Ray simply NEEDS to go! (No Ray bashing)

[P2]

Father time has obviously worked overtime this season, and Truth, KG and Ray aren't getting younger.

The Cavs are playing tremendously without Mo Williams, and they're supposedly closing in on a deal that would yield them Iggy Pop for spare sparts (Hickson is good though).

Not only does that put us in a bad position for this year, as the rich Cavs get richer and we can't beat either ATL or Orlando, but also the quality of our roster would worsen for next year.

Explanation:
1. If we don't trade Ray and he re-signs for whatever amount of money, it's still: Big 3 (2011) < Big 3 (2010).

2. Expiring contracts this season (except Ray): Scal, Eddie, Tony, Daniels, Giddens, and Landlord. Of those 6, we can re-sign everybody except Daniels and Williams without using the MLE. The LLE isn't available next season, and if we re-sign Daniels for the MLE (or sign any other player for it, which is pretty much the same quality of player as Daniels), that leaves us pretty much with the same bench as this season, which is due for an upgrade already now. We could add some players for the minimum, but that won't make a difference anyway. Thus: Bench (2011) <= Bench (2010)

That means that our team is bound to get worse next season in case of not trading Ray!

Ray is good; his playing style really fits this team, he can still shoot and still resembles an All-Star player, but he will decline even more next season. We need young blood to have a chance to get even with Cleveland, Orlando and Atlanta this, and also next season, because I don't see either of those teams getting worse next season.

If trading for Martin or Iggy Pop, we would be fresher this season and they would probably get better next season (Iggy is 26, Martin 27) after spending the playoffs in our system. But we would have to get at least another rotation player back (like Nocioni) whose contract lasts beyond the end of this season, in order to have a bench for next season (as described above, our bench will stay the same or get worse if we rely on signing free agents).

Our hands are tied, and we need to get out of this by trading Ray for a young near All-Star like Iguodala or Martin and quality bench players. We shall see in less than 10 days which team bites (if at all).

[Roy Hobbs]

There have been a ton of "we need to trade Ray" threads lately, and usually, what's inside is "it's absolutely imperative that we trade him for Iguodala or Martin".

What if those deals aren't available?  What if the best offer we've gotten is Ray for Hinrich and Thomas (i.e., a downgrade at SG and a marginal upgrade at backup/third-string PF).

If a younger star is available, of course we should move Ray at this point.  However, what if other teams don't want to hand us their star players?

[P2]

If a younger star is available, of course we should move Ray at this point.  However, what if other teams don't want to hand us their star players?

Yeah, that's the catch. Then we're doomed this season and beyond, as the use-by date has expired for the Big 3. The window was 3 years. We are definitely not championship worthy next season.

[jdpapa3]

List of reasonable guys I'd trade Ray for:

Iguodala
Martin
Ellis
Gay (memphis doesn't have anything to match w/contracts, but Gay can probably be had)
maaaaaybe J Rich (unsure of his contract)
Caron

Unless there's a way to upgrade at another position significantly (Amare), then I don't see us giving Ray up. I don't think we're doomed if we hold onto him. He is a solid starter and people would be clamoring for someone who can shoot if he actually did go. He would now be the role of Rondo when Ray first got here (not literally, but in terms of carrying the offense).

[Who]

I think the Celtics can build a quality bench by splitting the MLE between a primary backup guard and primary backup wing and then filling the rest of the roster with minimum contracts.

I don't it's a necessity to get back another rotation player in the trade in order to have a high quality bench next season.

[Cman]

The LLE isn't available next season, and if we re-sign Daniels for the MLE (or sign any other player for it, which is pretty much the same quality of player as Daniels), that leaves us pretty much with the same bench as this season, which is due for an upgrade already now.

You could add that there is no reason to believe that mgt will use the MLE next summer -- they already are paying luxury tax, and may not want to pay more....

I agree with Roy Hobbs' point, though.  Everyone *assumes* Ray could be traded for Iggy/Martin.  What if such offers are not on the table?  What if the best offer is a trade for Hinrich?  What if even that trade requires a draft pick in return?  ie:  what if the Cs only can get 50 cents on the dollar for Ray?  In such a case, does it still make sense to trade?

[CbrewEra]

Why is Ray the so said issue to everyone?  Sure, he would yield the most value of those we'd consider trading, but he's also been one of the more consistent this year.  The main issue is a lack of character guys doing their jobs.  In our title year, everyone knew their role, went out and did it.  Theres too many guys now that need to have plays ran for them on our second squad.  A couple years ago we had the luxury of telling guys like posey "ok go defend and get what offense comes to you".  Or powe with "go out there and be aggressive on the offensive boards."  Guysl ike that had games that would come to them in the flow, and they didnt need things ran for them like say.. Sheed needs to be posted up in an iso, or jacks up a 3.

[ssspence]

There have been a ton of "we need to trade Ray" threads lately, and usually, what's inside is "it's absolutely imperative that we trade him for Iguodala or Martin".

What if those deals aren't available?  What if the best offer we've gotten is Ray for Hinrich and Thomas (i.e., a downgrade at SG and a marginal upgrade at backup/third-string PF).

If a younger star is available, of course we should move Ray at this point.  However, what if other teams don't want to hand us their star players?

Then mgmt needs to be creative to drum up a potentially better deal(i would in now way consider a deal for Hinrich and Thomas). Example: if the Cs don't take Hinrich, then no one will. So, demand more from Chicago to get it done. Get Deng. Or, take a contract from SAC and give up a pick to get Martin. Or, create a three way deal whereby one of the teams that should be sellers accepts the cap relief we can offer.

Considering the lack of buyers in the market, and the shortage of major expiring deals like Ray's from those teams, the Cs should be able to find a deal inclusive of talent. It's basically just us, the Cavs, the Rockets and the Mavs. The Rockets are likely less motivated than the Cs (they'll have cap room this summer). That should make for some good odds of getting talent out of the marketplace. Yes, i'm thinking wishfully.

[wdleehi]

You can only trade Ray for the following two.



1) A fringe all-star with a reasonable contract. 

2) Role players that will help the team win this season, but are not signed for big money long term. 

[FatjohnReturns]

Sorry I disagree. Trading Ray is not going to improve the roster. The team has three major problems
(1) Interior defense and reboudning.(Wow i miss Leon)
(2) Docs limited skills managing rotations(Lakers game and TA) (3) Rasheeds lackluster attitude.(really affected team psyche)

Ray may become the fall guy but I seriously doubt the team will improve by trading Ray.

[jdpapa3]

I calculated Ray's stats for games against other contenders that I see: (LA, ORL, ATL)

He is averaging 13 ppg on 37% from the field and 33% from 3 pt land in those games. This is what I am most scared of with Ray: he tends to hurt us against our main contenders; especially Atlanta.

[BballTim]

There have been a ton of "we need to trade Ray" threads lately, and usually, what's inside is "it's absolutely imperative that we trade him for Iguodala or Martin".

What if those deals aren't available?  What if the best offer we've gotten is Ray for Hinrich and Thomas (i.e., a downgrade at SG and a marginal upgrade at backup/third-string PF).

If a younger star is available, of course we should move Ray at this point.  However, what if other teams don't want to hand us their star players?

  Try and sign Mike Miller, bring back Ray for the "Eddie" role.

[CDawg834]

Why is Ray the so said issue to everyone?  Sure, he would yield the most value of those we'd consider trading...

I think you answered your own question right there.  It's not a matter of "Ray can't help this team."  He definitely can.  He is just the only player (other than the untouchables: KG, Paul, Rondo) that we can really get anything of return for in a trade, and it's clear that this team as constituted probably won't win a title.  Trading expiring deals like Scal, TA, etc. isn't going to get the C's the player who can help put them over the top.

The Sheed signing is a completely different issue.  While I think this signing was a huge mistake, we can't undo it.  The only way to get some additional real help is to trade Ray's expiring deal.

[FatjohnReturns]

Why is Ray the so said issue to everyone?  Sure, he would yield the most value of those we'd consider trading...

I think you answered your own question right there.  It's not a matter of "Ray can't help this team."  He definitely can.  He is just the only player (other than the untouchables: KG, Paul, Rondo) that we can really get anything of return for in a trade, and it's clear that this team as constituted probably won't win a title.  Trading expiring deals like Scal, TA, etc. isn't going to get the C's the player who can help put them over the top.

The Sheed signing is a completely different issue.  While I think this signing was a huge mistake, we can't undo it.  The only way to get some additional real help is to trade Ray's expiring deal.

Yeah couldnt have said it better. TP

[P2]

I think most of the following can be had before this year's deadline: Martin (SAC), Iguodala (PHI), J-Rich (PHO), Butler (WAS), Miller (WAS), Hinrich + Salmons (CHI), Maggette (GSW). Ray for one of those plus fillers, not sure which team would do it though. It's not impossible at all, and some teams might consider our offers. But I think we have to jump at the best offer available, if it's decent.