Is Shelden in Doc's Doghouse?

[DannyZ]

On the Shelden vs. BBD debate....  Doc claimed Shelden was playing well and BBD would have to earn his way back.  But before BBD even returned, Shelden started getting DNPs.  So I don't think BBD's return put Shelden in the dog house.  Something else happened.

[Chris]

On the Shelden vs. BBD debate....  Doc claimed Shelden was playing well and BBD would have to earn his way back.  But before BBD even returned, Shelden started getting DNPs.  So I don't think BBD's return put Shelden in the dog house.  Something else happened.

I think the shock of Shelden not being a complete stiff wore off, and Doc started seeing the flaws in his game. 

So I guess it depends on your definition of "doghouse".  I don't think Shelden did anything to really offend Doc off the court...Doc just realized that he is not that good of a basketball player.

BTW, I also think comments like that by Doc have more to do with lighting a fire under Baby than really praising Shelden.  I think Doc wanted to make sure Baby was working his butt off (literally), to make sure he came back strong.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

First off, TP's to Danny Z and Potapenko Boxout, i like the way you think...now how many time do i have to talk here without getting small minded pick points, while you lose the main point, just while you try to be "right" and then miss the big picture. 3 mill or 5 mill, big deal, read the post, get the point, if you play ball FOR A LIVING, get 3 MILL, you have no excuse to not getting better, basketball isn't that hard, scal could get better if he worked at it or listened to SO
MEone, maybe he is like Acie Earl, staying at home to learn from his dad instead of going to C's mini camp...! Second, Leon onlt got prime time, after January of his second year, I was here complaining and posting, hoping he would get more time, while many who lacked vision and experience said the same thing aboout Leon as they do now about Sheldon. There is no reason to ever put scal out there, especially when you have sheldon sitting there, ready and healthy. I don't need to hear about what happened on other teams, one minute you are saying "coaches know better" the next you are saying look at the player, like in the Nate R case.....

[Meadowlark_Scal]

Besides, we all know BBD has a hard time dunking.....come on, for a forward, that is lame....to many Lbs..! Has Scal EVER dunked...(no, not a doughnuttttt...!)

[nickagneta]

First off, TP's to Danny Z and Potapenko Boxout, i like the way you think...now how many time do i have to talk here without getting small minded pick points, while you lose the main point, just while you try to be "right" and then miss the big picture. 3 mill or 5 mill, big deal, read the post, get the point, if you play ball FOR A LIVING, get 3 MILL, you have no excuse to not getting better, basketball isn't that hard, scal could get better if he worked at it or listened to SO
MEone, maybe he is like Acie Earl, staying at home to learn from his dad instead of going to C's mini camp...! Second, Leon onlt got prime time, after January of his second year, I was here complaining and posting, hoping he would get more time, while many who lacked vision and experience said the same thing aboout Leon as they do now about Sheldon. There is no reason to ever put scal out there, especially when you have sheldon sitting there, ready and healthy. I don't need to hear about what happened on other teams, one minute you are saying "coaches know better" the next you are saying look at the player, like in the Nate R case.....

You want to make a point then make one. All you have done is cloud what you are trying to say with exaggerations and falsehoods.

Players play until they reach a plateau and then regress. It is impossible to keep getting better and better every year otherwise players would play until they died. Scal reached his peak performance ability probably 3-5 years ago. He isn't going to get any better at his age and given his experience. They notion is absurd.

Also, Leon got playing time from the get go. His first year he just so happened to get playing time for one of the worst teams in Celtic history. There was no "prime time" that year. Stopping moving the goalposts with your argument here.

Your point is Sheldon is better than Scal and Scal should never get playing time over Sheldon. Well, if that's you point don't fog ot up with falsehoods and exaggerations.

Sheldon has bad hands. Is a reluctant outside shooter. Is a good rebounder but has a very limited offensive post repertoire because of bad hops. he just has zero explosiveness in his legs and due to his bad set of hands doesn't have the best handle or ability to catch and layup underneath. His defense is atrocious versus athletic PFs and only okay versus less then mobile big men that are bigger than him.

Scal is an awful rebounder. He has no offensive game except a pretty decent outside shot but has no confidence in his ability to make it regularly. As a post defender he tries hard but is seriously ineffective. As a perimeter defender of less athletic SFs and athletic PFs, he is actually very very good. he is an intelligent player and while seldom make bad turnovers or be out of position on either end of the floor.

Those are the guys you are dealing with. Stick with the facts. Right now, given what I said about each, with I think most will agree is a fairly accurate description of their games, Doc chooses to play Sheldon during one set of matchups and Scal versus the other. I think that's smart.

[nickagneta]

Besides, we all know BBD has a hard time dunking.....come on, for a forward, that is lame....to many Lbs..! Has Scal EVER dunked...(no, not a doughnuttttt...!)

What does dunking have to do with being a good player? the ability to dunk is extremely over rated skill when it comes to determining the ability of a basketball player.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

you know, after watching your posts, I think i haven't ever seen anyone here always go after everyone so visciously, that is all you do.....do you hasve a chip on your shoulder or what..? Lighten up Frances..! Can't you just talk in general and make your point without all this..? Everyone else seems to be able to disagree more indirectly....I don't understand why you always do this.....

Besides, we all know BBD has a hard time dunking.....come on, for a forward, that is lame....to many Lbs..! Has Scal EVER dunked...(no, not a doughnuttttt...!)

What does dunking have to do with being a good player? the ability to dunk is extremely over rated skill when it comes to determining the ability of a basketball player.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

ot just that post, most of the ones i get from you...how about an easier conversation..?

[Chris]

Also, Leon got playing time from the get go. His first year he just so happened to get playing time for one of the worst teams in Celtic history. There was no "prime time" that year. Stopping moving the goalposts with your argument here.

Well, Leon didn't get a lot of playing time that year...but when he was on the court, he looked completely lost.  Yeah, he could grab rebounds, and was a decent finisher (although he did struggle a bit getting his shots off against the bigger players), but he had no clue where to be on defense (he made Al Jefferson look like KG), and looked just as lost within the offense.  

Leon never got steady minutes until he learned the system well enough to not completely kill the team.  Shelden isn't that far behind, but he is still not good in the team defensive scheme...but he also does not have anywhere near the talent Powe had.  

[GreenFaith1819]

Well, for me, I just think Doc plays the players as per the matchups..here's an IMO brilliant move by Doc just a couple of weeks ago:

Playing Scal on Matt Bonner in the Spurs game. I couldn't figure it out right away..seemed absurd..but yet after the game I realized that it was the right move. Scal could keep up with Matt and kept him from torching us with his threes that game. Matt ended up going like 2 for 9 that game.

To me, it's all about the matchups. I don't think Shelden is in anyone's doghouse..I just think that as with the Powe/Glen Davis situation, Doc plays each player as per what the matchup is.

Like tonight against PHX...Shelden may have a problem with Stoudemire, because he likes to shoot mid range as well as in the post. No offense to Shelden, but Doc uses each players' skills according to the matchups.

[nickagneta]

Also, Leon got playing time from the get go. His first year he just so happened to get playing time for one of the worst teams in Celtic history. There was no "prime time" that year. Stopping moving the goalposts with your argument here.

Well, Leon didn't get a lot of playing time that year...but when he was on the court, he looked completely lost.  Yeah, he could grab rebounds, and was a decent finisher (although he did struggle a bit getting his shots off against the bigger players), but he had no clue where to be on defense (he made Al Jefferson look like KG), and looked just as lost within the offense.  

Leon never got steady minutes until he learned the system well enough to not completely kill the team.  Shelden isn't that far behind, but he is still not good in the team defensive scheme...but he also does not have anywhere near the talent Powe had.  

His original comment was he got no playing time until his second or third year. He then said he didn't get "prime time" playing time until January of 2008. Leon got plenty of PT but like you say, never consistent minutes until he proved he knew what he was doing consistently.

Sheldon isn't Leon and I think the comparisons in their playing time and blaming Doc for their lack of playing time is disingenuous. Doc plays the guys when they are playing well and doing what they are supposed to and doesn't when the matchups aren't good or when they don't play well or are doing things wrong.

Sheldon is not as good a player as Leon. He's not as good a player as Davis. He's a better player than Scal. But Sheldon has been doing poorly on the defensive end recently and the C's have played a bunch of perimeter teams.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

Stoudamire is a problem for everyone, anyone that can cover him has to focus on him all the time and not bother with helping out anyone else...i am anxious to see who does it, but i do hope sheldon gets a shot.....ook i promote sheldon a lot, all i ask is play him a good amount in diff situations, and let his game do the talking, if he fails I'll suck it up...Hey, I was wrong about Vin Baker, my brother still rags me about that one...LOL

[Meadowlark_Scal]

Well, I disagree with docs rotation there, and only because of the scal issue, it is part of his decisioon making skills and scal just doesn't do it, I watch him all the time when he is out there, I think you guys lower the bar for him because you feel for him.....Also, the only way Leon did get the hang of all the D and O plays, was to play.....in real time. Practice is fine, but it is NOTHING like game time, you know that.

[GreenFaith1819]

On the Shelden vs. BBD debate....  Doc claimed Shelden was playing well and BBD would have to earn his way back.  But before BBD even returned, Shelden started getting DNPs.  So I don't think BBD's return put Shelden in the dog house.  Something else happened.

Maybe because we were playing against perimeter-oriented Bigs? Doc won't play Shelden much in those cases. I don't even think Perk will be chasing Channing Frye out to the three-point line tonight. I expect to see a LOT of Scal..on Frye and Stoudemire.

And if they don't D Scal up, he can torch them from long distance. Scal hasn't shot well all year, but you never know when he could break out. If we can get 6-8 points from Scal tonight, we can pull this out.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

Well okay...I guess I should comprimise here, because i ask others to do the same...maybe scal will do good tonight or soon...but watch him for the next posts tonight...I am watching this game from the bar, so no posts from me tonight....Hey, if scal started playing like i feel forwards should, I'd be happy..!