Tony Allen is the Celtics Fan's Early Christmas Present

[scoop]

I don't think "Bad Tony" has been in sight all season--what I've seen is a guy getting back in basketball shape with the occasional and completely understandable bad pass or dribble.

In other words, no matter what happens, you're going to be a Tony Allen apologist.  Even Tony's detractors can acknowledge when he plays well.  Why, when he plays poorly, do you make excuses?  Why, when he makes idiotic mistakes, do you call them "understandable"?

No; in other words, I'm going to take the totality of events into my evaluation of his performance.  The fact that he's coming off injury and had no training camp and was basically throw into the fire has a lot to do with his admittedly up-and-down performance in his first 3 games.  You can't expect him to come out and play a perfect game after not playing competitively since last May.  The guy was off his feet for 3 months this offseason and has been in and out of the lineup with various injuries for the last year.  For a guy that strives on playing by feel, he's had nary a stretch of games to develop any rhythm or confidence in the last year.  That has affected his play for the last year.  I think he may finally be over it.

That said, TA does make mental errors from time to time, and he does lose focus as points during the game.  What I've noticed in his play this season is that he's minimized those moments--I've seen a matured Tony Allen, one who's worked extremely hard to get back to the game and one who's approaching the game with greater focus and urgency.  Like I said before, we all mature at different rates, and I think TA's matured in this last year.  This is his time.

I'll say it again and hope it sinks in: with health and consistent minutes, TA's always been an above-average player.  A great majority of the criticism he's received has been from posters who mistake the rusty and injury-compromised play as his actual game.  Even worse, posters like to take it a step further by imparting some kind of mental or character defect as the cause of this rust and injury-compromised play, when in effect he's just been snake-bitten by injuries, just like a plethora of other, better-liked players such as Greg Oden or Leon Powe.  This is both unfair and incorrect and shows what I'd classify as an irrational hatred. 

So, yeah, not every bad moment of Tony's career can be explained away.  But I think it's a mistake to completely ignore the effect injuries have had on his game, both on his development and on his performance the last 2 seasons.  He's still going to have his bad plays, but provided he stays healthy, his good plays will outweigh his bad ones, just like they have throughout the course of his career when he's been healthy.   

Is this the first time you're saying this?

[Roy Hobbs]

well...i guess as a mod...you can say whatever you want...how dare anyway say that your comment was judgememtal...which it was by the way...you win...

Allow me to repeat:

Discussing players -- both their skills and their flaws -- is what people do on a basketball forum.  So long as people are respectful -- and I'll note that your "grow up" comment really isn't -- and otherwise comply with the rules, they're allowed to express whatever viewpoint they want.

If you'd like to criticize the mod staff, please do so in the dedicated thread in the Comments and Remarks forum.  Now please, get back on topic.

[clover]

Ghestnuts roasting on the open fire...

[wdleehi]

I hope TA continues to play well.


Then he can be worth more in a trade then just a nice little expiring contract.


I still want to see him no where close to the playoff rotation where one major bone headed play can rob a team of a win.

[ManUp]

Tony's play is fools gold. Hes always had good games followed by many bad games. The guy is the definition of inconsistent. One minute your high on him then he finds a way to remind you just who he is. This is all deja vu we've all been here before. I'm not going to be fooled by him this time around.

I highly doubt he's able to sustain this level of play. A christmas gift would be if he continues to play this way long enough to become a trade able asset. I don't want to be counting on this guy come play-off time. I have no reason to believe from two games that a 27-28 year old pro basketball player has turned the mental corner.

IMO, the book has been written on Tony. He's a player that will show you enough good to think he's worth while, but he's not. At this point in his career he is what he is. A slasher who turnsover the ball at a ridiculous rate, an athlete who can't stay healthy, and a lock down defender who can't be trusted to defend on the final play. Hopefully we can trade him before bad tony reappears (at the very latest when Daniels returns and his minutes are lowered).

[Roy Hobbs]

I hope TA continues to play well.


Then he can be worth more in a trade then just a nice little expiring contract.


I still want to see him no where close to the playoff rotation where one major bone headed play can rob a team of a win.

If Tony continues to play like he has in the past two games, and does so fairly consistently, I'd be fine with him seeing playoff minutes.  If the guy proves himself for 50 games (with the occasional bad game thrown in), then I'd be fine with him seeing consistent minutes in the playoffs (although, as you say, I may sit him in critical moments.)

However, two games is simply too small of a sample size to suggest that Tony has turned a corner after six seasons.

[jdpapa3]

It used to be the old theory that TA needed a bunch of minutes to be effective. I think Danny is the one who threw that one out there. Last year he got the chance to be the backup wing and wasn't so good in the role. His injury past gets pretty confusing after that initial knee injury on the dunk because he has had a few. I just wonder if his knee is finally ok and he wasn't trusting it last year.

TA is really confusing. I do know that his turnovers will get a lot more frustrating in a close game against a good team. At least it is another wing off the bench that will not kill the team so that Doc won't run Ray and PP into the ground.

I'm still up in the air on the TA era.

[dooyork]

Ghestnuts roasting on the open fire...

Oh Gome All Ye Faithful

[dooyork]

I have been as critical of TA as anyone and have been dying for them to trade him.  But if TA keeps performing the way he has in the last couple games I will be thrilled.  If he ends up as a 4th wing who can actually be of use in games, and if BBD comes back effective, the Cs bench would be by far the best in the league.  At the very least, TA's trade value could go up if he is actually an effective NBA player rather than just a big expiring contract.

[nickagneta]

I still say that part of Tony's resurgent play is based on the horrible quality of basketball team and basketball player he has been playing against since coming back 6 games ago. I don't see how that can be discounted or, as SAMP tries to falsely explain away, that he was only playing the best players on those teams.

[KJ33]

The reality is this, with Daniels out and TA getting healthy, it was an absolute no-brainer that he would get time off the bench.  For those whose hatred borders on irrational, suggesting JR or Lester would get that time shows a complete lack of baskbetball awareness in my opinion.  Has Tony made some boneheaded and headscratching decisions in his day?  He sure has.  But he also brings something that few players on NBA benches can bring.  An instinctive athleticism, both slashing on offense and anticipation on defense.

It is obvious, to me at least, how much talent he has compared to many NBA players, despite his obvious flaws.  Many of the players people wish would play, may not make Tony's mistakes, like Scal, but have absolutely zero possibility to bring something unique to the table like Tony does.  Not making excuses, but since Tony is the type of player whose talent is making things happen, not standing on the weakside and playing off of teammates creating for him, he is bound to make turnovers and mistakes.  Nobody was screaming louder than I was during the Bulls series last year when he was in there, but realistically, it was a situation destined for failure.  He was out the better part of 3 months, then was asked to come back and play spot minutes, sometimes in crucial parts of the game.  Scal was able to do well, precisely because he is a limited player who does not try to do too much.

This is the regular season, not the playoffs, playing many different teams sometimes in a grueling stretch.  Tony adds energy, athleticism and talent off the bench that the C's don't have otherwise.  He has shown better decision making these last few games.  But even if that suffers, it is still a no-brainer for him to get minutes right now, he brings too much not to play him.  He wont be used as the 5th piece late in games, hitting spot up Js, a la Posey.  However, he will spell Ray and Paul during the dog days of the season, and they don't lose much if anything during the 2nd and 3rd quarters when he is in there.  In fact, nobody else on the team could have finished that play from House last night.

[More Banners]

There is no way that one (or even a few) good game off the bench should change anyone's assessment of TA as a player, in light of the 6 years before that.

I do think he's an NBA player.  I wouldn't trust him to execute in a playoff game due to his inconsistency.  I do agree with the assessment of him from previous years that the more minutes he plays, the better he seems, but he still makes mistakes then, but just has some highlights to get people excited; he still isn't consistent enough to be a winner, and seems to struggle with rhythm when given spot minutes.

I would say, if he were 3 inches taller and had a midrange game, that his upside would be Ricky Davis-like:  wing scorer and defender on a very bad team, except that TA is a more willing defender that Buckets was.  His height limits his defense on the wing.

Perhaps next year, a team like Memphis or Milwaukee will want him off the bench, and might want to try him out for the rest of this season.  I'm sure Milwaukee would like an upgrade to Charlie Bell on the wing about now.

[jdpapa3]

The reality is this, with Daniels out and TA getting healthy, it was an absolute no-brainer that he would get time off the bench.  For those whose hatred borders on irrational, suggesting JR or Lester would get that time shows a complete lack of baskbetball awareness in my opinion. 

I think this is a little harsh. We have no idea what these guys look like in practice. Doc may love Lester and was eager to give him a chance to play. We had no way of knowing that before Tony came back.

With the way Tony played last season and the off the court stuff in Chicago, it is reasonable to think that the organization gave up on him and would have preferred to give the minutes to someone with a future on the team. Who knew Tony would be this rejuvenated?

[Chris]

I still say that part of Tony's resurgent play is based on the horrible quality of basketball team and basketball player he has been playing against since coming back 6 games ago. I don't see how that can be discounted or, as SAMP tries to falsely explain away, that he was only playing the best players on those teams.

I agree completely.  Put Tony against a team with no interior defense, and terrible perimeter offensive players, and he is going to look good.  He is not going to pick up charges, because Nathan Jawai certainly isn't stepping in there, and he is not going to be burned by overplaying on defense by Wayne Ellington. 

[nickagneta]

The reality is this, with Daniels out and TA getting healthy, it was an absolute no-brainer that he would get time off the bench.  For those whose hatred borders on irrational, suggesting JR or Lester would get that time shows a complete lack of baskbetball awareness in my opinion. 

I think this is a little harsh. We have no idea what these guys look like in practice. Doc may love Lester and was eager to give him a chance to play. We had no way of knowing that before Tony came back.

With the way Tony played last season and the off the court stuff in Chicago, it is reasonable to think that the organization gave up on him and would have preferred to give the minutes to someone with a future on the team. Who knew Tony would be this rejuvenated?

I am an unabashed Tony hater but I don't recall anyone saying they wanted Hudson and Giddens playing instead of Tony. Heck many of us have even been saying good things about his recent 3 games of good play. I am sick and tired of Tony's inconsistencies and excuses by his supporters but even I know Tony is not so bad that I would want Giddens or Hudson or Walker playing instead of him.