Would it really surprise you if " King James " is using PED'S?

[RAcker]

nothing would surprise me with any pro athlete using PED's at this point.

Pedro Martinez? Adam Vinateri? Michael Sweetness?

At first glance, I thought that last name was Michael Sweetney.  I was thinking, "He may be 3/4 butterfat, but not on roids."

[jamesk855]

I doubt he would do them. There's far too much at risk for him to get caught, plus he was a huge football guy in high school so it isn't like he doesn't know how to work out. Most basketball players don't get big because they want to stay quick and nimble, and putting on muscle ruins the muscle memory for shooting. Lebron isn't much of a shooter, more of a slasher, drawing a lot of contact so it'd make sense that he'd put the weight on. Many of the players in the NBA, not all, could put on that kinda weight if they wanted. Look at Kobe when he put on 15 pounds of muscle over the summer. Lebron may have the athleticism right now, but all that weight will cut his career in half.

[dark_lord]

in this day and age, it wouldnt surprise me if any1 used them.  in all honesty, if the leagues these athletes play for, along with the law, dont care.....why should i

[nickagneta]

also, I dont know a whole lot about golf, so forgive me, but how the hell would PEDs help you in that sport anyway, other than obviously helping out your drive a little.  I mean, golf is a sport more based on mental judgement than physical ability right?  Being able to smack the crap out of the ball with a driver doesnt help you so much when you need to decide what club to use in a situation where you can only use 60% of your full swing

I tend to think the Tiger connection to PEDs is purely speculative at this point, but I do think HGH would help a lot in golf.  One of the reasons Tiger is so great is because he outdrives the competition consistently.  Obviously, his accuracy, his instincts, his clutchness, etc., all make him the guy he is, but if HGH gives a golfer the ability to get 20 extra yards on his swing, that's a big advantage.

Just for some perspective, Tiger hasn't been a top 5 golfer in driving distance since 2005 or even a top 20 distance driver since 2007. Yet since the beginning of 2006 he has won 29 tournaments and 4 majors. Driving distance does not a good golfer make or really give a player an advantage. Bubba Watson, and John Daly have been the longest drivers on tour for quite a while and they have trouble cracking the top 60 on the money list most of the time.

PED's helping in golf is a false pretense, IMHO.

[Redz]

also, I dont know a whole lot about golf, so forgive me, but how the hell would PEDs help you in that sport anyway, other than obviously helping out your drive a little.  I mean, golf is a sport more based on mental judgement than physical ability right?  Being able to smack the crap out of the ball with a driver doesnt help you so much when you need to decide what club to use in a situation where you can only use 60% of your full swing

I tend to think the Tiger connection to PEDs is purely speculative at this point, but I do think HGH would help a lot in golf.  One of the reasons Tiger is so great is because he outdrives the competition consistently.  Obviously, his accuracy, his instincts, his clutchness, etc., all make him the guy he is, but if HGH gives a golfer the ability to get 20 extra yards on his swing, that's a big advantage.

Just for some perspective, Tiger hasn't been a top 5 golfer in driving distance since 2005 or even a top 20 distance driver since 2007. Yet since the beginning of 2006 he has won 29 tournaments and 4 majors. Driving distance does not a good golfer make or really give a player an advantage. Bubba Watson, and John Daly have been the longest drivers on tour for quite a while and they have trouble cracking the top 60 on the money list most of the time.

PED's helping in golf is a false pretense, IMHO.

It may not make the golfer, but in conjunction with the other set of skills (that the others are lacking) it could certainly help.  That of course assumes there is no negative effect of the PED's to the other portion of the game that don't require strength or stamina.

[nickagneta]

also, I dont know a whole lot about golf, so forgive me, but how the hell would PEDs help you in that sport anyway, other than obviously helping out your drive a little.  I mean, golf is a sport more based on mental judgement than physical ability right?  Being able to smack the crap out of the ball with a driver doesnt help you so much when you need to decide what club to use in a situation where you can only use 60% of your full swing

I tend to think the Tiger connection to PEDs is purely speculative at this point, but I do think HGH would help a lot in golf.  One of the reasons Tiger is so great is because he outdrives the competition consistently.  Obviously, his accuracy, his instincts, his clutchness, etc., all make him the guy he is, but if HGH gives a golfer the ability to get 20 extra yards on his swing, that's a big advantage.

Just for some perspective, Tiger hasn't been a top 5 golfer in driving distance since 2005 or even a top 20 distance driver since 2007. Yet since the beginning of 2006 he has won 29 tournaments and 4 majors. Driving distance does not a good golfer make or really give a player an advantage. Bubba Watson, and John Daly have been the longest drivers on tour for quite a while and they have trouble cracking the top 60 on the money list most of the time.

PED's helping in golf is a false pretense, IMHO.

It may not make the golfer, but in conjunction with the other set of skills (that the others are lacking) it could certainly help.  That of course assumes there is no negative effect of the PED's to the other portion of the game that don't require strength or stamina.

I wouldn't put it past Tiger to have used PED's to recover faster from his two injuries he has had but doubt he would use them for a everyday competitive edge. It makes no sense for a guy who already could hit a ball 320 yds regularly as a teenager.

[TitleMaster]

I think it took Karl Malone roughly five or so years, using a consistent lifting program, to become what he was. And his meticulous program was well observed by others. In Perks case, his rookie year was nearly zero playing minutes so all he did was lift weights to pass the time. And thus, Perks growth curve was shortened to a mere three years.

On the other hand, LeBron simply ballooned, from the get-go, and every year, he's been looking more and more the steroid monster with the forehead, protruding neck, etc. I suspect that the league's somewhat aware but are turning a blind eye.

[Neurotic Guy]

One problem with a PED discussion is that adults have a tendency to apply adult morality and adult cognition onto what is often an adolescent decision. This leads us to make judgements about younger people's behavior that may be a little unfair (BTW -- to be clear,  I did not hear anyone in the previous discussion making moral judgments, I'm speaking to PED discussions in general).  

I am not surprised when any young person decides to use PEDs because the reality is that the benefits are potentially huge, and the risks/detriments are not immediately experienced.  One trait of adolescence that young men in their 20's often carry with them for a while is a feeling of indestructability and imortality, something  that aging and reality gradually help to mitigate over time.  But, imagine being a 16-17 year old who is enticed by muscles, girls, attention, sports glory, money, college, etc. -- and then encouraged by role models (older kids or professional athletes), and encouraged by sychophants and manipulators who stand to gain their own money or pseudo-celebrity status by associating themselves with the athlete. Then, of course, influenced by the savvy drug pushers who have become experts in how to disguise or cover the use of PEDs and who are often smooth salepeople assuring young 'clients' that they are safe and that they'll be big, strong, etc...  Yes -- personal responsibilty is the ultimate accountability measure, but young athletes are easy prey since all the benefits of PEDs are precisely the things that so many young people want.

Lebron is 24 years old and I wouldn't be surprised or even disappointed in him (as if that matters) if I heard he had used PEDs.  He's old enough to make his own decisions and to be held accountable, however, I wouldn't judge him harshly.  Just my opinion.  

[rondohondo]

This article from SI in January of 2009 makes me wonder even more about Lebron and PED'S.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/chris_ballard/01/27/lebron.james/

And just how big is James, exactly? Well, that is a matter of intense speculation around the NBA. He came into the league in 2003 weighing 240 pounds and is listed at 250 in this year's media guide, but that number is clearly low. There are whispers that he goes 265; one report recently had him at 274. "He's at least 260, right?" guessed Jackson, who added that D-ing up James is like "guarding a brick wall."

In an attempt to settle the matter last week I brought a scale to my interview with James at a ballroom in San Francisco's St. Regis Hotel. He laughed, but didn't get on. "I can't let everybody know everything about LeBron," said James, who more than any other star understands the value of mystique. He did joke that he'd "gotten fat" -- this from a man with 5% body fat whose raised veins run like tiny interstates up his arms and calves -- then hemmed and hawed before confiding that he had gained eight pounds this summer "even though I was trying to lose 10." That said, a Cavs source puts James's weight "between 265 and 270

Why would James not allow the public know what he really weighs ? What is he trying to hide? And how do you put on 8 LBS when you are trying to lose 10 LBS?

And then this......

This is sure to exasperate scrawny teenagers toiling in weight rooms the world over, but despite his bodybuilder's physique, James has never really lifted. At least not the way a normal human would to develop such musculature. (Think heavy weight, low reps, lots of grunting and Metallica.)

Rather, James began working out seriously only last June. "He just messed around in the weight room and got by on raw strength his first few years," says Cavs trainer Mike Mancias, who oversees all of James's conditioning work. Even now, James eschews what he calls "iron-man championship lifting," such as the bench press, for core exercises, dumbbells and, starting last summer, yoga -- not that he was an easy convert. "I had to start with poses he wouldn't think were too goofy, if you catch my drift," says Mancias. Still, there was James at a hotel in Los Angeles last summer, busting out some downward dog by the pool in front of his fellow guests.

That James has gained weight is as much a mystery to him as anyone else. He doesn't gulp protein shakes or pound down extra carbs, instead eating three square meals (such as oatmeal, chicken, salmon) prepared by his chef, with the occasional candy snack in between. "It's kind of crazy," James says. "My body's, like, reversed."

A human body doesn't just get that big naturally . He only started working out heavily in the past year? NFL players bust their asses in the gym on a daily bases for years to get a body even somewhat close to that . This article makes me think he is definitely on something....

[SamuelAdams]

Have any NBA players tested positively for PEDs?  I know they occasionally bust someone for marijuana.

[action781]

This article from SI in January of 2009 makes me wonder even more about Lebron and PED'S.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/chris_ballard/01/27/lebron.james/

And just how big is James, exactly? Well, that is a matter of intense speculation around the NBA. He came into the league in 2003 weighing 240 pounds and is listed at 250 in this year's media guide, but that number is clearly low. There are whispers that he goes 265; one report recently had him at 274. "He's at least 260, right?" guessed Jackson, who added that D-ing up James is like "guarding a brick wall."

In an attempt to settle the matter last week I brought a scale to my interview with James at a ballroom in San Francisco's St. Regis Hotel. He laughed, but didn't get on. "I can't let everybody know everything about LeBron," said James, who more than any other star understands the value of mystique. He did joke that he'd "gotten fat" -- this from a man with 5% body fat whose raised veins run like tiny interstates up his arms and calves -- then hemmed and hawed before confiding that he had gained eight pounds this summer "even though I was trying to lose 10." That said, a Cavs source puts James's weight "between 265 and 270

Why would James not allow the public know what he really weighs ? What is he trying to hide? And how do you put on 8 LBS when you are trying to lose 10 LBS?

And then this......

This is sure to exasperate scrawny teenagers toiling in weight rooms the world over, but despite his bodybuilder's physique, James has never really lifted. At least not the way a normal human would to develop such musculature. (Think heavy weight, low reps, lots of grunting and Metallica.)

Rather, James began working out seriously only last June. "He just messed around in the weight room and got by on raw strength his first few years," says Cavs trainer Mike Mancias, who oversees all of James's conditioning work. Even now, James eschews what he calls "iron-man championship lifting," such as the bench press, for core exercises, dumbbells and, starting last summer, yoga -- not that he was an easy convert. "I had to start with poses he wouldn't think were too goofy, if you catch my drift," says Mancias. Still, there was James at a hotel in Los Angeles last summer, busting out some downward dog by the pool in front of his fellow guests.

That James has gained weight is as much a mystery to him as anyone else. He doesn't gulp protein shakes or pound down extra carbs, instead eating three square meals (such as oatmeal, chicken, salmon) prepared by his chef, with the occasional candy snack in between. "It's kind of crazy," James says. "My body's, like, reversed."

A human body doesn't just get that big naturally . He only started working out heavily in the past year? NFL players bust their asses in the gym on a daily bases for years to get a body even somewhat close to that . This article makes me think he is definitely on something....

I don't think PED's themselves build the muscles though.  I think it's combined that with the lifting heavy weights.  So if he wasn't lifting the heavy weights all of his life, then PEDs shouldn't have made him gain all that muscle mass.  So if that story is true, then perhaps he is just a freak of nature.  I'm a doubter that the whole story is true though.

[action781]

For the sake of pro basketball, I hope he's not using any PED's.

But honestly, I don't think his strength/weight is out of the ordinary.  The man is 6'8", that gives him a lot of extra weight.

Look at an NFL linebacker for example.  Take a 6'1", 240 pound middle linebacker, they say each added inch is approximately 5 pounds (although it would be more for someone like that.  That would put that linebacker at about 280lbs if he was 6'8".  Look at an NFL tight end, say Antonio Gates for example, he's 6'4" and 260 lbs.

So really, LeBron isn't any bigger than a solid nfl linebacker/tight end, so connecting him to PED's is a little premature without any evidence, IMO.

You're right about the weight.  But how much work do those athletes have to put in to get their bodies to that size?  Tons of time in the gym lifting weights. 

And at what expense does that come?  To working on agility.  That's what is so freakish about him - he has the size of a solid nfl linebacker (which would nearly a lifetime of work to develop itself), but the agility of a world class WR or point guard (which would also take a ton of additional time to develop).

[clover]

if Leon Powe is the 'Grown Man', LBJ is the 'Overgrown Man'.

[idrinkdetergent]

Id be surprised if he isn't on PEDs or something. Last year they were showing those commercials with him at ESPN when the guy stole his chair. He was skinny compared to now. And not just by a little bit. I can't fathom how someone could build up that much muscle mass that fast with out using some kind of enhancement.

[nickagneta]

This article from SI in January of 2009 makes me wonder even more about Lebron and PED'S.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/chris_ballard/01/27/lebron.james/

And just how big is James, exactly? Well, that is a matter of intense speculation around the NBA. He came into the league in 2003 weighing 240 pounds and is listed at 250 in this year's media guide, but that number is clearly low. There are whispers that he goes 265; one report recently had him at 274. "He's at least 260, right?" guessed Jackson, who added that D-ing up James is like "guarding a brick wall."

In an attempt to settle the matter last week I brought a scale to my interview with James at a ballroom in San Francisco's St. Regis Hotel. He laughed, but didn't get on. "I can't let everybody know everything about LeBron," said James, who more than any other star understands the value of mystique. He did joke that he'd "gotten fat" -- this from a man with 5% body fat whose raised veins run like tiny interstates up his arms and calves -- then hemmed and hawed before confiding that he had gained eight pounds this summer "even though I was trying to lose 10." That said, a Cavs source puts James's weight "between 265 and 270

Why would James not allow the public know what he really weighs ? What is he trying to hide? And how do you put on 8 LBS when you are trying to lose 10 LBS?

And then this......

This is sure to exasperate scrawny teenagers toiling in weight rooms the world over, but despite his bodybuilder's physique, James has never really lifted. At least not the way a normal human would to develop such musculature. (Think heavy weight, low reps, lots of grunting and Metallica.)

Rather, James began working out seriously only last June. "He just messed around in the weight room and got by on raw strength his first few years," says Cavs trainer Mike Mancias, who oversees all of James's conditioning work. Even now, James eschews what he calls "iron-man championship lifting," such as the bench press, for core exercises, dumbbells and, starting last summer, yoga -- not that he was an easy convert. "I had to start with poses he wouldn't think were too goofy, if you catch my drift," says Mancias. Still, there was James at a hotel in Los Angeles last summer, busting out some downward dog by the pool in front of his fellow guests.

That James has gained weight is as much a mystery to him as anyone else. He doesn't gulp protein shakes or pound down extra carbs, instead eating three square meals (such as oatmeal, chicken, salmon) prepared by his chef, with the occasional candy snack in between. "It's kind of crazy," James says. "My body's, like, reversed."

A human body doesn't just get that big naturally . He only started working out heavily in the past year? NFL players bust their asses in the gym on a daily bases for years to get a body even somewhat close to that . This article makes me think he is definitely on something....

I don't think PED's themselves build the muscles though.  I think it's combined that with the lifting heavy weights.  So if he wasn't lifting the heavy weights all of his life, then PEDs shouldn't have made him gain all that muscle mass.  So if that story is true, then perhaps he is just a freak of nature.  I'm a doubter that the whole story is true though.

My question to this, and maybe someone in the bodybuilding or medical field can answer this, can HGH be used to build larger muscles by simply exercising the muscles without the heavy lifting?

Could he build larger arms and chest and shoulders by simply doing exercises like push ups, pull ups, hand stand push ups, and etc.