Is Your Pick Two Team Better than When it Started?

[Who]

Los Angeles Clippers (Atzar)-
Ricky Rubio, James Harden, Rudy Gay, Blake Griffin, Joakim Noah
Rafer Alston, Daniel Gibson, Jarvis Hayes, Marquis Daniels, Mareese Speights

I think Blake Griffin and Joakim Noah, plus a low level but serviceable supporting cast, could lead the Clippers to 30+ wins by themselves. Griffin is a major talent and Noah's defense + rebounding creates one heck of a foundation to build off of.

Add the abilities of Ricky Rubio + Rudy Gay + James Harden and talent wise you're looking at a 45 win team. A solid all-round team that does good work offensively + defensively + on the backboards.

Then consider the upside to each player and how much they could improve over the next few years ... beautiful. The Clippers are heading down a bright road and will very likely become a contender in a couple of seasons.

I don't like the bench but that's neither here or there because this team is all about the future. About the future that it's starting lineup creates. Marreese Speights, though, he could play a role in the Clips future too. Only reserve who's likely to last beyond this season. Well, maybe Gibson too, but preferably not.

[Who]

Golden State Warriors (Bass Thumper)-
Jason Williams, Monta Ellis, Brian Scalabrine, Leon Powe, Andres Biedrins
Carlos Arroyo, Tony Allen, Brian Cardinal, Matt Bonner, Brad Miller

I'd pay to see this roster just to see this collection of players. A fun mix.

But not a talented group. They're the worst team in the league. A team that struggles to 20 wins. If Powe was healthy, they could win 25-28 games if they were truly committed but they'd likely fall apart from their failures. Similar to the NJ Nets this season.

[Who]

Detroit Pistons (Redz)-
Raymond Felton, Jason Terry, Rasual Butler, Andrea Bargnani, Marcus Camby
Beno Udrih, Rodney Stuckey, Udonis Haslem, Josh Powell, Rasho Nesterovic, Kosta Koufos

A strange roster ...

• Four point guards with Stuckey, Felton, Terry and Udrih.
• Only one wing player and he doesn't rebound the ball -- so perimeter rebounding will be a major issue to watch ... actually, with Bargnani, rebounding on a whole will be a major problem
• A varied mix of big men -- Bargnani + Camby + Haslem +
  

I like the big man rotation overall. Not a big Bargnani fan but he's been oddly successful this season. I dislike the Camby + Bargnani combination defensively but I guess it's okay. So long as Bargnani is the center because he'd be massacred defensively as a power forward. Camby has done a good enough job as a four for the Clippers but I still prefer him as a five. Actually, I retract that, so long as Bargnani is the five + Camby the four, I'm happy enough with that combination ... and I like having Udonis Haslem as the first big off the bench. A true power forward who can do a better job against those players. Gives the Pistons more matchup flexibility.

I also love the depth beyond them with Rasho Nesterovic (fourth big), Josh Powell (fifth big), Kosta Koufous (sixth big). Excellent depth. All quality players in those respective roles.

However, the perimeter play is a real problem for me. All those point guards. None of whom are all that great as creators. All of whom are best off at the point and not the two. Then Rasual Butler as the glue guy to hold it together? Emm ... I don't think it will work well enough.

Still, the Pistons should hover close to .500. In that mid-to-high 30s range. And if things click very well they could finish slightly above .500.

[Who]

Brooklyn Draft Dodgers (Walker Wiggle)-
Jonny Flynn, Dwyane Wade, Mike Miller, Michael Beasley, Al Horford
Jeff Teague, Keyon Dooling, Donte Greene, Anthony Tolliver, Jason Smith

I very much like the trio of Dwyane Wade + Al Horford + Mike Miller. I think that trio lifts a squad to a 45 win squad with a decent supporting cast.

Also, like having Michael Beasley in that fourth best player role but alongside two non-prolific scorers (Horford/Miller) so his go-to scoring ability will be maximized. Miami should get good value out of him as a result.

Donte Greene is another player that I enjoy on this roster. Capable of playing two through four ... and consequently gives Miami great flexibility with it's lineups. A big lineup with Wade at the point + Greene at SG + Miller at SF + two bigs. Or a small lineup with Greene at power forward alongside one big. And everything in between. Nice flexibility.

I'm not a fan of Jonny Flynn. I always get worried when people are forced to talk about how great a character a player is because there isn't enough to talk about in terms of ability. I felt the same way when he was in college and I don't see much change as we near the end of his rookie season. I think he's a poor fit alongside Wade because of his need to have the ball in his hands offensively + poor jump shot + below average but decent defensive ability. I just don't see him adding much to the team.

Keyon Dooling is too erratic at the point. I hate his decision making and inability to run a team effectively offensively. A horrendous player to depend on in pressure situations (playoff games). I do love his defensive ability but not enough to live with his offensive game.

Jeff Teague is the best point guard on the roster and the best prospect going forward. The added scoring ability + good jump shot in college + scrappiness, willingness to fight for loose balls, to create extra possessions.  He is a good prospect. Not an ideal fit for Wade unless he gets his jump shot back.

I dislike the Anthony Tolliver and Jason Smith combination of backup bigs. Both are poor rebounders + poor defenders with good midrange jump shots. The jump shooting will help Miami, Wade in particular, offensively. I worry about their defense + rebounding though.

I love Wade's + Miller's rebounding and passing ability. I think those contributions will be a major strength for this team. Having two wings who will take a lot of pressure off the bigs on the glass and pressure off the point guards with the ball-handling/playmaking responsibilities. That's the main reason why I think Miami would be better off with a point guard like George Hill than a Jonny Flynn ... someone who needs less of the ball and is capable of making contributions off the ball.

The best four players on this roster is quite the foundation. This will be a solid playoff caliber roster.

Quite a few young players who are still improving, particularly the guards, so the squad could grow and become a 50 win team in the near future. If Beasley ever maximizes that potential (a massive if), Miami would be a major threat in the East ... in the future.

[Who]

Houston Rockets (rondo2287)-
Aaron Brooks, DeMar DeRozan, Corey Maggette, Paul Milsap, Emeka Okafor
Mike Bibby, Yi Jianlian, Ben Wallace

Three best players on the team -- Paul Millsap + Emeka Okafor + Ben Wallace.

Those three players will create a tough spine to the team. A backbone. Steel. Excellent rebounding and very good defensively. Also, will provide some good scoring between Millsap and Okafor.

DeMar DeRozan is the next most interesting player on the roster. He's not up to much in the present tense but he's a very good prospect going forward. A lot of potential as a defender + rebounder. Kind of reminds me, physically and D+R, of Nick Anderson. DeRozan is also very good off the ball offensively, has a good midrange game, and should grow as a scorer in future seasons. A potential 20ppg guy down the road + major contributor defensively and on the glass. An All-Star caliber prospect.

Corey Maggette gives the team some solid go-to scoring, as does Aaron Brooks, but neither player contributes much outside of scoring.

Yi is a poor player who shouldn't be given any court time given the strength of the Rockets' top three players. Mike Bibby creates as much damage (defensively) as he adds offensively (shooting ability, efficiency).

So, in summary, not much of a contribution from any of the players outside their three best guys. DeRozan is a very good prospect though and is a very good asset for the club.

Another team that should be somewhere around .500.

[The Walker Wiggle]

I think everyone feels the same way, Who, your involvement has been one of the highlights of this draft. (Alongside Bakhu's above and beyond work and enthusiasm.)

Obviously, I like Flynn more than you do. Chiefly, his athleticism and ability to get to the rim. But we've discussed that already. Most every other observation strikes me as spot on. And yes, I tried to keep Beasley, and put him in a position to thrive versus shopping him. Glad you liked my handiwork.

I have all the same reservations about a reserve front court of Tolliver and Smith, I do think more highly of their defense. But neither is a shot blocker or adequate muscle around the low post. I tried to address the need via Solomon Jones, a rail thin, mobile, five hard fouls to protect the rim; and Derrick Brown a long, athletic, undersized, Larry Brown tutored PF prospect.

Anyway, Draft Dodgers are at the very least better than their Miami counterparts. Also, I believe, the team wins the Southeast handily on account of Orlando's devastating backcourt injuries. (Hamilton and Dunleavy both out for much of the first half of the season.)

[Who]

I think I've said enough about several teams earlier in the thread -- Knicks + Nets + Raptors + Wizards + Magic + Nuggets + Thunder + Jazz + Grizzlies + Hornets + Lakers -- not much to add about any of them.

That leaves the Bobcats and Spurs following their big trade. The Bulls who also made a couple of trades. The Cavaliers. Maybe the Pacers, I forget if I commented on them earlier. Ditto for the Hawks + Wolves.

[Lucky17]

Who's comments on my team, from earlier in the thread:

Toronto Raptors

I'm not sure what to make of Gilbert Arenas. He has been poor this season but he's only at the early stages of his comeback attempt. He may improve and if he does he's exactly the type of prolific offensive perimeter player that this team could use.

The one major downside to Arenas is that I don't like him around JR Smith. Smith is too immature to handle playing alongside such an erratic + ball dominating point guard. So if Arenas is in the plans, then JR Smith has to go, or vice versa.

Anyway, to the rest of the team since Arenas is an X-Factor for the time being ...

Kirk Hinrich and Mario Chalmers is a good point guard rotation. Mainly because of their defense. JR Smith and Martell Webster is one of the better defensive wing combinations in the league. Combine those two elements together and you have the makings of an elite perimeter defense.

JR Smith would be the best perimeter scorer and likely a 18-20ppg threat as well as a solid passer + solid defender + solid rebounder. Martell Webster is one of the finest role players in the league with his excellent defensive play + decent rebounding (SF, good rebounding SG) and high quality complementary offensive game. Their quickness + defensive ability would make life difficult for opposing teams on a nightly basis. And, their shooting ability will keep opposing teams on their toes all night long.

There is a lack of a 3/2 type reserve player. A small forward/shooting guard. It would be preferable to have that type of role player (defender + effective offensive player) but that isn't a big deal due to Smith's + Webster's flexibility. JR Smith is a prototypical two guard who can play some time at both the three and the one while Martell Webster is a natural two guard who can double up as a three. So the Raps could field a big small forward like Jerebko or Nocioni and just keep Webster or JR Smith on the court to play the two guard position while they're out there.

Jonas Jerebko is a good utility man who can backup all three frontcourt positions. Andres Nocioni is a mediocre reserve player who provides streaky offensive player + good rebounding at the small forward position and can play the four in some small ball lineups. Nocioni is slow footed defensively at the three and struggles defensively against more PFs, that's the main reason for my interest in a quicker solid defensive reserve wing. So not the strongest at the reserve SG + SF + semi-PF positions but adequate.

Jason Thompson is a very good acquisition. He can switch between the four and five seamlessly. It allows the Raptors to put more quickness out there with their big men (Thompson vs Perkins) when required without resorting to a small ball lineup and without losing a lot of their quality rebounding.

Thompson is a very poor defensive player but he's young and capable of making large strides defensively over the next few years. He's also a skilled + versatile offensive player who is comfortable anywhere on the court. Thompson is an excellent offensive + rebounding complement to Chris Bosh when you want to put Bosh at center and create more matchup problems (very valuable!).

Nazr Mohammed is a serviceable backup center and JaVale McGee is a solid prospect at center. Nice depth as the fourth + fifth bigs in the rotation.

So, ideally -- short of acquiring an All-NBA wing -- I would like the see the Raptors add one more wing player. Someone who can play solid defense (slightly above average or better) and provide some offensive quality (either as an efficient complementary player or a go-to scorer off the bench). Also, primarily a natural small forward who is a solid rebounder (board work is important here) but is also able to matchup against some twos.

Without Gilbert Arenas, that squad is still a tad short on perimeter offense so it's important they have an effective offensive player backing up the wings. Nocioni is acceptable but Jerebko less so.

If you can't get that though, it's fine, Nocioni will do a good enough job. And Jerebko gives enough depth. Add a two guard who is a strong defensive player as a situation substitute to balance out the bench.

Postscript: since those comments, I added Damien Wilkins and Bobby Simmons, after attempts to acquire a prototypical SF fell through.

[Lucky17]

Who's comments on the Atlanta Hawks, also from earlier in the thread:

Atlanta Hawks

Let's Atlanta move Josh Smith back to his natural position at power forward and gives Joe Johnson some legitimate help on the wing with Tayshaun taking over Marvin Williams' role. That's a quality trio at SG + SF + PF.

I would like to see Atlanta start Jordan Farmer alongside them. A more creative offensive player albeit primarily as a scorer. I don't like Derek Fisher. He can do a Bibby imitation but I don't think that's valuable. I would rather see another point guard brought in to take away his minutes if possible.

The team still needs a true center to play in the middle. Someone with a bit of muscle, some defensive ability and in particular post defense + man-to-man defense because Josh Smith already brings a lot of weakside defense but not man-to-man D against opposing bigs, and some tough rebounding ability. Another Al Horford.

Chris Andersen would make a very good backup big with his energy + effort + solid defensive/rebounding/garbage man contributions. I don't like him as the starting center but he is a good piece.

I also love Ryan Anderson as the backup power forward, he has All-Star potential if he can get his defense up to a solid level and based on his defensive improvement this season that is an achievable target. It's a shame he's stuck behind Josh Smith because he could have added huge value to a team as a low valued high quality 30-35mpg power forward.

James Posey is a good secondary reserve wing but I'd rather see someone else as the primary backup wing. Or two comparable reserve talents who's minutes vary depending on matchups.

Jordan Hill isn't a rotation worthy player but he is a decent prospect. A good rebounder and a decent garbage man offensively with a solid stand still jumper out to 20 feet. Some defense would be nice though.

So, I would like to see the Hawks add another solid reserve/rotation wing + a starting center + a Fisher replacement ... to get the most out of their core/squad.

[Who]

Indiana Pacers (Slugger)-
Stephen Curry, Courtney Lee, Thaddeus Young, Lamar Odom, Nenad Krstic
JJ Barea, Shannon Brown, Chuck Hayes, Craig Smith, Zaza Pachulia

I enjoy the backcourt of Steph Curry + Courtney Lee. I think they're a good combination alongside one another. I'm a big fan of Curry's offensive potential. I think he's a special player on that side of the floor. Very few point guards can come close to his combination of shooting ability/efficiency + passing ability/floor leadership. He'll be a major difference maker to a team's offense. Lee is a very good role player with his defense and complementary scoring.

I consider Thaddeus Young a natural power forward. An undersized one but a player who is at home at that position. He plays better defense there, particularly with his team defense, and is a more effective offensive weapon. I'm not wild about the idea of trying to turn into a small forward because it hasn't worked well for the Sixers these last two seasons. Young has consistently shown his best play + most potential as a four.

Lamar Odom is a very good power forward. A notch below an All-Star. He is the team's best player.

I dislike Nenad Krstic. I don't think he's a starting center in this league. Or even a good backup. I don't think he does enough defensively or on the backboards. Offensively, he's a nice complementary weapon but that isn't enough to deserve that type of playing time. I consider him a weak point for the Oklahoma Thunder and for this Pacers team.

I like Zaza Pachulia as the main backup big men off the bench and then there's two quality secondary bigs off the bench in Chuck Hayes (defense) and Craig Smith (offense). Two players who offer very different sorts of contributions and can be played based on the opposition. Complete pro's who will ready day in day out. They'll play the same way even if they're not getting consistent playing time.

There are no backup wing players. Two backup guards. JJ Barea and Shannon Brown. I think Brown benefits greatly from the Triangle offense, especially when he plays the point, and will be less effective away from it. Barea will just as effective and a solid backup point guard for the Pacers.

I think this team wins somewhere in the low 30s. I think the team has one very good prospect in Curry, a good prospect in Young and a solid one in Lee. So there is some young talent to build around going forward but not a lot.

[Who]

Chicago Bulls (KCattheStripe)-
Derek Rose, Nicolas Batum, Danilo Gallinari, David Lee, Chris Kaman
Jrue Holiday, Brandon Rush, Marco Belinelli, Etan Thomas

An interesting team. A lot of youth. A lot of potential. Good quality across the starting five.

Let's start with the bench and work our way back to the starters. I think the bench has only one good player, Brandon Rush, in the immediate sense. Rush is the only player who I consider to be average or better in their role. He is a good defender + good rebounder + good jump shooter. A quality complementary player.

Jrue Holiday is better served as a starting point guard while playing alongside several offensive threats than used as backup guard alongside less talent at this point in his career. It makes a big difference to how effective he is. The reason is that he gets lost offensively when he's asked to shoulder more of a burden. A very good defensive player though which is what makes him a good glue guy in a starting unit. Going forward, Holiday is a good prospect and should be regarded highly. A very nice piece.

I consider Marco Belinelli more of a point guard than anything else. A decent two guard but that's also Brandon Rush's best position and he's a superior player at that spot so playing time could be hard to come by. I think Belinelli's lack of understanding of who he is as a player + lack of experience as a point will lead to a lack of playing time + lack of development. Just like it has in GSW and Toronto. He'll get squeezed and make only a minimal contribution.

I don't trust Etan Thomas at all. I don't think he should be a rotation player in this league. He is a mediocre defender + rebounder who can help a team but asking him to be the main big off the bench is too much. A second big off the bench is fine.

Derrick Rose + Nicolas Batum + Danilo Gallinari + David Lee + Chris Kaman

I think Rose needs another playmaker alongside him out on the perimeter. Frees him up to be a scorer and takes some of the workload off his plate. Something Kirk Hinrich does very well and something that a player like Joe Johnson could do at an extremely high level. I consider Gallinari a Turkoglu-like prospect (with better efficiency) so he can hopefully fulfill this role down the road. Not this season though, doesn't have enough confidence in himself.

I love the Nicolas Batum addition and enjoy seeing him as a two guard. Gives the Bulls a good defender with excellent defensive potential. A large and athletic backcourt. Great flexibility in switching defensively. A lot of quickness too. And amazing rebounding ability.

The Lee + Kaman big man tandem is a bit worrying defensively. A lot of pressure on Kaman. He puts in great effort defensively around the rim but the rest of his work on that end of the court is fairly mediocre. David Lee's inability to play adequate defense will pile on some extra pressure. Their rebounding will be superb though.

Offensively, Rose + Kaman + Lee with Gallinari + Batum playing off of them should create an above average unit and if Gallinari becomes the player I expect him to then the Bulls should become a very good-to-elite offensive team.

Defensively, I think they'll be slightly below average. Batum's reputation is greater than his ability (currently but great potential) and Lee's negative contributions are large.

[Who]

and Derrick Brown a long, athletic, undersized, Larry Brown tutored PF prospect.

You added Derrick Brown? Very nice late addition.

Brown is a very good prospect (role player wise). Excellent defensive + rebounding potential. Great flexibility in terms of position. A natural small forward who could play some as an undersized four or a big two. He has decent shooting ability and is a good finisher around the rim as well. So he should be a solid complementary player offensively.

Derrick Brown is a very good player to have. He could be your starting SF for the next decade alongside Wade. Or a sixth man who is somewhat similar to a Posey type (minus the physical toughness + possibly the dead-eye shooting depending on development). Derrick Brown has a lot of potential for a second round pick.

[Who]

Cleveland Cavaliers (Kwhit)-
Baron Davis, Arron Afflalo, Lebron James, Anderson Varejao, Channing Frye
Nate Robinson, Charlie Bell, Linas Kleiza, Antonio McDyess, Juwan Howard

An elite team largely due to the amazing abilities of LeBron James and also the defensive/rebounding contributions of Varejao + the all-round play of Baron Davis + defense of Afflalo.

The shooting ability of Channing Frye adds a good weapon offensively. Spreads the floor out and allows James + Davis to do more damage as penetrators.

I like Nate Robinson off the bench. Also, Linas Kleiza who is a good backup forward and McDyess who is a good backup big men. I don't trust Juwan Howard but he has played very well this season. Charlie Bell is a solid 9th man type.

The Cavaliers will be an elite offensive team + a very good defensive team. A contender. On the backboards, it looks like they'll struggle to be mediocre. Frye's poor rebounding is an issue but it depends on how much time they give him versus McDyess.

[Edgar]

Final thought on Orlando? 

[RebusRankin]

Boston Celtics (RebusRankin)-
Rajon Rondo, Jason Richardson, Richard Jefferson, Kevin Garnett, Joel Przybilla
Anthony Johnson, Wayne Ellington, Sam Young, JJ Hickson, Serge Ibaka

An excellent team that would be amongst the league leaders defensively and a solid offensive team.

I love the interior combination of Kevin Garnett + Joel Przybilla. Rajon Rondo gives Boston a third impact player ... and a third impact player who relies on his non-scoring contributions for his greatest impact. A rare trio.

Jason Richardson is a good scorer and rebounder who'll be a nice fit on that roster. Richard Jefferson is questionable fit offensively but a solid one, and, defensively he'll be superb. That starting five will be the best, or one of, the best in the league defensively.

I like two of the bench players, JJ Hickson and Serge Ibaka. Unfortunately, I think they'll get in each others way in terms of development. Both being prototypical power forwards who need minutes + responsibilities for the next phase of their growth. I'd rather keep Ibaka and trade Hickson. Hickson has greater possibilities but is less likely to achieve them. Ibaka, on the other hand, is already a quality defensive player + quality rebounder and he has excellent potential in both areas. A special combination.

I'm not a fan of the perimeter players off the bench. Anthony Johnson is a low level first guard off the bench. Ellington and Sam Young are both poor first wings off the bench while Young is a solid secondary wing off the bench. Ellington shouldn't be depended on for regular rotation minutes. Not yet. I see Ibaka as the only regular quality contributor off the bench.

I don't think the bench contributes enough for Boston to the best of the best but they'll remain an excellent team. A contender but slightly behind a couple of other teams.

Fair enough. I'll take it.