I'm begging you Danny, get a back up point guard

[Chris]

Here is the problem Danny is facing right now.  If Daniels is healthy, they are probably OK at PG.  He can handle the duties well enough to get Rondo his rest and keep House off the ball.  

However, it looks like Daniels will be out for at least another month, and who knows if he will remain healthy after that.  So can they stick it out with Tony Allen as the second ball handler (and I use that term VERY loosely) for that long?

And of course making things even worse is the fact that there just aren't many other options out there right now, and this team may have bigger holes to fill at the trade deadline if they want to use their expiring contracts.  For example, if KG doesn't get better soon, they might need to start looking at bringing in another athletic big man.

Ultimately, I think Danny is going to wait it out.  He will keep his eyes on the waivers to see if someone comes free, and he will stay open to ideas for trades.  But unless another injury happens, he will probably try to stick it out until the trade deadline, and buyouts.

If you recall, even before he was hurt, daniels wasn't really bringing the ball up much anyway. For some reason it seemed that Ray Allen, Pierce or House were handling the ball anyway. I remember because it was pretty frustrating to watch. I thought he did okay with the ball, but for some reason Doc didn't seem to feel confortable with him having it.

Bringing the ball up means very little.  Generally, when Rondo is not in the game, that is determined by how the other team is defending certain players.  What does matter is who was handling the ball in the halfcourt, and Daniels was doing that a great deal.

[ScoobyDoo]

TP, and good post and I agree. You would think that Ainge, being a guard himself would understand the value of having a legitimate, proven point behind Rondo. He's had three years nwo to do it but hasn't. In those three years, he certainly could have found someone. And they don't have to an all star, jsut a reliable vet guy who can hit a few shots here and there and run the offense. Not a big deal.

It's basically ok if Rondo is healthy...god forbid he goes down, we;ve got nothing legit behind him.

Ainge also did the same play team wide last year.
No legit back ups for Perkins, Pierce, Ray or Rondo. Baby and Powe were solid behind KG but other than that, marginal back ups at every position.

This along with the obvious and unfortunate injuries to KG and powe cost us the ring.

The last comment I'd have is that a true point who could push, make a few drive and dishes and hit a fe shots would make our second unit infinately more deadly.

I don't know who's out there but there has to be someone.

Personally, I would have been force feeding Lester minutes, really push him and put him under fire to see if, with playign time and getting his lumps early, he cold break through.

Or as someone else said, just give TA the job and let him do it nightly, consistently. Though I don't really like TA there, he can at least penetrate better than Eddie and both Pierce and Ray at the top of the key initiating the offense is like a nightmare to me.  

[fanofgreen]

Here is the problem Danny is facing right now.  If Daniels is healthy, they are probably OK at PG.  He can handle the duties well enough to get Rondo his rest and keep House off the ball.  

However, it looks like Daniels will be out for at least another month, and who knows if he will remain healthy after that.  So can they stick it out with Tony Allen as the second ball handler (and I use that term VERY loosely) for that long?

And of course making things even worse is the fact that there just aren't many other options out there right now, and this team may have bigger holes to fill at the trade deadline if they want to use their expiring contracts.  For example, if KG doesn't get better soon, they might need to start looking at bringing in another athletic big man.

Ultimately, I think Danny is going to wait it out.  He will keep his eyes on the waivers to see if someone comes free, and he will stay open to ideas for trades.  But unless another injury happens, he will probably try to stick it out until the trade deadline, and buyouts.

But here's the thing. If Tony is going to be our 2nd ball handler or backup pg, that only means that those 8-10 minutes Tony is being backup point guard is 8-10 minutes of rest Ray or Paul will not get. Increasing their minutes.

[fanofgreen]

Keyon dooling.

Thats who i want also

[liam]

TP, and good post and I agree. You would think that Ainge, being a guard himself would understand the value of having a legitimate, proven point behind Rondo. He's had three years nwo to do it but hasn't. In those three years, he certainly could have found someone. And they don't have to an all star, jsut a reliable vet guy who can hit a few shots here and there and run the offense. Not a big deal.

It's basically ok if Rondo is healthy...god forbid he goes down, we;ve got nothing legit behind him.

Ainge also did the same play team wide last year.
No legit back ups for Perkins, Pierce, Ray or Rondo. Baby and Powe were solid behind KG but other than that, marginal back ups at every position.

This along with the obvious and unfortunate injuries to KG and powe cost us the ring.

The last comment I'd have is that a true point who could push, make a few drive and dishes and hit a fe shots would make our second unit infinately more deadly.

I don't know who's out there but there has to be someone.

Personally, I would have been force feeding Lester minutes, really push him and put him under fire to see if, with playign time and getting his lumps early, he cold break through.

Or as someone else said, just give TA the job and let him do it nightly, consistently. Though I don't really like TA there, he can at least penetrate better than Eddie and both Pierce and Ray at the top of the key initiating the offense is like a nightmare to me.  

The teams Ainge played on didn't have a "real" point guard. DJ was a scoring guard and so was Ainge. Jerry Sichting was kind of an Eddie House point. EVeryone on those teams could pass and setup shots so they didn't need a "Real" point guard.

[ScoobyDoo]

True re Ray and Paul's minutes. Ideally I'd love to see a trade at the deadline for a decent samll forward wing defender and a back up vet point. Not sure where the trade is that can produce that but it would be nice.

Then you could leave Marquis and Eddie behind Ray, and put the Vet point behind Rondo, the small forward wing defender behind Pierce.

 

[Chris]

Here is the problem Danny is facing right now.  If Daniels is healthy, they are probably OK at PG.  He can handle the duties well enough to get Rondo his rest and keep House off the ball.  

However, it looks like Daniels will be out for at least another month, and who knows if he will remain healthy after that.  So can they stick it out with Tony Allen as the second ball handler (and I use that term VERY loosely) for that long?

And of course making things even worse is the fact that there just aren't many other options out there right now, and this team may have bigger holes to fill at the trade deadline if they want to use their expiring contracts.  For example, if KG doesn't get better soon, they might need to start looking at bringing in another athletic big man.

Ultimately, I think Danny is going to wait it out.  He will keep his eyes on the waivers to see if someone comes free, and he will stay open to ideas for trades.  But unless another injury happens, he will probably try to stick it out until the trade deadline, and buyouts.

But here's the thing. If Tony is going to be our 2nd ball handler or backup pg, that only means that those 8-10 minutes Tony is being backup point guard is 8-10 minutes of rest Ray or Paul will not get. Increasing their minutes.

Oh, I agree (although with Tony at PG, that means House is playing SG to give those guys a rest).  If Danny is going to continue to wait it out, Doc needs to find someone else to put in the rotation.  He had been using Scal at SF before Wallace went down, but that wasn't working too well.  So Doc probably needs to bite the Bullet and give Giddens or Walker some time right now, just to give some other guys some rest.

The other option would be a 10 day contract, but I really don't see anyone out there who could step in right now and give this team minutes.

[ScoobyDoo]

True and agreed re the Ainge/DJ and Sichting Trio. But while Eddie and Sichting are comparable as you say, both Aing and DJ could initiate and run the offense fairly well. DJ the best and Ainge was certainly much better than Sichting at doing it.

Here, we Rondo who's a stud, Eddie who struggles far more than  sichting did at the point and Ray who isn't even in the same zip code as DJ or Ainge in terms of point guard abilities.

If DJ wnet down or was out, Ainge could do at least a pretty good job at it.

House or Ray > nightmare in my book at the point. Marquis is ok at the poitn but he should really play at off guard mostly and use his limited point skills as weapons on the break or as a slasher from the wings.

WE need a little down and dirty guy, a real point who can get in the lane a bit, hit a few shots...make a few drive and dishes.   

[Who]

The other option would be a 10 day contract, but I really don't see anyone out there who could step in right now and give this team minutes.

Any interest in Desmond Mason?

I doubt Wally Szczerbiak or Jerry Stackhouse would consider joining the Celtics for a 10 day contract.

Rashad McCants? Von Wafer?

Edit: Could sign Shaun Livingston as a ball-handling wing for two day contracts. I'd be okay with that, so long as it isn't a permanent contract.

 So Doc probably needs to bite the Bullet and give Giddens or Walker some time right now, just to give some other guys some rest.

I think Doc could play Ray + Paul + Rondo their usual minutes (36 apiece) while playing TA and House about 20 and 15 minutes a night respectively.

If Doc needs another perimeter player to fill in five or so minutes a night ... I'd like to see Giddens get that job. I don't understand why Doc is so reluctant to play a five minute a night player in these circumstances (more last year than this year).

[EJPLAYA]

TP, and good post and I agree. You would think that Ainge, being a guard himself would understand the value of having a legitimate, proven point behind Rondo. He's had three years nwo to do it but hasn't. In those three years, he certainly could have found someone. And they don't have to an all star, jsut a reliable vet guy who can hit a few shots here and there and run the offense. Not a big deal.

It's basically ok if Rondo is healthy...god forbid he goes down, we;ve got nothing legit behind him.

Ainge also did the same play team wide last year.
No legit back ups for Perkins, Pierce, Ray or Rondo. Baby and Powe were solid behind KG but other than that, marginal back ups at every position.

This along with the obvious and unfortunate injuries to KG and powe cost us the ring.

The last comment I'd have is that a true point who could push, make a few drive and dishes and hit a fe shots would make our second unit infinately more deadly.

I don't know who's out there but there has to be someone.

Personally, I would have been force feeding Lester minutes, really push him and put him under fire to see if, with playign time and getting his lumps early, he cold break through.

Or as someone else said, just give TA the job and let him do it nightly, consistently. Though I don't really like TA there, he can at least penetrate better than Eddie and both Pierce and Ray at the top of the key initiating the offense is like a nightmare to me.  

The teams Ainge played on didn't have a "real" point guard. DJ was a scoring guard and so was Ainge. Jerry Sichting was kind of an Eddie House point. EVeryone on those teams could pass and setup shots so they didn't need a "Real" point guard.

When you have Bird, Mchale, and Parrish to go with DJ and Ainge it didn't matter WHO you had out there. In a series they weren't beatable by anyone really except when they were injured. It is the same as when this team was/is healthy. If we have a healthy PP, KG, Ray, Perk, Sheed, Daniels, and Rondo, the rest of this is just nonsense talk. Our talent and ability is so good when healthy we could suit up a few us Celticsbloggers and we'd still win it all. If we weren't injured we'd have 3-4 losses max and wouldn't be having this conversation.

[ScoobyDoo]

100% agree with "Who" on this. I would take my lumps with either Walker or Giddens rather than seeing Ray and Paul being ground down. It just doesn't make sense. I'd choose Giddens as well. I know he's a spaz, but he has NBA level athleticism, is a good rebounder, works really hard on defense.

Again, I know he's a spaz, but sometimes that comes from fear to. He's tryign so hard to impress while also looking like greatly fearing making any mistake.

Sometimes with a bit more regular rotation, confidence can gorw and he might "settle" more and produce a bit more efficiently. I think Giddens has made some strides this year.

He's at least "less hectic" on the floor and makes some occasional decent plays.    

[ssspence]

Keyon dooling.

Thats who i want also

He'll be bought out after the trade deadline. I don't see Danny giving up any of Scal, Tony or Eddie to get him.

[ScoobyDoo]

TP to EJPlaya. 100% correct. We're healthy this doesn't matter.

However, we're not healthy, this year or last so I guess the question then becomes; would having a legit back up point help both the sarting unit and the second unit, regardless of overall team health at any given time, be more productive when playing with either unit?

And, would that extra help translate to a better record, even given the health issues?

To me it's yes, and equivalent to asking, are we better if Perk goes down and Rasheed comes in rather than Mikki Moore?

I translate the answer to that question to our point guard position...

Just even an Anthony Carter type would be great. That's all.

[ssspence]

100% agree with "Who" on this. I would take my lumps with either Walker or Giddens rather than seeing Ray and Paul being ground down. It just doesn't make sense. I'd choose Giddens as well. I know he's a spaz, but he has NBA level athleticism, is a good rebounder, works really hard on defense.

Again, I know he's a spaz, but sometimes that comes from fear to. He's tryign so hard to impress while also looking like greatly fearing making any mistake.

Sometimes with a bit more regular rotation, confidence can gorw and he might "settle" more and produce a bit more efficiently. I think Giddens has made some strides this year.

He's at least "less hectic" on the floor and makes some occasional decent plays.    

On the Walker vs. Giddens debate -- give Walker some minutes before making up your mind. Free the man for Pete's sake. He should be given an opportunity before minutes are handed to JR, who may be the worst player in the history of Celtics basketball. He makes Marty Conlon look like Fred Carter.

[Chris]

100% agree with "Who" on this. I would take my lumps with either Walker or Giddens rather than seeing Ray and Paul being ground down. It just doesn't make sense. I'd choose Giddens as well. I know he's a spaz, but he has NBA level athleticism, is a good rebounder, works really hard on defense.

Again, I know he's a spaz, but sometimes that comes from fear to. He's tryign so hard to impress while also looking like greatly fearing making any mistake.

Sometimes with a bit more regular rotation, confidence can gorw and he might "settle" more and produce a bit more efficiently. I think Giddens has made some strides this year.

He's at least "less hectic" on the floor and makes some occasional decent plays.    

On the Walker vs. Giddens debate -- give Walker some minutes before making up your mind. Free the man for Pete's sake. He should be given an opportunity before minutes are handed to JR, who may be the worst player in the history of Celtics basketball. He makes Marty Conlon look like Fred Carter.

I still think Walker is the guy they have more confidence in going forward, but I think he lost some ground with his injury, and Doc does not feel he is back in game-shape yet.

This is all speculation based on what I have seen of him, but I just think he looks much more like he did in college after his knee surgery, than he did later last year.  He is clearly heavy, and is lacking the explosiveness he used to have. 

Because of this, I don't think Doc feels right giving him the minutes over JR, who has been with the team, practicing, and working hard all season, even if he is a total spaz. 

When it comes down to it, I think neither of these guys are NBA players RIGHT NOW.  Giddens does not seem to have the head for it, and Walker is still very raw.

The fact that when Walker has played for the C's, he has played PF tells me a lot about how much they think he needs to improve his perimeter game, as well as how slow he is at the moment.