Author Topic: Tom Brady is no Spring Chicken  (Read 5773 times)

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Tom Brady is no Spring Chicken
« on: January 11, 2010, 03:23:42 AM »

Offline celticsclay

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First I will say preface this by saying I am a die hard patriot fan and not a hater. I think most people that were following the game thread today could tell how devestated I was. That being said, I can't help but really disagree with a sentiment I am hearing from a lot of Pats fans. Perhaps people are just trying to rationalize the loss to make it which painful, which is fair, but still. How many fans and analysts are going to say that this was just a "transition year" because Brady was coming back from injury. Some people even take it a step further and say we gave up on the year by trading Vrabel and Seymour.

 Does everyone on here realize how old Tom Brady will be at the beginning of next season? 33. I'm not trying to be overly negative but he is definitely past his physical prime and has played wht amounts to an extra season because of all the post season games. Troy Aikman was around 33 when he retired, I think steve young was 36 (and barely played in his final season). Jim Kelly was 36 and also had a lousy last season. Steve McNair (rest in peace) was 35 and was pretty decimated for the last couple seasons.  Sure there are exceptions like Warner and Favre (and to a lesser extent elway who was really more handing off and game managing as an older qb). However, to think your gonna give up what could be oe of Brady's final seasons as an elite qb to rebuild seems ridiculous to me. This team needs to have some urgency and needs to make big moves. We also unfortunately do need to start thinking about a future qb.

Re: Tom Brady is no Spring Chicken
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2010, 03:41:54 AM »

Offline Bahku

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Brady would be a perfect mentor for someone like Tebow or McCoy ... just dreaming. ;) (Good post - TP)
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Re: Tom Brady is no Spring Chicken
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2010, 07:51:36 AM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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The thing that was crazy yesterday was that Brady was making mental, rather than physical, mistakes.  He was visibly missing Welker, and he at times completely lost his composure.

I can't remember ever having seen that from Brady.  Even in his second year, he seemed calm and collected.  Yesterday, that wasn't the case, and QB play is just one of many reasons they lost.

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Re: Tom Brady is no Spring Chicken
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2010, 07:54:38 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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The thing that was crazy yesterday was that Brady was making mental, rather than physical, mistakes.  He was visibly missing Welker, and he at times completely lost his composure.

I can't remember ever having seen that from Brady.  Even in his second year, he seemed calm and collected.  Yesterday, that wasn't the case, and QB play is just one of many reasons they lost.
Pain and injury will cause doubt and hesistation in a player. Right before the Pats second TD pass he had a wide open field to run for the TD, instead he threw the ball away.

No QB is perfect, eventually they all throw up some stinkers in the playoffs.

Re: Tom Brady is no Spring Chicken
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2010, 07:57:57 AM »

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Brady is fine.  he hasnt been hit a lot in his career, wasnt a full time starter in college, etc...

he looked like crap yesterday.  no doubt about it.  but most qb's will when you have defensive players running at you the second you pick your head up. the int he threw, when he was trying to throw the ball away was just stupid.  I Cant remember seeing Brady make a more stupid throw.  who tries to throw a ball away into the middle of a defense...horrible.  but it it is what it is.  he had an off day.

I dont think it is time to start thinking about the qb of the future...Tom will be back, better then he was this year (although, statistically, he was still very very good)

Re: Tom Brady is no Spring Chicken
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2010, 07:59:07 AM »

Offline Fan from VT

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First I will say preface this by saying I am a die hard patriot fan and not a hater. I think most people that were following the game thread today could tell how devestated I was. That being said, I can't help but really disagree with a sentiment I am hearing from a lot of Pats fans. Perhaps people are just trying to rationalize the loss to make it which painful, which is fair, but still. How many fans and analysts are going to say that this was just a "transition year" because Brady was coming back from injury. Some people even take it a step further and say we gave up on the year by trading Vrabel and Seymour.

 Does everyone on here realize how old Tom Brady will be at the beginning of next season? 33. I'm not trying to be overly negative but he is definitely past his physical prime and has played wht amounts to an extra season because of all the post season games. Troy Aikman was around 33 when he retired, I think steve young was 36 (and barely played in his final season). Jim Kelly was 36 and also had a lousy last season. Steve McNair (rest in peace) was 35 and was pretty decimated for the last couple seasons.  Sure there are exceptions like Warner and Favre (and to a lesser extent elway who was really more handing off and game managing as an older qb). However, to think your gonna give up what could be oe of Brady's final seasons as an elite qb to rebuild seems ridiculous to me. This team needs to have some urgency and needs to make big moves. We also unfortunately do need to start thinking about a future qb.



I'd rather sacrifice one season of a player's early "late prime" to really reload than go by the conventional logic that you have to do your best every year, so you make short term moves, then are stuck continuously playing catchup for the next 5 years.

McNair depended on movement, and was always injury prone. Young and Aikmen had major concussion problems. Brady is closer to Warner, Favre, Marino, Manning, etc.



Think about how the Sixers with Iverson and Cleveland with Lebron played their superstar card vs. Lakers with kobe.

Sixers and Cleveland both bought into the "go all out with your guy as long as he's there" thing, and sacrificed patience and future options to try to maximize wins as soon as they could. They ended up with no titles, and very underwhelming supporting casts for their stars.

Then look at the Lakers. They trade Shaq, then "waste" a year of Kobe's prime drafting a 17 year old center, biding their time to make the right move. This upset their star so much that he made trade overtures. However, the 17 year old develops into a prime talent, and they save their assets to pounce on a Gasol trade when it becomes available, and win a title.

By the above logic, LA probably would have taken the rumored "Kwame and Bynum for Kidd" trade that Kobe supposedly wanted and was on the table. I don't know about you, but I think Kobe's happy with the realism and patience.

Think of it this way:
With a young roster and a recovering Brady, we had, what, a 10% chance at the superbowl? So we could have gone for it. Then we would have lost either Wilfork or Seymour anyway, or multiple other assets if we try to keep both. So we have a 10% chance the following year. And so on. Instead, we trade Seymour, which dropped our chances probably to 8% or so, but with our assets so acquired, we probably have a 10% chance next year, then 12%, then 15%, etc. as the assets grow.

I think as a GM, you can't say "what gives us the most wins this year," you have to say "what gives us the best chance of winning a title in the next 5 years?" So that if you have clearly the best team in year 1 of your 5 year window, you go for it, because that's your best chance in the next 5 years. however, if there are major question marks like for the Pats, you maximize your chance a year or two later.

Re: Tom Brady is no Spring Chicken
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2010, 08:26:29 AM »

Offline clover

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Brady was unquestionably beat up at the end of the season here, but next year he should be the healthiest he's been in three years.  And I think the questions over the next three years are with the rest of the team, not him.

Re: Tom Brady is no Spring Chicken
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2010, 09:52:15 AM »

Offline Evantime34

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The thing that was crazy yesterday was that Brady was making mental, rather than physical, mistakes.  He was visibly missing Welker, and he at times completely lost his composure.

I can't remember ever having seen that from Brady.  Even in his second year, he seemed calm and collected.  Yesterday, that wasn't the case, and QB play is just one of many reasons they lost.
Could not have said it better myself. Brady is not exempt from blame.
I think the scheme as well as 2007 has made him regress as qb.

2007 got Brady thinking that he could target a reciever pre snap and throw it with positive results. He got away from going through his progression.

In 2009 it got even worse. Running an offense that is based on running option routes causes a qb to stare at a receiver until he gets open.

Brady needs to look at tapes of himself before 2007. The offensive co ordinator needs to go. We need a new punter and 3 or 4 new defensive starters. Another reciever or two,a tight end, and a running back.
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Re: Tom Brady is no Spring Chicken
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2010, 10:23:42 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Brady was awful yesterday and pretty mediocre to just plain bad in about 4-5 games this year. As a year though, he had a very good year versus some tough competition coming back from an injury while nursing himself through some further injuries all while playing in the least imaginative offensive scheme in 8 years.

The offensive coordinator has to go or get a whole lot better. The offensive line needs to get younger and tougher, especially in run blocking. This offense is screaming for a real ball control back ala Antoine Smith or Corey Dillon. And the Pats need another outside speed threat at wide receiver that can catch the ball.

Can it all be done in one off season? Probably not, but with an uncapped year and lots of draft picks if Belichick doesn't outsmart himself trading away opportunities at great players in the draft, things could turn around quickly for the Pats offense.

I still think Brady has another 3 great seasons in front of him.

Re: Tom Brady is no Spring Chicken
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2010, 11:20:12 AM »

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Brady was awful yesterday and pretty mediocre to just plain bad in about 4-5 games this year. As a year though, he had a very good year versus some tough competition coming back from an injury while nursing himself through some further injuries all while playing in the least imaginative offensive scheme in 8 years.



Brady had one of his best seasons of his career.  I think people are forgetting this (not saying you are) because we all are remembering the record breaking year. 

Brady threw for the second most yards of his career (behind 2007).  second highest completion percentage (behind 2007).  tied for second highest avg per completion (behind 2007).  tied for second most td's (behind 2007).  int % was tied for second lowest (behind 2007).  second highest qb rating (a useless stat) (behind 2007)

If 2007 never happened, Tom Brady had the best year of his career.  yet, people think he is declining...

Re: Tom Brady is no Spring Chicken
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2010, 11:45:53 AM »

Offline MBz

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I don't know the stats, but most of Brady's numbers came against poor opponents, I mean remember 6 of those TD's came in that awful Tennessee game, but against most good teams, he was average.  Though I do think Brady had was some of the problem with the play calling as he was changing the play quite a bit and every time he seemed to change the play, all he wanted to do was go deep, but the other half was not establishing a running game at all.  The RB by committee is not going to work.  You need to pick a #1 and #2 back and let them get most of the carries, let them get into rhythm.  That is the only way they are going to be successful.  They have a lot of work to do in the off-season.  I do think they should change to a 4-3 on defense.  If they don't have an outside linebacker that can consistently put pressure on the quarterback the 3-4 is not going to work.  The Pats need to start drafting better and pony up and spend a little extra money.  Let's face it, that's why they've been trading down in the draft, not because they don't think the players are there.  How good would have Clay Matthews looked on this team?
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Re: Tom Brady is no Spring Chicken
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2010, 02:09:24 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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I was not really trying to base too much of my comments on Brady's play this year alone. Was it his best? Certainly not. He definitely could have had other issues not related to age such as rust from injury and bad playcalling. However, I was really more trying to point out that Brady is reaching the age where a lot of the elite quartberback have slowed down or retired. I know he does not overly rely on athleticism. However, his mobility will only worsen. He will be more prone to getting hit and he will be more likely to get injured. He also probably will start having more poor games sprinkled in with the great ones. Its just surprising nobody ever discusses brady age when we call the big three old nonstop.

Now before people get into the whole athleticism of basketball vs football debate, just look at the average age of decline between basketball players at any position and quarterback. They are not that far apart.

Re: Tom Brady is no Spring Chicken
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2010, 02:20:06 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Well, at least we won't have to worry about Peyton Manning being good that much longer as he is the same age as Brady, so his game will be falling off too.  ;) :D ;D

Re: Tom Brady is no Spring Chicken
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2010, 03:36:20 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Well, at least we won't have to worry about Peyton Manning being good that much longer as he is the same age as Brady, so his game will be falling off too.  ;) :D ;D

I know your joking on that one, but yes I personally do agree with that. I think Peyton could fall off at any point in the next few years dramatically. He did have an amazing season. However, with quarterbacks they really can lose it overnight. Even some of the guys discussed in this thread as lasting like Kurt Warner have had terrible years before bouncing back. Even if we are to take the ultimate iron man Brett Favre, yes he had an amazing statistical season. However, he really has been a pretty average quarterback the last few years. You surround Brady (or peyton) with average receivers a few years down the line and a weaker line and they will look extremely mortal.

Re: Tom Brady is no Spring Chicken
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2010, 10:20:52 PM »

Offline Eja117

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Well, at least we won't have to worry about Peyton Manning being good that much longer as he is the same age as Brady, so his game will be falling off too.  ;) :D ;D
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