A very practical and possible trade Bos/Uta/Was....

[yall hate]

I'd rate the players in the deal as:

(1) Kyle Korver -- solid rotation player
(2) Tony Allen -- mediocre rotation player
(3) Ronnie Price -- borderline rotation player
(4) CJ Miles -- non-rotation reserve
(5) Brian Scalabrine -- non-rotation reserve
(6) Tie -- Dominic McGuire and JR Giddens -- decent prospects
(7) Mike James -- dead weight

I'd rate McGuire as the most talented prospect and most likely to realize to his potential. I'd place CJ Miles second and JR Giddens third. The rest of the players are well established and unlikely to improve much further than their current level.

Miles is a better offensive and defensive player then Tony Allen.

[Who]

CJ Miles has gotten more playing time because Matt Harpring has declined. He was one of Utah's key bench players, arguably their sixth man, three years ago but has declined considerably since then. He wasn't good enough to be in Utah's rotation last year but their wings were weak so he hung on for one last run and he's now physically unable to play in the NBA this year.

Utah's problem is further exacerbated by a lack of replacement options. That's the main reason why Wes Matthews has gotten a lot of playing time despite his uneven play.

Utah's wing rotation has one good player (Ronnie Brewer), one mediocre player (Kirilenko -- All Star caliber power forward but mediocre small forward) and one rotation worthy reserve wing (Korver). They don't have anyone good enough to fill that fourth wing slot. CJ Miles is a very good fifth wing in the rotation and Wes Matthews is a solid fifth wing.

----------------------------------------------------

CJ Miles had done very little with the opportunity. He's producing at a comparable rate per minute (15 points per 36, 4 rebounds per 36, 2-3 assists per 36, similar shot selection) and his efficiency as a shooter has declined. He has also struggled far more defensively now that he's matched up against quality offensive players. And, his team continues to get worse on the court, particularly when he's on the court.

His lack of defensive versatility + lack of physical strength/size makes him an out-and-out shooting guard who struggles to move over to the small forward position effectively.

CJ Miles is a very good fifth wing in the rotation and a serviceable fourth wing (below par but decent). He's a nice player to have on your team. I'm just not that interested in him because of his flaws as a player (only useful when scoring the ball) + inability to play a larger role successfully. He's a fine player in a limited role.

I'd like to have CJ Miles. I'm just not overly interested in him.

[Who]

I'd rate the players in the deal as:

(1) Kyle Korver -- solid rotation player
(2) Tony Allen -- mediocre rotation player
(3) Ronnie Price -- borderline rotation player
(4) CJ Miles -- non-rotation reserve
(5) Brian Scalabrine -- non-rotation reserve
(6) Tie -- Dominic McGuire and JR Giddens -- decent prospects
(7) Mike James -- dead weight

I'd rate McGuire as the most talented prospect and most likely to realize to his potential. I'd place CJ Miles second and JR Giddens third. The rest of the players are well established and unlikely to improve much further than their current level.

Miles is a better offensive and defensive player then Tony Allen.

Edit on that first comment of mine -- Miles should be a borderline rotation player too. Like Ronnie Price.

I disagree that Miles is as good as Tony Allen. He doesn't come close to TA's defensive ability (very good versus poor), is also a worse rebounder (very good versus poor), a worse passer (solid versus poor), and a worse slasher but overall a much superior shooter + scorer. I'd rather have Tony's all-round game than CJ's shooting + scoring ability.

[fanofgreen]

I'd rate the players in the deal as:

(1) Kyle Korver -- solid rotation player
(2) Tony Allen -- mediocre rotation player
(3) Ronnie Price -- borderline rotation player
(4) CJ Miles -- non-rotation reserve
(5) Brian Scalabrine -- non-rotation reserve
(6) Tie -- Dominic McGuire and JR Giddens -- decent prospects
(7) Mike James -- dead weight

I'd rate McGuire as the most talented prospect and most likely to realize to his potential. I'd place CJ Miles second and JR Giddens third. The rest of the players are well established and unlikely to improve much further than their current level.

Miles is a better offensive and defensive player then Tony Allen.

Edit on that first comment of mine -- Miles should be a borderline rotation player too. Like Ronnie Price.

I disagree that Miles is as good as Tony Allen. He doesn't come close to TA's defensive ability (very good versus poor), is also a worse rebounder (very good versus poor), a worse passer (solid versus poor), and a worse slasher but overall a much superior shooter + scorer. I'd rather have Tony's all-round game than CJ's shooting + scoring ability.

Tony Allen is not as good as CJ Miles.

and Tony Allen definetly does not have an All-around game. I think you went a little too far there.

Are you sure your not confusing  CJ Miles with CJ Watson?

[yall hate]

I'd rate the players in the deal as:

(1) Kyle Korver -- solid rotation player
(2) Tony Allen -- mediocre rotation player
(3) Ronnie Price -- borderline rotation player
(4) CJ Miles -- non-rotation reserve
(5) Brian Scalabrine -- non-rotation reserve
(6) Tie -- Dominic McGuire and JR Giddens -- decent prospects
(7) Mike James -- dead weight

I'd rate McGuire as the most talented prospect and most likely to realize to his potential. I'd place CJ Miles second and JR Giddens third. The rest of the players are well established and unlikely to improve much further than their current level.

Miles is a better offensive and defensive player then Tony Allen.

Edit on that first comment of mine -- Miles should be a borderline rotation player too. Like Ronnie Price.

I disagree that Miles is as good as Tony Allen. He doesn't come close to TA's defensive ability (very good versus poor), is also a worse rebounder (very good versus poor), a worse passer (solid versus poor), and a worse slasher but overall a much superior shooter + scorer. I'd rather have Tony's all-round game than CJ's shooting + scoring ability.

cj's been injured this year and just coming back. he's also 22(?). 

Cj is better then Tony (and I am not a tony hater at all).

[Who]

he's also 22(?). 

A lot of it (interest in CJ Miles) depends on how much potential one feels CJ Miles has. I'm pessimistic on his upside due to the lack of improvement over the past few seasons + the lack of non-scoring contributions. That plays a large role in my low level of interest.

and Tony Allen definetly does not have an All-around game. I think you went a little too far there.

All around game -- overall game -- whatever words you'd like to use ...

I prefer Tony's non-scoring positive contributions minus his negative contributions (shooting) over CJ Miles positive contributions (shooting, scoring) minus his negative contributions (defense, rebounding, passing). I think TA has a larger positive influence on the game.

Cj is better then Tony (and I am not a tony hater at all).

Fair enough. I disagree though, I think Tony is better.

[Who]

he's also 22(?). 

A lot of it -- level of interest in CJ Miles -- depends on how much potential one feels CJ Miles has. I'm pessimistic on his upside due to the lack of improvement over the past few seasons + the lack of non-scoring contributions. That plays a large role in my low level of interest.

and Tony Allen definetly does not have an All-around game. I think you went a little too far there.

All around game -- overall game -- whatever words you'd like to use ...

I prefer Tony's non-scoring positive contributions minus his negative contributions (shooting) over CJ Miles positive contributions (shooting, scoring) minus his negative contributions (defense, rebounding, passing). I think TA has a larger positive influence on the game.

Cj is better then Tony (and I am not a tony hater at all).

Fair enough. I disagree though, I think Tony is better.

[fanofgreen]

CJ Miles has gotten more playing time because Matt Harpring has declined. He was one of Utah's key bench players, arguably their sixth man, three years ago but has declined considerably since then. He wasn't good enough to be in Utah's rotation last year but their wings were weak so he hung on for one last run and he's now physically unable to play in the NBA this year.

Utah's problem is further exacerbated by a lack of replacement options. That's the main reason why Wes Matthews has gotten a lot of playing time despite his uneven play.

Utah's wing rotation has one good player (Ronnie Brewer), one mediocre player (Kirilenko -- All Star caliber power forward but mediocre small forward) and one rotation worthy reserve wing (Korver). They don't have anyone good enough to fill that fourth wing slot. CJ Miles is a very good fifth wing in the rotation and Wes Matthews is a solid fifth wing.

----------------------------------------------------

CJ Miles had done very little with the opportunity. He's producing at a comparable rate per minute (15 points per 36, 4 rebounds per 36, 2-3 assists per 36, similar shot selection) and his efficiency as a shooter has declined. He has also struggled far more defensively now that he's matched up against quality offensive players. And, his team continues to get worse on the court, particularly when he's on the court.

His lack of defensive versatility + lack of physical strength/size makes him an out-and-out shooting guard who struggles to move over to the small forward position effectively.

CJ Miles is a very good fifth wing in the rotation and a serviceable fourth wing (below par but decent). He's a nice player to have on your team. I'm just not that interested in him because of his flaws as a player (only useful when scoring the ball) + inability to play a larger role successfully. He's a fine player in a limited role.

I'd like to have CJ Miles. I'm just not overly interested in him.

I'm kinda of confused by the point your trying to make.
The last line you write, that CJ is a fine player in a limited role. But to start out your argument as to why CJ is not good you point out stats of his on a per 36 min. basis.

Why would CJ Miles play 36 min? He's not a 36 min. player, so those stats are irrelevant. I think you underestimate CJ's game, he is way better with his handles and dribbles than TA. He has better handles, and he is way way better at maximizing his dribbles than TA.

And concerning CJ's defense, if players defensive abilities are an issue coming to the Celtics, then tell me why Danny traded and signed for Ray Allen? Eddie House? Sam Cassell?Stephon? etc.

[Who]

But to start out your argument as to why CJ is not good you point out stats of his on a per 36 min. basis.

The per 36 minute stats were used to show that his per minute production has remained fairly constant overly the last three years.

I'm kinda of confused by the point your trying to make.
The last line you write, that CJ is a fine player in a limited role.

As I said earlier -- CJ Miles is a very good fifth wing in the rotation. So you'll have a starting two guard, a starting small forward, first wing off the bench, and a second wing off the bench ahead of him. So a non-rotation player. Miles is also capable of filling that fourth wing role, second wing off the bench, where he's below par but serviceable. A small role.

When I say limited role I mean in either one of those two roles and preferably in that fifth wing role.

[fanofgreen]

But to start out your argument as to why CJ is not good you point out stats of his on a per 36 min. basis.

The per 36 minute stats were used to show that his per minute production has remained fairly constant overly the last three years.

I'm kinda of confused by the point your trying to make.
The last line you write, that CJ is a fine player in a limited role.

As I said earlier -- CJ Miles is a very good fifth wing in the rotation. So you'll have a starting two guard, a starting small forward, first wing off the bench, and a second wing off the bench ahead of him. So a non-rotation player. Miles is also capable of filling that fourth wing role, second wing off the bench, where he's below par but serviceable. A small role.

When I say limited role I mean in either one of those two roles and preferably in that fifth wing role.

Oh ok.
I think for us though he'd be behind, of course Ray,Paul,Eddie,Marquis. But I think his value on the celtics would be giving us size at the wings off the bench. most teams in the league dont come off the bench with a 6'1 SG. He gives us some versatiltiy in that aspect.

I know you would prefer TA but, when I watch Jazz games, I dont see the kind of bonehead mistakes TA makes on a seemingly consistent basis. I know TA has been playing well recently(for TA standards) but, I think you and I both know, that its pretty sad when we make a big deal out of an NBA player playing decent basketball consistently  for 2 consecutive weeks.

I mean in all honesty, when you (you in general terms, not you directly) think about it that's pretty sad. I dont see CJ making half of the mistakes and bonehead plays, and I feel that in itself would put him above TA in comparing the two.

And i dont feel like TA is a good defender, I think his defense gets recognized as good because the rest of his game is just awful really, his D sticks out because it is not awful, but its nowhere near being good.

Also, CJ Miles is a way better ball handler, and as much as Doc puts TA at the point, I would much rather see CJ at point than TA. You have to agree with me on that one, I resepect your disagreements on other aspects but, I would think you might be the real Tony Allen, if you think TA is a better ball-handler than CJ.

[KCattheStripe]

Can we get Wes Matthews in this deal?   

[nickagneta]

Can we get Wes Matthews in this deal?   

I was going to mention him but didn't want people raining down on your binkie's parade tearing his game apart.

[KCattheStripe]

Can we get Wes Matthews in this deal?   

I was going to mention him but didn't want people raining down on your binkie's parade tearing his game apart.

I would love a back court bench of Eddie Quis and Wes... Ahhh to dream.

[moiso]

I prefer a healthy TA to Miles.

[fanofgreen]

Can we get Wes Matthews in this deal?   

I was going to mention him but didn't want people raining down on your binkie's parade tearing his game apart.

I would love a back court bench of Eddie Quis and Wes... Ahhh to dream.

I would love to have Matthews as well, but I dont think Sloan would want to let him go