Celtics/Bulls/Jazz Bill Simmons' trade idea

[Who]

If I'm Chicago, I'd have to seriously consider this.  Getting out from under Henrich's contract and moving Thomas (who I equate on the Bulls to trying to fit a square peg in a round hole) would be a wise move on that organzation's part.  They need to seriously revamp things there and construct a basketball team, not a rag-tag collection of basketball talent.

Very few organizations have shot themselves in the foot like Chicago has in terms of assets.  They squandered cap space on Ben Wallace, and passed on a golden opportunity to acquire Pau Gasol.  They had the chance to be an elite team in the conference, and have completely squandered that.

Miami is probably in a similar position right now, and I don't think they'll end up any better off than the Bulls did.

They also passed on Kobe to keep Deng. Don't remember what the whole package was, but it was a mistake for them to pass on Kobe particularly when they did.

Kobe vetoed the trade after Deng was included. LA rejected all trade proposals that included Deng.

The Bulls never truly had a shot at Kobe Bryant.

[Donoghus]

Yeah, like Who mentioned, I was under the impression that a lot of what had to do with the past Chicago blunders was their tendency to over-rate their talent and reluctance to move anyone.  It's definitely come back to bite them. 

[ManUp]

I'll pass on that regret contract.

[slamtheking]

Not enough coming back to the C's for what they give up.  Daniels and TA are the backup wings and, based on TA's play this year, rotation players.  Hinrich isn't worth both of them as a player (Scal is neglible in that respect) and his contract is a load.

This trade would leave Giddens and Walker as the wing backups.  That's not good enough.

[nickagneta]

I never got how they, Chicago, didn't get Gasol and don't remember the details. But from what I remember, the package they were being asked to give up wasn't that bad and was way, way, way better than what the Grizzlies got out of the Lakers. Was it a situation where Chicago stepped away from the trading table or was it the Griz. If it was the Grizzlies, then some of the "Jerry West steering Gasol to the Lakers" conspiracy theories have a bit more credence.

(1) Chicago grossly over-rated it's young players -- which led to them thinking that inquiring teams were asking for far too much in trades. Perception versus reality.

(2) The rest of the league didn't rate their players highly ... particularly Memphis who weren't overly enamored with Deng or Gordon. Neither player, or both players together, were good enough to vault them up the standings or to build a future winner around (franchise player types).

Memphis was overly pessimistic but still correct whilst the Bulls were ridiculously optimistic (rose tinted glasses) and idiotic.

TP Who. As always you have all the knowledge and info. But was Memphis also asking for Chicago's pick from New York as well? I seem to remember something like that.

[EJPLAYA]

Horrible idea. I wouldn't trade him straight across for Daniels even if their contracts were the same. TA straight across maybe even with the bigger contract, but likely not. As has been said earlier 9 mil a season for Hinrich is ridiculous. Simmons is an idiot!

[Who]

I never got how they, Chicago, didn't get Gasol and don't remember the details. But from what I remember, the package they were being asked to give up wasn't that bad and was way, way, way better than what the Grizzlies got out of the Lakers. Was it a situation where Chicago stepped away from the trading table or was it the Griz. If it was the Grizzlies, then some of the "Jerry West steering Gasol to the Lakers" conspiracy theories have a bit more credence.

(1) Chicago grossly over-rated it's young players -- which led to them thinking that inquiring teams were asking for far too much in trades. Perception versus reality.

(2) The rest of the league didn't rate their players highly ... particularly Memphis who weren't overly enamored with Deng or Gordon. Neither player, or both players together, were good enough to vault them up the standings or to build a future winner around (franchise player types).

Memphis was overly pessimistic but still correct whilst the Bulls were ridiculously optimistic (rose tinted glasses) and idiotic.

TP Who. As always you have all the knowledge and info. But was Memphis also asking for Chicago's pick from New York as well? I seem to remember something like that.

They definitely asked for it but I can't remember if Chicago were ever willing to include it. I don't think they were.

The two main trade packages offer by Chicago that I remember were:

(1) Deng or Gordon + Nocioni + another rotation player + 2 future firsts (not Knicks pick)
(2) Deng + Gordon + a contract + one future first round pick (pick not included initially, only after lengthily negotiations + not Knicks pick)

Also, another one had Hinrich instead of Nocioni but Noce was the main guy due to the Grizzlies past interest in him.

I don't think the Ty Thomas draft pick was ever made available by Chicago but I'm not sure.

[nickagneta]

I never got how they, Chicago, didn't get Gasol and don't remember the details. But from what I remember, the package they were being asked to give up wasn't that bad and was way, way, way better than what the Grizzlies got out of the Lakers. Was it a situation where Chicago stepped away from the trading table or was it the Griz. If it was the Grizzlies, then some of the "Jerry West steering Gasol to the Lakers" conspiracy theories have a bit more credence.

(1) Chicago grossly over-rated it's young players -- which led to them thinking that inquiring teams were asking for far too much in trades. Perception versus reality.

(2) The rest of the league didn't rate their players highly ... particularly Memphis who weren't overly enamored with Deng or Gordon. Neither player, or both players together, were good enough to vault them up the standings or to build a future winner around (franchise player types).

Memphis was overly pessimistic but still correct whilst the Bulls were ridiculously optimistic (rose tinted glasses) and idiotic.

TP Who. As always you have all the knowledge and info. But was Memphis also asking for Chicago's pick from New York as well? I seem to remember something like that.

They definitely asked for it but I can't remember if Chicago were ever willing to include it. I don't think they were.

The two main trade packages offer by Chicago that I remember were:

(1) Deng or Gordon + Nocioni + another rotation player + 2 future firsts (not Knicks pick)
(2) Deng + Gordon + a contract + one future first round pick (pick not included initially, only after lengthily negotiations + not Knicks pick)

Also, another one had Hinrich instead of Nocioni but Noce was the main guy due to the Grizzlies past interest in him.

I don't think the Ty Thomas draft pick was ever made available by Chicago but I'm not sure.

That sounds right and if it is, Chicago was stupid for not doing it but then again Memphis settled and took a lot less so maybe both teams erred in their judgment on that one.

[Chief]

The Bulls also had PJ Brown's huge expiring contract that they just sat on. Many teams offered very good players for Brown and his contract but Paxon never made a move.

Although Ray Allen is a much better player than Brown, I really worry that Danny will do the same as Paxon did with Brown's contract.

[Roy Hobbs]

I never got how they, Chicago, didn't get Gasol and don't remember the details. But from what I remember, the package they were being asked to give up wasn't that bad and was way, way, way better than what the Grizzlies got out of the Lakers. Was it a situation where Chicago stepped away from the trading table or was it the Griz. If it was the Grizzlies, then some of the "Jerry West steering Gasol to the Lakers" conspiracy theories have a bit more credence.

(1) Chicago grossly over-rated it's young players -- which led to them thinking that inquiring teams were asking for far too much in trades. Perception versus reality.

(2) The rest of the league didn't rate their players highly ... particularly Memphis who weren't overly enamored with Deng or Gordon. Neither player, or both players together, were good enough to vault them up the standings or to build a future winner around (franchise player types).

Memphis was overly pessimistic but still correct whilst the Bulls were ridiculously optimistic (rose tinted glasses) and idiotic.

TP Who. As always you have all the knowledge and info. But was Memphis also asking for Chicago's pick from New York as well? I seem to remember something like that.

They definitely asked for it but I can't remember if Chicago were ever willing to include it. I don't think they were.

The two main trade packages offer by Chicago that I remember were:

(1) Deng or Gordon + Nocioni + another rotation player + 2 future firsts (not Knicks pick)
(2) Deng + Gordon + a contract + one future first round pick (pick not included initially, only after lengthily negotiations + not Knicks pick)

Also, another one had Hinrich instead of Nocioni but Noce was the main guy due to the Grizzlies past interest in him.

I don't think the Ty Thomas draft pick was ever made available by Chicago but I'm not sure.

Here's the trade that Chicago reportedly offered prior to the deal with the Lakers:

For Gasol and Memphis’ Hakim Warrick, the Bulls were willing to part with Andres Nocioni, Tyrus Thomas, Joakim Noah, Thabo Sefolosha, possibly Adrian Griffin and draft picks.

Here's what Memphis' owner said:

Heisley didn’t offer up those names, but insisted, “Chicago wouldn’t offer us any of their good, core players,” he said. “Our people told me that we weren’t able to get equal trade value for Gasol and that we needed to do a deal that would give us cap space and draft picks. It was no secret in the league that we were considering offers for him, but the Lakers were the one team that stepped up.”

Link.

[nickagneta]

And so the Jerry West steering Gasol to the Lakers lives on. If the package of Noccioni, Thebalosha, Noah, Thomas and picks weren't better than what the Griz got then I'm a porcupine and last I checked, I have no quills.

[chicagogreen]

hinrich is one of the very best defenders in the league.  I watch bulls games just to see the insanity of him gaurding guys he has no business gaurding,  PP, Lebron, VC, etc.  and he can go all the way down and gaurd 1's.  there would no longer be any doubt about what team was the best defensively if we added this guy without losing a starter.  Him and tony together, or him and rondo together would be monstrous, heck we go big and have him and ray back there.

Remeber last year when we would run the 1-3 pick and roll up high for PP and we would get what we wanted, the switch, the one, hinrich, gaurding him at the free throw line.  we all know this is pp's and the celtic's go to play and we have seen pp torch teams on this play, forcing them to double.  hinrich gaurded it.  he stopped our bread and butter over and over.  i was screaming at the tv for doc to concede this and get away from it.  he is a special defender.

[Donoghus]

hinrich is one of the very best defenders in the league.  I watch bulls games just to see the insanity of him gaurding guys he has no business gaurding,  PP, Lebron, VC, etc.  and he can go all the way down and gaurd 1's.  there would no longer be any doubt about what team was the best defensively if we added this guy without losing a starter.  Him and tony together, or him and rondo together would be monstrous, heck we go big and have him and ray back there.

Remeber last year when we would run the 1-3 pick and roll up high for PP and we would get what we wanted, the switch, the one, hinrich, gaurding him at the free throw line.  we all know this is pp's and the celtic's go to play and we have seen pp torch teams on this play, forcing them to double.  hinrich gaurded it.  he stopped our bread and butter over and over.  i was screaming at the tv for doc to concede this and get away from it.  he is a special defender.

Honestly, the biggest problem with Hinrich is the contract. 

[chicagogreen]

oh, now I remember our (doc's/pp's) answer to this problem.  they said ok, if hinrich is going to take that switch and gaurd pp, we will take him down in the post, that should work, right?  i mean pp is a great offensive player and much bigger than hinrich, no problem.  Hinrich drove him out to the three point line, harassed him into turnovers, barely gave any ground, stayed right under his shot and took away the play over and over again while the rest off the offense stood and watched us try to take advantage of the "mis-match."  he should not be able to gaurd pp, I agree, but he does it.

[chicagogreen]

the contract, I'll give you that, but hey, it ain't my money and its till what 2012?