Still would rather trade spare parts

[droopdog7]

In spite of all the Ray trade rumors, I still would rather trade our spare parts (including TA if necessary) for a SF or PG.  I know it was turned down but something like our spare parts for Heinrich would fit the bill.

My main reasons for not wanting to trade Ray are 1), people don't realize how good his is and replacing his production will not be easy and 2), the amount of changes that a Ray deal would produce would just put this team into havoc.  There is just now way to tell what would happen to the chemistry of this team  after adding not one, but several major players. 

At the end of the day, even if we pick up a not so cap friendly players for our spare parts, we can still let Ray's contract expire and either sign him for cheap money (if he is willing) or find another solution next year.  As you can tell, I am not giving up on this year and would do whatever necessary to try and win a title this year.

[KungPoweChicken]

The problem is that TA is our best bench player.

[droopdog7]

The problem is that TA is our best bench player.

I understand.  But I don't really trust him completely either so maybe we can trade him while his stock is high.  Who knows, maybe he will be seen as something other than an expiring contract?  Either way, I do not see a role for both he and Daniels and I think Daniels is more reliable.

[celts55]

So here goes as I'm sure i will get creamed for this, but the Ray Allen you're talking about isn't the one on this team. The Ray Allen on this team is old. His shooting precentage especially 3 pointers, is way down even from last year. He's not a good defender, passer or rebounder. He turns the ball over quite a lot when he tries to handle the ball. I'm sorry, but at some point, if they play long enough, everyone loses a step, an in the NBA that's deadly. What you are trading here is an expiring contract and that's about it.
Ray seems like a great guy, good team mate,etc. But I think if you look objectivly at his game, you have to see that he is not even close to the player he was. I'm also pretty sure if you are honest with yourself, you could name a lot, not just a few, but a lot of younger players who are more consistant shooters and can add better defense, ball handling, and passing to this team.
Sorry, but that really how i see it. Ray had a great carrer but it pretty close to over.

[Gomesfan]

I wondef what it would take to get Murphy and Ford from Indy? they wanted Hickson Big Z and draft picks from Cleve. I am not say ing to trade Ray but what could we offer? Scal is a start w/ his expiring contract and draft picks but they would want other peices. Sheed? I don't know, just food for thought.

[connerhenry43]

The problem is that TA is our best bench player.

I understand.  But I don't really trust him completely either so maybe we can trade him while his stock is high.  Who knows, maybe he will be seen as something other than an expiring contract?  Either way, I do not see a role for both he and Daniels and I think Daniels is more reliable.

i keep thinking that. i would hate to give TA away….he is playing so well right now. you could argue he is expendable when daniels comes back, but we need all the good bench players we could get our hands on right now. I still think trading ray is the only way this team can win a title, but trading the spare parts for one solid player may not be a terrible idea. TA is playing very well right now, but I would not put him in the "deal-breaker" category.

[droopdog7]

So here goes as I'm sure i will get creamed for this, but the Ray Allen you're talking about isn't the one on this team. The Ray Allen on this team is old. His shooting precentage especially 3 pointers, is way down even from last year. He's not a good defender, passer or rebounder. He turns the ball over quite a lot when he tries to handle the ball. I'm sorry, but at some point, if they play long enough, everyone loses a step, an in the NBA that's deadly. What you are trading here is an expiring contract and that's about it.
Ray seems like a great guy, good team mate,etc. But I think if you look objectivly at his game, you have to see that he is not even close to the player he was. I'm also pretty sure if you are honest with yourself, you could name a lot, not just a few, but a lot of younger players who are more consistant shooters and can add better defense, ball handling, and passing to this team.
Sorry, but that really how i see it. Ray had a great carrer but it pretty close to over.

I understand this as well.  Ray is far and away on the downside of his career and isn't what he used to be.  Not that close.  But I stand by my original comment.  He is much more effective that people give him credit for.  He can still shoot better than a lot of players, is smart, and creates his shot better than many. 

I understand that there are players out there better than Ray but what are the odds that we get one of those players?  And if anyone thinks we can just plug in an athletic guy (e.g., TA) to take Ray's place, they are mistaken.  No, if we do trade Ray, we need an established two or three in return (and nothing less).  We can't even think about starting TA (or someone similar), regardless of what else comes back in the deal.

[celts55]

So here goes as I'm sure i will get creamed for this, but the Ray Allen you're talking about isn't the one on this team. The Ray Allen on this team is old. His shooting precentage especially 3 pointers, is way down even from last year. He's not a good defender, passer or rebounder. He turns the ball over quite a lot when he tries to handle the ball. I'm sorry, but at some point, if they play long enough, everyone loses a step, an in the NBA that's deadly. What you are trading here is an expiring contract and that's about it.
Ray seems like a great guy, good team mate,etc. But I think if you look objectivly at his game, you have to see that he is not even close to the player he was. I'm also pretty sure if you are honest with yourself, you could name a lot, not just a few, but a lot of younger players who are more consistant shooters and can add better defense, ball handling, and passing to this team.
Sorry, but that really how i see it. Ray had a great carrer but it pretty close to over.

I understand this as well.  Ray is far and away on the downside of his career and isn't what he used to be.  Not that close.  But I stand by my original comment.  He is much more effective that people give him credit for.  He can still shoot better than a lot of players, is smart, and creates his shot better than many. 
I understand that there are players out there better than Ray but what are the odds that we get one of those players?  And if anyone thinks we can just plug in an athletic guy (e.g., TA) to take Ray's place, they are mistaken.  No, if we do trade Ray, we need an established two or three in return (and nothing less).  We can't even think about starting TA (or someone similar), regardless of what else comes back in the deal.

I'm not sure what you mean by shoots better than a lot of players. Yeah he shoots better than say Perkins or Howard, but not than most 2 guards. I guess he's smart or at least he reads a lot of books. As for creating his own shot, I believe that is one of the things he does worst. His best shot is coming off a pick and getting the ball delivered to him.
Listen, I don't want to sit here a rip on Ray. He's reallt been one of my all time favorite players, I just think it's okay to look at him objectively. And no I don;t think Tony Allen is the answer, but if say Philly was interested in moving Izzy for Ray, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I don't see why you think it would be so difficult to plug someone who is athletic into that spot would be a problem. Prehaps they could guard someone.

[droopdog7]

So here goes as I'm sure i will get creamed for this, but the Ray Allen you're talking about isn't the one on this team. The Ray Allen on this team is old. His shooting precentage especially 3 pointers, is way down even from last year. He's not a good defender, passer or rebounder. He turns the ball over quite a lot when he tries to handle the ball. I'm sorry, but at some point, if they play long enough, everyone loses a step, an in the NBA that's deadly. What you are trading here is an expiring contract and that's about it.
Ray seems like a great guy, good team mate,etc. But I think if you look objectivly at his game, you have to see that he is not even close to the player he was. I'm also pretty sure if you are honest with yourself, you could name a lot, not just a few, but a lot of younger players who are more consistant shooters and can add better defense, ball handling, and passing to this team.
Sorry, but that really how i see it. Ray had a great carrer but it pretty close to over.

I understand this as well.  Ray is far and away on the downside of his career and isn't what he used to be.  Not that close.  But I stand by my original comment.  He is much more effective that people give him credit for.  He can still shoot better than a lot of players, is smart, and creates his shot better than many. 
I understand that there are players out there better than Ray but what are the odds that we get one of those players?  And if anyone thinks we can just plug in an athletic guy (e.g., TA) to take Ray's place, they are mistaken.  No, if we do trade Ray, we need an established two or three in return (and nothing less).  We can't even think about starting TA (or someone similar), regardless of what else comes back in the deal.

I'm not sure what you mean by shoots better than a lot of players. Yeah he shoots better than say Perkins or Howard, but not than most 2 guards. I guess he's smart or at least he reads a lot of books. As for creating his own shot, I believe that is one of the things he does worst. His best shot is coming off a pick and getting the ball delivered to him.
Listen, I don't want to sit here a rip on Ray. He's reallt been one of my all time favorite players, I just think it's okay to look at him objectively. And no I don;t think Tony Allen is the answer, but if say Philly was interested in moving Izzy for Ray, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I don't see why you think it would be so difficult to plug someone who is athletic into that spot would be a problem. Prehaps they could guard someone.

Like I said, many here continue to underestimate what Ray brings to the table.  As far as shooting, Ray is obviously one of th greatest shooters this game has ever seen.  Is he slumping now or is his shooting degrading?  That remains to be seen but I have confidence that the man can shoot.  And yes, Ray is a smart basketball player and I suppose that will always be underestimated.

And most fans continue to misread Rays ability to get his shot.  I still am stunned by the general opinion that all Ray is is a shooter.  I am sorry but this is about as inaccurate as it gets.  Yes, he does a lot of his work before getting the ball but that counts too.  Once in position, he is usually able to get where he wants to get and either get a shot off or pass.  In the open court, he finishes very well.  Ray isn't spectacular but he is effective at getting his shot.

As far as Iggy for Ray, sure I probably would do that.  But is that trade happening?  Is it realistic?  I don't know, I am just asking.  And let's not forget the finances.  As has already been mentioned, Danny seems to be looking for an expiring contract along with a player for Ray.  If we get that kind of deal, we almost assuredly will downgrade our roster.  The reason of course is finances.  It doesn't look like we can absorb the financial hit of trading Ray after this year, as part of the plan is just to let him walk (and save some money).

Not to mention that some of the other rumors seem to involove multiple players (e.g., the Chicago rumors).  If these are more realistic, then chemistry should be cause for concern when integrating a handful of players into the rotation.

[fanofgreen]

So here goes as I'm sure i will get creamed for this, but the Ray Allen you're talking about isn't the one on this team. The Ray Allen on this team is old. His shooting precentage especially 3 pointers, is way down even from last year. He's not a good defender, passer or rebounder. He turns the ball over quite a lot when he tries to handle the ball. I'm sorry, but at some point, if they play long enough, everyone loses a step, an in the NBA that's deadly. What you are trading here is an expiring contract and that's about it.
Ray seems like a great guy, good team mate,etc. But I think if you look objectivly at his game, you have to see that he is not even close to the player he was. I'm also pretty sure if you are honest with yourself, you could name a lot, not just a few, but a lot of younger players who are more consistant shooters and can add better defense, ball handling, and passing to this team.
Sorry, but that really how i see it. Ray had a great carrer but it pretty close to over.

you said about Ray: "shooting percentage on 3's is way down, not a good defender, not a good passer, not a good rebounder, turns the ball over a lot when he tries to handle the ball"

DOES THAT NOT SOUND LIKE AN EXACT DEFINITION OF OUR ENTIRE BENCH??

shooting percentage down on 3's= Sheed, House
not a good defender=Baby, House, Scal
not a good passer=house, Baby, TA,
not a good rebounder=Baby, TA, Scal, Sheed
turns the ball over when tries to handle the ball= TA, House, Baby

When i read that statement, thats what i thought of, our entire bench.

Also, Vince Carter is a better player than Turkoglu.....but you can't tell me Orlando wouldn't rather have Hedo right now instead of Vince.

Sometimes, certain players are just better fits in certain situations.

[SalmonAndMashedPotatoes]

If we're trading 'spare parts' then it really doesn't matter which ones they are--they're being traded simply because they're expiring.  As such, you start with the sparest of the spare--Eddie House, Giddens, Scal, and Williams.

TA and Daniels are similar players--but they're both miles better than anyone else we have coming off the bench to play 1/2/3.  In fact, they're probably better than Ray Allen at this point, at least at everything that doesn't involve shooting the ball.  And, considering TA and Daniels' injury prone-ness, I don't know how wise it is to 'count' on one or the other being healthy come playoff time.  Ergo, you keep both and you play them TOGETHER.

Frankly, I can't wait until both Daniels and TA are terrorizing opposing teams.  We talk about being a defensive team--and those 2 are two reason why we still might be.  We need players who can defend the perimeter--and those are our two best.  You CAN play them together, especially if you enjoy STOPPING the other team from scoring.

[droopdog7]

Sorry but I have concerns about playing two guys together that can't shoot a lick. And sorry but TA is not better than Ray.

[crownsy]

I think everyone would rather trade spare parts than ray allen.

The problem is i question what any of the other 29 teams would give us a player who could make an impact for our spare parts. Our spare parts are arguably not as good as ANY of the other contending teams spare parts, trade value wise.

[JSD]

I think everyone would rather trade spare parts than ray allen.

The problem is i question what any of the other 29 teams would give us a player who could make an impact for our spare parts. Our spare parts are arguably not as good as ANY of the other contending teams spare parts, trade value wise.

Well, one could say that our spare parts (consisting of primarily expiring contracts) have never been more valuable. Isn't the cap room the primary goal for most of these teams looking to deal quality players?

[crownsy]

I think everyone would rather trade spare parts than ray allen.

The problem is i question what any of the other 29 teams would give us a player who could make an impact for our spare parts. Our spare parts are arguably not as good as ANY of the other contending teams spare parts, trade value wise.

Well, one could say that our spare parts (consisting of primarily expiring contracts) have never been more valuable. Isn't the cap room the primary goal for most of these teams looking to deal quality players?

removing ray though, who's our expirings? TA and scal?

Pretty sure (though could easily be wrong) that CLEV, LA and even the magic can dig up better players who's expirings add to that kind of money.