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Why Golden State Needs Ray
« on: January 26, 2010, 04:55:09 PM »

Offline Michael Anthony

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Assuming:

R. Allen, G. Davis, House, Scal, T. Allen
for
Ellis, Maggette, Radmanovic, Turiaf

Golden state has a top 5 loto pick, enough room to sign a max free agent, no headcases, and the following roster going into the off season:

Curry
Morrow
Azubuike
Randolph / Wright
Biedrins / G. Davis

That has to be more attractive to a free agent than New Jersey or New York from a talent perspective, plus they are in California - 5 hours from Oakland to LA. Only Miami presents a more attractive option.

Add Lebron and they are looking at 55+ wins
Add Wade and they are looking at 50-55 wins
Add Johnson and they are looking at 45-50 wins
Add Gay and they are looking at 38-42 wins
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Re: Why Golden State Needs Ray
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2010, 05:12:06 PM »

Offline Jon

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If the players on the Warriors were nearly as good as their stats indicated they are, the Warriors wouldn't suck so badly. 

I don't want any player from that toxic wasteland. 
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Re: Why Golden State Needs Ray
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2010, 05:26:31 PM »

Offline rondohondo

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Quote from: Jon on January 26, 2010, 05:12:06 PM
If the players on the Warriors were nearly as good as their stats indicated they are, the Warriors wouldn't suck so badly. 

I don't want any player from that toxic wasteland. 

That's a pretty ridiculous thing to say. I would take a lot of their players if the offer was right. They have some very talented young players.
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Re: Why Golden State Needs Ray
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2010, 05:28:39 PM »

Offline thebirdman

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I am sure the owners would love the trade... ::) Our payroll would be over $100 million next season...
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Re: Why Golden State Needs Ray
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2010, 05:31:12 PM »

Offline Jon

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Quote from: rondohondo on January 26, 2010, 05:26:31 PM
Quote from: Jon on January 26, 2010, 05:12:06 PM
If the players on the Warriors were nearly as good as their stats indicated they are, the Warriors wouldn't suck so badly. 

I don't want any player from that toxic wasteland. 

That's a pretty ridiculous thing to say. I would take a lot of their players if the offer was right. They have some very talented young players.

While I'll admit I was being hyperbolic, the point remains.  Good, but not even close to great, players get overrated on bad teams.  If anyone on Golden State was close to what they're stats suggested they were, they wouldn't be so bad. 
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Re: Why Golden State Needs Ray
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2010, 05:38:41 PM »

Offline sk7326

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Warriors have a ton of raw talent.  That is a poisonous situation and Nellie is coaching like he's trying to get fired.  This was an up and coming team as recently as two years ago before management imploded it.  Obviously you shop carefully, but good god, Anthony Randolph's talent is ridiculous - and coming to a good situation with a guy like KG whose skill set is a kindred spirit.  He is worth a hard look. 

Word is Warriors have been demanding someone take Corey Maggette along with it.  For what Maggette is - a pure scorer who would be a terrific sixth man - his salary is not bad.  There is some real opportunity here.
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Re: Why Golden State Needs Ray
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2010, 06:08:46 PM »

Offline D Dub

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Quote from: Michael Anthony on January 26, 2010, 04:55:09 PM
Assuming:

R. Allen, G. Davis, House, Scal, T. Allen
for
Ellis, Maggette, Radmanovic, Turiaf

Golden state has a top 5 loto pick, enough room to sign a max free agent, no headcases, and the following roster going into the off season:

Curry
Morrow
Azubuike
Randolph / Wright
Biedrins / G. Davis

That has to be more attractive to a free agent than New Jersey or New York from a talent perspective, plus they are in California - 5 hours from Oakland to LA. Only Miami presents a more attractive option.

Add Lebron and they are looking at 55+ wins
Add Wade and they are looking at 50-55 wins
Add Johnson and they are looking at 45-50 wins
Add Gay and they are looking at 38-42 wins

Seems logical enough to me from a GS standpoint.

I dare you to go post that on their board though  :D 

When I followed Jeff's link to their site yesterday, most of their fans seemed pretty irate at the thought of dumping the salary of one of their best players.
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Re: Why Golden State Needs Ray
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2010, 06:10:04 PM »

Offline rondohondo

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Quote from: sk7326 on January 26, 2010, 05:38:41 PM
Warriors have a ton of raw talent.  That is a poisonous situation and Nellie is coaching like he's trying to get fired.  This was an up and coming team as recently as two years ago before management imploded it.  Obviously you shop carefully, but good god, Anthony Randolph's talent is ridiculous - and coming to a good situation with a guy like KG whose skill set is a kindred spirit.  He is worth a hard look. 

Word is Warriors have been demanding someone take Corey Maggette along with it.  For what Maggette is - a pure scorer who would be a terrific sixth man - his salary is not bad.  There is some real opportunity here.

Yea that woukd be a great package.

Bos sends: Ray , Walker , BBD & future 1st rd pick
GS. Sends: Maggette , Bell & Randolph


I would do that deal no doubt. Like you said we would have our PF of the future learing from some of the most talented big men of the past 15 years and Clifford Ray.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2010, 06:19:45 PM by rondohondo »
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Re: Why Golden State Needs Ray
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2010, 07:00:12 PM »

Offline Jon

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Quote from: rondohondo on January 26, 2010, 06:10:04 PM
Quote from: sk7326 on January 26, 2010, 05:38:41 PM
Warriors have a ton of raw talent.  That is a poisonous situation and Nellie is coaching like he's trying to get fired.  This was an up and coming team as recently as two years ago before management imploded it.  Obviously you shop carefully, but good god, Anthony Randolph's talent is ridiculous - and coming to a good situation with a guy like KG whose skill set is a kindred spirit.  He is worth a hard look. 

Word is Warriors have been demanding someone take Corey Maggette along with it.  For what Maggette is - a pure scorer who would be a terrific sixth man - his salary is not bad.  There is some real opportunity here.

Yea that woukd be a great package.

Bos sends: Ray , Walker , BBD & future 1st rd pick
GS. Sends: Maggette , Bell & Randolph


I would do that deal no doubt. Like you said we would have our PF of the future learing from some of the most talented big men of the past 15 years and Clifford Ray.

Maybe.  But the PF of the future doesn't matter at all if the team doesn't win a title the next two years. 
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Re: Why Golden State Needs Ray
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2010, 07:22:02 AM »

Offline scoop

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I don't see that much talent in GSW.

Ellis is an undersized SG, ball-dominant, one-dimensional scorer.

Maggette is a ball-dominant, ball-stopper, selfish scorer.

Biedrins is one of the worst defensive bigs in the league. Perhaps in the history of the league. 

Azubuike's injury is of the kind that ends careers more often than not.

Randolph has tremendous upside (terrific athleticism+natural talent/intuition for the game), but after almost 2 seasons in the league he's still a man without a position who is very mistaken prone - it's impossible to predict if he'll actually pan out or not. The allegations about his work ethic are concerning.

That leaves them with Curry, Morrow and Wright - a decent core, but far from spectacular. But if they can trade Ellis, Maggette and Radmanovic for expirings, they should do it.
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Re: Why Golden State Needs Ray
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2010, 07:26:01 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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Quote from: rondohondo on January 26, 2010, 05:26:31 PM
Quote from: Jon on January 26, 2010, 05:12:06 PM
If the players on the Warriors were nearly as good as their stats indicated they are, the Warriors wouldn't suck so badly. 

I don't want any player from that toxic wasteland. 

That's a pretty ridiculous thing to say. I would take a lot of their players if the offer was right. They have some very talented young players.

They have players that have talents to fit into Nellie ball. 

We have seen a lot of Nellie ball stars be nothing but average players outside of Nellie ball. 


While certain players would be nice to have, I would not be trading the any of the Celtics starters for them right now. 
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Re: Why Golden State Needs Ray
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2010, 07:45:01 AM »

Offline sk7326

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Quote from: scoop on January 27, 2010, 07:22:02 AM
I don't see that much talent in GSW.

Ellis is an undersized SG, ball-dominant, one-dimensional scorer.

Maggette is a ball-dominant, ball-stopper, selfish scorer.

Biedrins is one of the worst defensive bigs in the league. Perhaps in the history of the league. 

Azubuike's injury is of the kind that ends careers more often than not.

Randolph has tremendous upside (terrific athleticism+natural talent/intuition for the game), but after almost 2 seasons in the league he's still a man without a position who is very mistaken prone - it's impossible to predict if he'll actually pan out or not. The allegations about his work ethic are concerning.

That leaves them with Curry, Morrow and Wright - a decent core, but far from spectacular. But if they can trade Ellis, Maggette and Radmanovic for expirings, they should do it.

Biedrins is meh defensively but a great rebounder - we are a lousy rebounding team ... I wouldn't pay for him

Maggette your characterization is harsh - he is a pure scorer, but one of the best in the league and with a reasonable deal.  As a starter he'd be a ball stopper, as a sixth man he's invaluable.  As you might have noticed, our bench is terrible.  Maggette becomes the anchor immediately.

Randolph - the questions about his work ethic come from GS insiders - when his per minute productivity is high.  Nelson refuses to play him or Brandan Wright and seem focused on ruining their careers ... I mean he was giving Randolph minutes instead of Mikki Moore's corpse.  That was completely indefensible and a fireable offense.
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Re: Why Golden State Needs Ray
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2010, 08:50:11 AM »

Offline moiso

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Golden State has a lot of raw talent but most of the players are underdeveloped as far as a well rounded games.  A lot of it is due to injuries and Nelson.  And it seems like they could use a Phoenix style training staff- the injuries are really messing with player development.
One thing I've noticed- in this past week that Ellis has been out, Curry has stepped into his role and has put up Ellis numbers while playing more efficient ball.  What does that say about Ellis?
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Re: Why Golden State Needs Ray
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2010, 09:39:47 AM »

Offline sk7326

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Quote from: moiso on January 27, 2010, 08:50:11 AM
Golden State has a lot of raw talent but most of the players are underdeveloped as far as a well rounded games.  A lot of it is due to injuries and Nelson.  And it seems like they could use a Phoenix style training staff- the injuries are really messing with player development.
One thing I've noticed- in this past week that Ellis has been out, Curry has stepped into his role and has put up Ellis numbers while playing more efficient ball.  What does that say about Ellis?

Warriors play BY FAR the fastest pace in the league, the Celtics play the 4th slowest ... so consider any counting stats (scoring, rebounding) to be suspect with GS players.  Ellis piles up his numbers with a lot of touches (too many).  Maggette does not, and Randolph adds value without touches at all (albeit very raw - the talent is jaw dropping and would be highway robbery if the Celts traded a pu pu platter for it).
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