Ray minutes Up & Up

[Change]

Doc is doing it again. Halfway through the season, and Doc running Ray to the ground again. I don't understand why is Kevin Garnett is the only Celtics getting especial treatment. Ray is older with fragile ankles. And he is chasing perimeter players all day. Is it that hard to give Bill Walker 3-4 minutes a game to keep Ray Allen fresh. Shouldn't Last season be an indication for Doc. When will Doc understand?

[Redz]

What special treatment did KG get?

[Change]

What special treatment did KG get?

6 less Minutes a game, and less games played due to 'injury'. Celtics handle KG like a baby. Him not being with the team when he misses games. It was funny seeing Sheed cheering his team from the sideline, and KG the heart and the soul of the team not being there.

[wdleehi]

Averaging 37 minutes a night the last two months is not a great thing.

[ManUp]

Doc seems to think that Ray being in great shape translates into him not needing to rest.

[Donoghus]

What special treatment did KG get?

6 less Minutes a game, and less games played for 'injury'.

KG was also coming off a season-ending injury. Ray was not.

Ray is, arguably, the best conditioned athlete on the Celtics and you can manage to throw him out there for a few extra minutes.  The guy's endurance is pretty spectacular.  

Obviously, I don't want him out there 38 minutes + every game but you can't really compare Ray vs. KG.  Besides being over 30, the circumstances are pretty different.

[yoursweatersux]

I think the whole concept of resting a player is pretty bogus.

Think of Olympic marathon runners... they run absolutely absurd amounts, day in and day out. It's called CONDITIONING. According to the NBA theory of rest, Lance Armstrong shouldn't train. He should just stay off his bike for 3 months before the Tour De France so that he'll be "rested". That's ridiculous.

The funny thing is, if you look at the players who play the most minutes in the NBA, they never complain about being tired. It's because their body adjusts to it.

Now, it's different when a player is injured or coming off of injury. Injuries get aggravated by a lack of rest, so that's legit. KG should get less burn than everybody else.

Look at the Phoenix Suns when Dantoni was coaching them... they ran the fastest team in the league with a rotation of only like 7 or 8 guys. Did they get tired? NO, because they ADJUSTED to it.

I think, barring injury, a team's best players should be pushed to their limits on a nightly basis. This conditions their bodies, and allows them to play longer without fatigue. Yeah, it might tire them out at first, but eventually they'll be used to it, and voila, now your starters can stay in to light up the other team's 2nd string while their stars are resting. It's a huge advantage.

[BballTim]

Doc is doing it again. Halfway through the season, and Doc running Ray to the ground again. I don't understand why is Kevin Garnett is the only Celtics getting especial treatment. Ray is older with fragile ankles. And he is chasing perimeter players all day. Is it that hard to give Bill Walker 3-4 minutes a game to keep Ray Allen fresh. Shouldn't Last season be an indication for Doc. When will Doc understand?

  Can you give us any recent evidence that Ray has fragile ankles?

[Kiorrik]

I think the whole concept of resting a player is pretty bogus.

Think of Olympic marathon runners... they run absolutely absurd amounts, day in and day out. It's called CONDITIONING. According to the NBA theory of rest, Lance Armstrong shouldn't train. He should just stay off his bike for 3 months before the Tour De France so that he'll be "rested". That's ridiculous.

The funny thing is, if you look at the players who play the most minutes in the NBA, they never complain about being tired. It's because their body adjusts to it.

Now, it's different when a player is injured or coming off of injury. Injuries get aggravated by a lack of rest, so that's legit. KG should get less burn than everybody else.

Look at the Phoenix Suns when Dantoni was coaching them... they ran the fastest team in the league with a rotation of only like 7 or 8 guys. Did they get tired? NO, because they ADJUSTED to it.

I think, barring injury, a team's best players should be pushed to their limits on a nightly basis. This conditions their bodies, and allows them to play longer without fatigue. Yeah, it might tire them out at first, but eventually they'll be used to it, and voila, now your starters can stay in to light up the other team's 2nd string while their stars are resting. It's a huge advantage.

You can not compare cycling or marathon running to basketball, buddy. There's such a big difference in conditioning for different types of games. The most important one is that basketball requires interval conditioning. Interval is about pushing hard for short spurts, while marathon conditioning is all about pushing for 2 hours on end.

That said, I think Ray *is* tired. I think it shows too; in his numbers.

[jdpapa3]

Yea, basketball minutes that involve cutting, physical contact constantly, and 1 on 1 defense is very taxing on the body. I don't care how "in shape" he is because he is 34 years old and we need him in the playoffs.

[yoursweatersux]

I think the whole concept of resting a player is pretty bogus.

Think of Olympic marathon runners... they run absolutely absurd amounts, day in and day out. It's called CONDITIONING. According to the NBA theory of rest, Lance Armstrong shouldn't train. He should just stay off his bike for 3 months before the Tour De France so that he'll be "rested". That's ridiculous.

The funny thing is, if you look at the players who play the most minutes in the NBA, they never complain about being tired. It's because their body adjusts to it.

Now, it's different when a player is injured or coming off of injury. Injuries get aggravated by a lack of rest, so that's legit. KG should get less burn than everybody else.

Look at the Phoenix Suns when Dantoni was coaching them... they ran the fastest team in the league with a rotation of only like 7 or 8 guys. Did they get tired? NO, because they ADJUSTED to it.

I think, barring injury, a team's best players should be pushed to their limits on a nightly basis. This conditions their bodies, and allows them to play longer without fatigue. Yeah, it might tire them out at first, but eventually they'll be used to it, and voila, now your starters can stay in to light up the other team's 2nd string while their stars are resting. It's a huge advantage.

You can not compare cycling or marathon running to basketball, buddy. There's such a big difference in conditioning for different types of games. The most important one is that basketball requires interval conditioning. Interval is about pushing hard for short spurts, while marathon conditioning is all about pushing for 2 hours on end.

That said, I think Ray *is* tired. I think it shows too; in his numbers.

You don't think Olympic high-jumpers, sprinters, etc. train daily too?

Face it, the most elite athletes in the worlds, the ones that set records, train daily (usually multiple times a day). And you know what? They don't wake up the next day feeling progressively more and more tired... their bodies adjust. Many of these athletes train even the day before big events.

To give a personal example, I went on a ski trip last winter out west to a pretty extreme mountain for 5 days. I ski aggressively. By the 4th day, I'll admit I was tired and sore. If I wanted to ski better on day number 5, I knew I'd have to rest a little bit on day 4. So that's what I did, and the rest helped. HOWEVER, the only reason I was even tired by the 4th day was because I wasn't used to skiing every day for consecutive days. This is where conditioning comes in... there were locals there that would ski every day of the season, all day, down the most challenging slopes. They didn't get tired. It wasn't magic... it was the simple fact that they conditioned themselves for it. They might have dragged ass a bit in the beginning of the season while they "got back into shape" but by the end of the season they weren't more tired... they were actually less tired because of all the conditioning.

Moral of the story: rest is only useful if you're out of shape to begin with. NBA athletes are pro athletes... they shouldn't need rest in the middle of the season.

[Kiorrik]

I think the whole concept of resting a player is pretty bogus.

Think of Olympic marathon runners... they run absolutely absurd amounts, day in and day out. It's called CONDITIONING. According to the NBA theory of rest, Lance Armstrong shouldn't train. He should just stay off his bike for 3 months before the Tour De France so that he'll be "rested". That's ridiculous.

The funny thing is, if you look at the players who play the most minutes in the NBA, they never complain about being tired. It's because their body adjusts to it.

Now, it's different when a player is injured or coming off of injury. Injuries get aggravated by a lack of rest, so that's legit. KG should get less burn than everybody else.

Look at the Phoenix Suns when Dantoni was coaching them... they ran the fastest team in the league with a rotation of only like 7 or 8 guys. Did they get tired? NO, because they ADJUSTED to it.

I think, barring injury, a team's best players should be pushed to their limits on a nightly basis. This conditions their bodies, and allows them to play longer without fatigue. Yeah, it might tire them out at first, but eventually they'll be used to it, and voila, now your starters can stay in to light up the other team's 2nd string while their stars are resting. It's a huge advantage.

You can not compare cycling or marathon running to basketball, buddy. There's such a big difference in conditioning for different types of games. The most important one is that basketball requires interval conditioning. Interval is about pushing hard for short spurts, while marathon conditioning is all about pushing for 2 hours on end.

That said, I think Ray *is* tired. I think it shows too; in his numbers.

You don't think Olympic high-jumpers, sprinters, etc. train daily too?

Face it, the most elite athletes in the worlds, the ones that set records, train daily (usually multiple times a day). And you know what? They don't wake up the next day feeling progressively more and more tired... their bodies adjust. Many of these athletes train even the day before big events.

To give a personal example, I went on a ski trip last winter out west to a pretty extreme mountain for 5 days. I ski aggressively. By the 4th day, I'll admit I was tired and sore. If I wanted to ski better on day number 5, I knew I'd have to rest a little bit on day 4. So that's what I did, and the rest helped. HOWEVER, the only reason I was even tired by the 4th day was because I wasn't used to skiing every day for consecutive days. This is where conditioning comes in... there were locals there that would ski every day of the season, all day, down the most challenging slopes. They didn't get tired. It wasn't magic... it was the simple fact that they conditioned themselves for it. They might have dragged ass a bit in the beginning of the season while they "got back into shape" but by the end of the season they weren't more tired... they were actually less tired because of all the conditioning.

Moral of the story: rest is only useful if you're out of shape to begin with. NBA athletes are pro athletes... they shouldn't need rest in the middle of the season.

Like I said; you can't compare sports. Highjumping, sprint, etc, it's all different conditioning. Basketball works in bursts, sprint is one burst, even soccer requires different conditioning. And with training on a daily base; training can be done in many, many different ways. Strength, conditioning, cardio, there's lots of things to train.

However, during a game, you give it your all to a whole different extend. You stop noticing fatigue, one of the reasons is adrenaline pushing you way further. That's what wears the body down I guess. That's why back-to-backs are harder than game-practice-game.

Rest *is* useful. And needed.

[2short]

Actually PP looks "tired".  All the c's except scal  are world class athletes.  The vets might look tired at end of games because they are playing (or should be) at 100% for too many minutes.  Maybe the bench has faltered recently but at the beginning of the season they were extending leads.  Ray was not hitting last night go with tony or a sub and let them play through mistakes just like ray was allowed.  Doc doesn't trust anyone but his starters usually and tends to pile too many minutes on ray & paul.  Ray has had off shooting areas throughout his career (and college).  Eddie is in the same boat.  A big point is 'sheed has to be on the low post, he's our most effective low post option BY FAR and with someone low it spaces the floor for ray/paul/eddie.  I don't want to see rasheed taking 3's unless he's the trailer on plays ala McHale.