Walker, William?

[scoop]

I didn't see anything particularly interesting from Walker in college. I thought that he was thoroughly outplayed by Giddens in their time with the Flash last season. He didn't show any promise in the garbage time he got last season. He was horrific in the Summer League. He wasn't much better in Maine. It's still possible he turns things around, but while with Giddens I believe he's a solid jump-shot away from being a NBA player (which is still a lot, obviously), with Walker I think the easiest way for him would be to grow 4 or 5 inches - then he'd be a solid power-forward.

[hwangjini_1]

as i read over this thread i have a few questions concerning posters' viewpoints on both walker and giddens. please help me out and provide some specific and perhaps concrete examples to support your views.

first, for those posters who contend that doc should play walker in place of giddens, why? what have you seen that would demonstrate that doc's opinion is off base on this?

from the little i have seen of both, neither looks to be worthy of consistent minutes, let alone nba starting material on a good team. what have you seen that doc has not not, and how did you reach this conclusion?

next, would you please demonstrate why walker and giddens are more than nba fodder or career bench warmers for the celtics? honestly, if these guys were on the bench for toronto, or phoenix, or cleveland would CB be clamoring to bring them onto the celtics in a trade?

(i doubt most cbers would even offer ever popular favorite package tony and scal for giddens or walker)

final point and not a question. for all the lamenting about scal, he does do certain things well...even if they are a limited number of things. scal has proven that if you put him in the game to shoot 3 pts, set picks, and play smart (albeit slow) defense...he does it fairly regularly.

scal usually plays within his abilities and doc can count on that.

with walker and giddens i dont see them filling particular roles and doing it well...at least not yet. nor do i see them having stellar BB IQ.

doc knows what scal will do, and rarely does scal make stupid mistakes. perhaps doc is worried about walker and giddens making bone headed mistakes that hurt the team.

neither is good enough to control the flow of a game, as the big 3 might do. so doc probably wants specific jobs/roles from each. and these roles are probably specific to particular times in a game or specific matchups.

i think giddens was in as desperation starter because doc could count on his defense. his role was to defend and he has shown doc he can do it.

if doc was pleased with that defense, then we can probably expect to see more of giddens before we see more of walker.

[snively]

Giddens was pretty bad, but he was a good soldier.  He hustled on defense, ran to his spots, and tried to feed his teammates whenever he had the ball.  I think he's shown Doc that he's embracing the role player role model.  Combine that with his defensive versatility (he guarded the 1-3 spots with moderate effectiveness last night) and you see why he has the edge on Bill Walker.  But I think Bill only has a little ways to go to leapfrog him.  It's not as if JR was lights out defensively, so Billy just has to match his effort.

Nor did JR demonstrate much offensive competence.  A willing passer yes, but he wasted about 5 open looks by dribbling in between his legs before making a decision. 

That's one area where Walker definitely has shown more aptitude in his short pro career.  If the shot's open he'll take it confidently and if not he'll swing the ball. 

I still think Walker's got the better chance of hanging with the team long-term.

When?  Has he ever played and extended minutes in a real NBA game?

Walker's played 222 career NBA minutes.  Giddens has 89.  From those minutes, I think it's clear that Walker is the more willing shooter and more efficient offensive player.  Giddens is definitely better defensively, which is why he's seeing time now, but my point is that Walker shouldn't be that far behind, as Giddens defense isn't all that great.  A little more effort defensively and Walker will be the much better player.

[bdm860]

I'm surprised at some of the the replies in this thread.  StartOrien threw out a legit question, and it seems like a lot of posters just give canned replies, like there is only one possible answer, and they are authorities on it.

Because Giddens got the start (and the playing time) and Walker didn't, the only possible answer is that Giddens is and has been showing more in practice.

What NBA do you guys watch where this is the only possible answer?

Other legit answers are:
Walker has some kind of minor, unreported injury (rolled an ankle in practice, sore hamstring, pulled/strained muscle).  It's not big news when something happens to a guy who's not expected to play anyways, sometimes it's mentioned as a little blurb at the bottom of an article but doesn't get any real attention, but only the hardcore fans seem to know about it.  Not enough to keep him from dressing, but enough to make him not 100%.

Walker is sick (this is the cold and flue season after all).  Same basic reasons as above.

Walker and Giddens are playing equally well in practice but Doc only has room in his rotation for one of them at the time (someone did mention this).

Doc just wants to give Giddens a look.  It can really be as simple as this.  Why does it have to be a slight on Walker that Giddens got the start?

Doc thought Giddens was a better match up.  Again can be as simple as this.

Or how about the very simple answer that Walker has only gotten a few practices in with the C's since being recalled.  Really how many practices have they even had since he got recalled on 12/23?  They just got back from a roadtrip, has there even been 2 practices?  Maybe 3 tops.  Walker might be showing a lot in practice, Giddens just has a few more under his belt at this point.

Walker and Giddens can both  be giving 110% in practice.  No one really knows, but it seems like a lot of posters think they do.

I'm just saying there's more possible answers than Walker hasn't been showing it in practice, and I thought this blog was a great place to find those little jewels of info that only the hardcore fans seem to know about.

Being sent to the D-league does not necessarily mean you're  not showing it in practice.

Not playing does not necessarily mean you're not showing it in practice.

[wdleehi]

I'm surprised at some of the the replies in this thread.  StartOrien threw out a legit question, and it seems like a lot of posters just give canned replies, like there is only one possible answer, and they are authorities on it.

Because Giddens got the start (and the playing time) and Walker didn't, the only possible answer is that Giddens is and has been showing more in practice.

What NBA do you guys watch where this is the only possible answer?

Other legit answers are:
Walker has some kind of minor, unreported injury (rolled an ankle in practice, sore hamstring, pulled/strained muscle).  It's not big news when something happens to a guy who's not expected to play anyways, sometimes it's mentioned as a little blurb at the bottom of an article but doesn't get any real attention, but only the hardcore fans seem to know about it.  Not enough to keep him from dressing, but enough to make him not 100%.

Walker is sick (this is the cold and flue season after all).  Same basic reasons as above.

Walker and Giddens are playing equally well in practice but Doc only has room in his rotation for one of them at the time (someone did mention this).

Doc just wants to give Giddens a look.  It can really be as simple as this.  Why does it have to be a slight on Walker that Giddens got the start?

Doc thought Giddens was a better match up.  Again can be as simple as this.

Or how about the very simple answer that Walker has only gotten a few practices in with the C's since being recalled.  Really how many practices have they even had since he got recalled on 12/23?  They just got back from a roadtrip, has there even been 2 practices?  Maybe 3 tops.  Walker might be showing a lot in practice, Giddens just has a few more under his belt at this point.

Walker and Giddens can both  be giving 110% in practice.  No one really knows, but it seems like a lot of posters think they do.

I'm just saying there's more possible answers than Walker hasn't been showing it in practice, and I thought this blog was a great place to find those little jewels of info that only the hardcore fans seem to know about.

Being sent to the D-league does not necessarily mean you're  not showing it in practice.

Not playing does not necessarily mean you're not showing it in practice.

Because the Celtics needed a win.  Even with all those players out, they need to avoid long losing streaks. 

[Induna]

It is much more simple and straightforward than people suggest. walker did not play because he is coming back from an injury and was sent to the dleague to rehabilitate and get minutes, He only came back because of the Pierce injury and is probably way off integrating into the rotation unlike Giddens who has been fit and with the team.

Both Giddens and walker should not be written off and should be developed they have got some good basic abilities and I actually like Walker to succeed more than Giddens. That does not mean he was ready for the Toronto game.

[wdleehi]

It is much more simple and straightforward than people suggest. walker did not play because he is coming back from an injury and was sent to the dleague to rehabilitate and get minutes, He only came back because of the Pierce injury and is probably way off integrating into the rotation unlike Giddens who has been fit and with the team.

Both Giddens and walker should not be written off and should be developed they have got some good basic abilities and I actually like Walker to succeed more than Giddens. That does not mean he was ready for the Toronto game.

Maybe they can, maybe they can't.

To me, it doesn't matter.  This is win now mode.  If you can't help the team win this season, then you should be replaced with someone who can.

[StartOrien]

It is much more simple and straightforward than people suggest. walker did not play because he is coming back from an injury and was sent to the dleague to rehabilitate and get minutes, He only came back because of the Pierce injury and is probably way off integrating into the rotation unlike Giddens who has been fit and with the team.

Both Giddens and walker should not be written off and should be developed they have got some good basic abilities and I actually like Walker to succeed more than Giddens. That does not mean he was ready for the Toronto game.

Maybe they can, maybe they can't.

To me, it doesn't matter.  This is win now mode.  If you can't help the team win this season, then you should be replaced with someone who can.

I don't disagree with your 'win now' idea, but I don't think that playing Bill Walker would detract from this. The original thought behind the post is that I would've thought that a game like the Raptors game would be the type of game that you'd throw Bill Walker into to see if he has the ability to help you in any fashion. And again, this came on a night where I thought there was a specific spot for him to play in the second quarter. Not just because he's a "Potential Guy."

I think Giddens showed last night that there's really not a spot for him. His defense is good enough, but he seems SO gun shy and robotic that I don't think he can really contribute. Which adds to me being surprised not to see Walker at all last night. 

Again, it takes us back to the link that was posted a week ago "If not now, then when?"At the end of the day it's not important enough to call silly or foolish, but I would say it's odd to not give him ANY time.

[nickagneta]

What I don't understand is what is so hard to accept that Walker isn't better than Giddens at this point. I mean all we have to go off is the evidence:

- Giddens has been with the team all year, Walker hasn't
- Giddens hasn't been demoted to the minor league, Walker has
- Giddens was given the start, Walker wasn't
- Giddens played, Walker didn't
- Ainge and Doc when interviewed earlier in the year said that Giddens had surged ahead of Walker on the depth chart and that Walker hadn't progressed

If Doc and Ainge said that, Walker was hurt, Walker was in the minor league, and Giddens got to play and start, what other conclusions are we supposed to come to exactly? Could all the excuses that bdm860 made for Walker be true? Probably not. Could one of them be true? Possibly. But given the evidence isn't it a lot more logical to assume that Walker isn't showing enough to the front office and head coach to warrant misplacing Giddens out of the game rotation yesterday? I think it is and apparently a lot of other here do too.

[BballTim]

It is much more simple and straightforward than people suggest. walker did not play because he is coming back from an injury and was sent to the dleague to rehabilitate and get minutes, He only came back because of the Pierce injury and is probably way off integrating into the rotation unlike Giddens who has been fit and with the team.

Both Giddens and walker should not be written off and should be developed they have got some good basic abilities and I actually like Walker to succeed more than Giddens. That does not mean he was ready for the Toronto game.

Maybe they can, maybe they can't.

To me, it doesn't matter.  This is win now mode.  If you can't help the team win this season, then you should be replaced with someone who can.

  I disagree with this philosophy. With a 15 man roster there's room for 3-4 projects that you hope could develop into rotation players later in the year or in future years. Using the 15th roster spot on some washed up player based on the slight chance he can help the team in the playoffs seems kind of short sighted.

[wdleehi]

It is much more simple and straightforward than people suggest. walker did not play because he is coming back from an injury and was sent to the dleague to rehabilitate and get minutes, He only came back because of the Pierce injury and is probably way off integrating into the rotation unlike Giddens who has been fit and with the team.

Both Giddens and walker should not be written off and should be developed they have got some good basic abilities and I actually like Walker to succeed more than Giddens. That does not mean he was ready for the Toronto game.

Maybe they can, maybe they can't.

To me, it doesn't matter.  This is win now mode.  If you can't help the team win this season, then you should be replaced with someone who can.

  I disagree with this philosophy. With a 15 man roster there's room for 3-4 projects that you hope could develop into rotation players later in the year or in future years. Using the 15th roster spot on some washed up player based on the slight chance he can help the team in the playoffs seems kind of short sighted.

If there where high potential players, yes.

But when the three players are low in the rotation potential players, what's the point? 

[Bankshot]

It is much more simple and straightforward than people suggest. walker did not play because he is coming back from an injury and was sent to the dleague to rehabilitate and get minutes, He only came back because of the Pierce injury and is probably way off integrating into the rotation unlike Giddens who has been fit and with the team.

Both Giddens and walker should not be written off and should be developed they have got some good basic abilities and I actually like Walker to succeed more than Giddens. That does not mean he was ready for the Toronto game.

Walker is not injured, because he wouldn't have been playing in the Dleague had he been hurt.  He's just not that good.

[moiso]

I agree that Giddens started because he's better defensively, and that Walker has a little bit better offensive flow.  But the fact is that neither one is anywhere close to the level of the guy everyone loves to hate, Mr. Tony Allen.  Tony's game is far more rounded than either of these guys.

[BballTim]

It is much more simple and straightforward than people suggest. walker did not play because he is coming back from an injury and was sent to the dleague to rehabilitate and get minutes, He only came back because of the Pierce injury and is probably way off integrating into the rotation unlike Giddens who has been fit and with the team.

Both Giddens and walker should not be written off and should be developed they have got some good basic abilities and I actually like Walker to succeed more than Giddens. That does not mean he was ready for the Toronto game.

Maybe they can, maybe they can't.

To me, it doesn't matter.  This is win now mode.  If you can't help the team win this season, then you should be replaced with someone who can.

  I disagree with this philosophy. With a 15 man roster there's room for 3-4 projects that you hope could develop into rotation players later in the year or in future years. Using the 15th roster spot on some washed up player based on the slight chance he can help the team in the playoffs seems kind of short sighted.

If there where high potential players, yes.

But when the three players are low in the rotation potential players, what's the point? 

  Even if you're just developing Walker or Giddens to replace TA as the 4th wing it's still worthwhile. I just think that evaluating everyone solely on how they can contribute this year because we're in "win now mode" is shortsighted and a little panicky.

[slamtheking]

It is much more simple and straightforward than people suggest. walker did not play because he is coming back from an injury and was sent to the dleague to rehabilitate and get minutes, He only came back because of the Pierce injury and is probably way off integrating into the rotation unlike Giddens who has been fit and with the team.

Both Giddens and walker should not be written off and should be developed they have got some good basic abilities and I actually like Walker to succeed more than Giddens. That does not mean he was ready for the Toronto game.

Maybe they can, maybe they can't.

To me, it doesn't matter.  This is win now mode.  If you can't help the team win this season, then you should be replaced with someone who can.

  I disagree with this philosophy. With a 15 man roster there's room for 3-4 projects that you hope could develop into rotation players later in the year or in future years. Using the 15th roster spot on some washed up player based on the slight chance he can help the team in the playoffs seems kind of short sighted.

If there where high potential players, yes.

But when the three players are low in the rotation potential players, what's the point? 

High potential players?  since when would high-potential players be that low on a roster?  

There's nothing wrong with having developing players in the 13-15 slots on a roster, even if they aren't projected to be all-stars.  If the C's could get these 3 kids to develop into solid bench players to replace the expiring deals this year, all the better.  Granted Giddens is one of those expiring deals at this point but if Hudson, Walker and Giddens were able to develop their games to replace House, Scal and TA for next year, all the better for the C's.  Less $ against the luxury tax and players that have been exposed to and learning Doc's system so there's less of a learning curve than there would be if FA's were brought in.