than healthy but playing poorly.

Re: What I saw yesterday
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2010, 02:48:06 PM »

Offline feckless

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Posted this on another thread but it works here also

However, in the 1968–69 season, Russell seemed to reach a breaking point. Shocked by the murder of Robert F. Kennedy, disillusioned by the Vietnam War, and weary from his increasingly stale (and later divorced) marriage to his wife Rose, he was convinced that the U.S. was a corrupt nation and that he was wasting his time playing something as superficial as basketball.[46] He was 15 pounds overweight, skipped mandatory NBA coach meetings and was generally lacking energy: after a New York Knicks game, he complained of intense pain and was diagnosed with acute exhaustion.[46] Russell pulled himself together and put up 9.9 points and 19.3 rebounds per game,[21] but the aging Celtics stumbled through the regular season. Their 48–34 record was the team's worst since 1955–56, and they entered the playoffs as only the fourth-seeded team in the East.[47] In the playoffs, however, Russell and his Celtics achieved upsets over the Philadelphia 76ers and New York Knicks to earn a meeting with the Los Angeles Lakers in the NBA Finals. L.A. now featured new recruit Wilt Chamberlain next to perennial stars Baylor and West, and were heavily favored. In the first two games, Russell ordered not to double-team West, who used the freedom to score 53 and 41 points in the Game 1 and 2 Laker wins.[48] Russell then ordered to double-team West, and Boston won Game 3. In Game 4, the Celtics were trailing by one point with seven seconds left and the Lakers having the ball, but then Baylor stepped out of bounds, and in the last play, Sam Jones used a triple screen by Bailey Howell, Larry Siegfried and Havlicek and hit a buzzer beater which equalized the series.[48] The teams split the next two games, so it all came down to Game 7 in L.A., where Lakers owner Jack Kent Cooke angered and motivated the Celtics by putting "proceedings of Lakers victory ceremony" on the game leaflets. Russell used a copy as extra motivation and told his team to play a running game, because in that case, not the better, but the more determined team was going to win.[48]

The Celtics were ahead by nine points with five minutes remaining; in addition, West was heavily limping after a Game 5 thigh injury and Chamberlain had left the game with an injured leg.[48] West then hit one basket after the other and cut the lead to one, and Chamberlain asked to return to the game. However, Lakers coach Bill van Breda Kolff kept Chamberlain on the bench until the end of the game, saying later that he wanted to stay with the lineup responsible for the comeback.[30][49] The Celtics held on for a 108–106 victory, and Russell claimed his eleventh championship in 13 years. At age 35, Russell contributed 21 rebounds in his last NBA game.[17] After the game, Russell went over to the distraught West (who had scored 42 points and was named the only NBA Finals MVP in history from the losing team), clasped his hand and tried to soothe him.

As a Celtic fan you should know that the Celtics have been there before,  old, tired, dinged up, bored, complacent--this team needs to peak at the right time, --the leads we easily gain show the talent is sufficient, it is thinking that we can turn it on and off, at will, that is killing us-- the playoffs are still months away---KG and PP are realizing they aren't invincible and have to find a way with their head & soul not their body--but mainly Doc has to figure out what turns this team on--just like Red and Russ did--Doc just let yesterday's 3rd quarter happen --he needed to impose his will somehow--we need to find a Havlicek or some kind of large "will" coming off the bench!  Keep hope alive!
Days up and down they come, like rain on a conga drum, forget most, remember some, don't turn none away.   Townes Van Zandt

Re: What I saw yesterday
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2010, 02:53:14 PM »

Offline vinnie

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I saw a team lose a double-digit lead for the 9th time since Christmas for a loss.

I saw a team fall to 9-12 in the last 21 games.

I saw a team suffer another in the never-ending second half collapses, be it third quarter or fourth quarter.

I saw a team fall to 1-7 against Orlando and Atlanta for the season and 2-8 when you add in the Lakers and Cleveland.


  Do you see the team that won 14 out of 15 in Nov/Dec? Do you see the team that was 23-5 with the best defense in the league  and the best point and efficiency differentials in the league until the injuries came? Because I also see the 9-12 team and realize that they've had KG or Paul or Rondo injured and in and ou of the lineup during that stretch. I don't see any reason that if those guys get a little healthier (not at 2008 level) that they can't get back to the level they were playing at in Dec. Do you? If so, why can't they get back to that level?

Who were they beating during that 23-5 stretch? I dare say that the Celtics had one of the easiest schedules in the league to start the season in terms of who they played. The chickens are coming home to roost now that the schedule has gotten tougher. The post all star game west cvoast trip as all the makines of a disaster. I hope not.

Re: What I saw yesterday
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2010, 02:55:42 PM »

Offline vinnie

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I would hate to have to pin the Celtics chances this season on the fact that the 68-69 team won the championship after a mediocre regular season. It happens a great once and awhile. It is a rare occurence. In some cases it is a fluke.

Re: What I saw yesterday
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2010, 02:58:24 PM »

Offline feckless

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I would hate to have to pin the Celtics chances this season on the fact that the 68-69 team won the championship after a mediocre regular season. It happens a great once and awhile. It is a rare occurence. In some cases it is a fluke.

It's called Celtics' lore --it is why we are Celtics' fans-- ;D  when Bill Russell, Larry, DJ  set their minds to something --smarter and more determined prevailed--this team needs to get there
Days up and down they come, like rain on a conga drum, forget most, remember some, don't turn none away.   Townes Van Zandt

Re: What I saw yesterday
« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2010, 03:13:26 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I saw a team lose a double-digit lead for the 9th time since Christmas for a loss.

I saw a team fall to 9-12 in the last 21 games.

I saw a team suffer another in the never-ending second half collapses, be it third quarter or fourth quarter.

I saw a team fall to 1-7 against Orlando and Atlanta for the season and 2-8 when you add in the Lakers and Cleveland.


  Do you see the team that won 14 out of 15 in Nov/Dec? Do you see the team that was 23-5 with the best defense in the league  and the best point and efficiency differentials in the league until the injuries came? Because I also see the 9-12 team and realize that they've had KG or Paul or Rondo injured and in and ou of the lineup during that stretch. I don't see any reason that if those guys get a little healthier (not at 2008 level) that they can't get back to the level they were playing at in Dec. Do you? If so, why can't they get back to that level?

Who were they beating during that 23-5 stretch? I dare say that the Celtics had one of the easiest schedules in the league to start the season in terms of who they played. The chickens are coming home to roost now that the schedule has gotten tougher. The post all star game west cvoast trip as all the makines of a disaster. I hope not.

  I don't see our schedule as bad going forward. We have 33 games left and only about a dozen are against current playoff teams. Out of that 23-5 stretch, 14 of the 28 games were against current playoff teams. We had 7 games against "good" teams (Cle, Sa, Utah, Phoenix, Atl, Orlando twice) and were 4-3.

Re: What I saw yesterday
« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2010, 03:20:06 PM »

Offline WeMadeIt17

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That story about Bill Russel is a great one and one would love to believe the Celtics can do that as well, But i just dont see it. This age in the NBA you have guys much more quicker, faster, and more athletic then ever and we are to banged up to be able just to pull it together and get on a run. We need some youth on this team to balance out the age. But i will say that this Celtics team doesn't even look like they are trying to pull it together. Just settling and that really gets me mad.