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Kids and Santa
« on: December 15, 2009, 10:35:49 PM »

Offline Redz

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I'll preface this story with a little background.  I was raised in a reformed Jewish household.  I went to temple on Fridays, Hebrew school twice a week, and religious school on Sunday.  I was Bar Mitzvah'ed at 13.  It wasn't until I was married that I started to experience Christmas in my household.  I didn't have a tree in my house until we had kids.  My concept of Santa, was pretty much what I saw on commercials and heard from my Christian friends talking about.  I was around Christmas a lot growing up, but I never really experienced it.  We did our Chanukah thing and that was that.

Santa, to me, was not that big of a deal.  He was the guy at the mall.

Now, having two young daughters who are really into Santa, I finally get to see what all the hubbub was about.  I have to say though, that Santa is way more complicated than I ever imagined.

My girls are 7 and 4.  They have a ton of questions about Santa (especially the little one):  "How does he get down the chimney - head first or feet?", "What if there's a fire?" etc...I chalked it all up to being magic, since clearly any guy who can fly around on a sleigh pulled by reindeer must know a thing or two about magic. 

I also caught on to a little bit of the Santa guilt factor.  The guy is always watching and he's in charge of what you get for Christmas.  That's some serious power. 

We've told our girls that only a few of their presents come from Santa since he has such a ginormous load to carry.  Mom & Dad get the rest. 

They understand that the Santa in a costume that comes to the community center and the one who comes to my wife's workplace are two different guys dressed as Santa - not the real deal.  But they also are under the understanding that the presents they ask those Santas for get relayed to the real Mr. Claus. 

Last weekend they went to see Santa #1 and asked him for a couple of things that were within the parameters of what we told them they might reasonably expect to receive from Santa given his heavy load.  They chose a couple of things that they're really excited about.

So naturally we got them those gifts and will sign them from, "from SC". 

Tonight, my four year old was asking about going to see Santa #2 on Thursday. This party is always a lot of fun.  It's held at a restaurant that is very much involved in town, and for 40+ years has been a local (and tourist) staple -a tough stunt to pull of getting both crowds. Santa coming there every year is a big deal for my girls, and to many families.     

My daughter asked us, "I don't know what to ask the second Santa for."  My wife and I naturally assumed my daughter is thinking she can ask the two Santa for two separate things and get twice the loot.  We told her she had to ask the 2nd Santa for the same stuff as she did with the first Santa,  so that the real Santa wouldn't get too confused (he has all of those lists to keep straight).

She said, "No, it's not that.  I just don't want him to bring the same boxes twice."

My wife and I were dumbfounded that she had thought this concept through and was genuinely concerned about it.  It's just not a concern we could have ever have ever imagined having come up with ourselves. 

We told her Santa would figure it out if you asked for the same stuff twice and not bring two of each!  Now, we didn't get into how cross referencing the lists for differences would be about the same amount of work as cross referencing them for duplicates would be, and she bought the explanation, so we left it at that. 

Still.  Wow. 

So much thought and wonder going involved this Santa guy.

I cherish my children's innocence, and I am glad I have been able to experience Santa through their eyes (and minds).  There's so much nastiness in the world that will begin to seep into their consciousness more and more. It seems with every generation kids get to be kids for less and less time. Thanks to Santa for helping let kids just enjoy being kids for a while longer. 

Please chime in with your experiences with your kids and Santa, or your memories as a kid.

Happy Holidays.
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Re: Kids and Santa
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2009, 11:43:45 PM »

Offline Kevin72790

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Very nice post. I have a lot of great memories of Santa as a child, just like most people, just waking up early in the morning and being so excited to see what Santa brought me.

But let me bring up two serious points here.

1. Over 20% of homeless people in America are children. Those children believe in Santa too. And when Santa doesn't bring them gifts, they automatically think they did something wrong, leading to depression and a bad future. That's why donating even a small $2 toy to Toys For Tots, or some organization like that can make a huge difference.

2. And a personal opinion, yet still a point. It always amazes me, children across the world, no matter what Religion, celebrate and truly believe in Christmas, yet it is still a fact that Santa is not real. Yet, about 95% of the world follows some sort of Religion, only about 5% not believing in God. It's one of the biggest phenominoms in the world today, that adults realize the "make believe" aspect of Santa, Tooth Fairy, Bloody Mary and the Boogey Man, yet God is somehow real.

Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy Holiday everyone. I don't post here much at all, but I wanted to log in to make this post.

Have fun!

Re: Kids and Santa
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2009, 11:47:03 PM »

Offline RAcker

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Wait wait wait.  Are you saying...?

You are.  You're saying that Santa is...


 :'(

Dashed.

My dreams are dashed.  So, my parents? My...

 :'(

Kidding of course.  My daughters are big about staying off of the naughty list.  It's amazing though how often they still forget to obey and act according to "Santa's Good Standard".  It's as if they instinctively know that it's really me keeping tabs.

My oldest will turn 8 this year and I just know the big reveal is about to happen.  The goal then will be making sure that she's not the punk kid at school that runs and tells everybody else.  Luckily, she is just not that kid.  She'll probably just say, "Oh, that makes more sense" and let us off the hook.  The little one, she'll be 3 this year, but she'll be the type that gets upset about it.

Re: Kids and Santa
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2009, 11:48:35 PM »

Offline Redz

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Very nice post. I have a lot of great memories of Santa as a child, just like most people, just waking up early in the morning and being so excited to see what Santa brought me.

But let me bring up two serious points here.

1. Over 20% of homeless people in America are children. Those children believe in Santa too. And when Santa doesn't bring them gifts, they automatically think they did something wrong, leading to depression and a bad future. That's why donating even a small $2 toy to Toys For Tots, or some organization like that can make a huge difference.

2. And a personal opinion, yet still a point. It always amazes me, children across the world, no matter what Religion, celebrate and truly believe in Christmas, yet it is still a fact that Santa is not real. Yet, about 95% of the world follows some sort of Religion, only about 5% not believing in God. It's one of the biggest phenominoms in the world today, that adults realize the "make believe" aspect of Santa, Tooth Fairy, Bloody Mary and the Boogey Man, yet God is somehow real.

Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy Holiday everyone. I don't post here much at all, but I wanted to log in to make this post.

Have fun!

Good stuff Kevin.  We gave a bunch of toys at the fire station Toys for Tots drive and it is a really good thing to do, and to expose your own kids to giving,
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Re: Kids and Santa
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2009, 11:52:21 PM »

Offline RAcker

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Very nice post. I have a lot of great memories of Santa as a child, just like most people, just waking up early in the morning and being so excited to see what Santa brought me.

But let me bring up two serious points here.

1. Over 20% of homeless people in America are children. Those children believe in Santa too. And when Santa doesn't bring them gifts, they automatically think they did something wrong, leading to depression and a bad future. That's why donating even a small $2 toy to Toys For Tots, or some organization like that can make a huge difference.

2. And a personal opinion, yet still a point. It always amazes me, children across the world, no matter what Religion, celebrate and truly believe in Christmas, yet it is still a fact that Santa is not real. Yet, about 95% of the world follows some sort of Religion, only about 5% not believing in God. It's one of the biggest phenominoms in the world today, that adults realize the "make believe" aspect of Santa, Tooth Fairy, Bloody Mary and the Boogey Man, yet God is somehow real.

Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy Holiday everyone. I don't post here much at all, but I wanted to log in to make this post.

Have fun!

Good stuff Kevin.  We gave a bunch of toys at the fire station Toys for Tots drive and it is a really good thing to do, and to expose your own kids to giving,
Excellent point Redz.  Kids won't always believe in the Santa thing, but hopefully it inspires them to give to others that don't have the good fortune that they have had.  At least, that should be the goal if we are doing things the right way and teaching "giving" as the greater experience.

Re: Kids and Santa
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2009, 12:46:06 AM »

Offline Rondo_is_better

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Very nice post. I have a lot of great memories of Santa as a child, just like most people, just waking up early in the morning and being so excited to see what Santa brought me.

But let me bring up two serious points here.

1. Over 20% of homeless people in America are children. Those children believe in Santa too. And when Santa doesn't bring them gifts, they automatically think they did something wrong, leading to depression and a bad future. That's why donating even a small $2 toy to Toys For Tots, or some organization like that can make a huge difference.

2. And a personal opinion, yet still a point. It always amazes me, children across the world, no matter what Religion, celebrate and truly believe in Christmas, yet it is still a fact that Santa is not real. Yet, about 95% of the world follows some sort of Religion, only about 5% not believing in God. It's one of the biggest phenominoms in the world today, that adults realize the "make believe" aspect of Santa, Tooth Fairy, Bloody Mary and the Boogey Man, yet God is somehow real.

Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy Holiday everyone. I don't post here much at all, but I wanted to log in to make this post.

Have fun!

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Re: Kids and Santa
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2009, 02:01:23 AM »

Offline Bahku

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Santa Claus means many things to many people, and the decision whether or not to let one's children believe has been bandied back-and-forth for ages, and always will be. Some think it's a terrible thing, that it's "The Big Lie" and not at all worth deceiving your children and undermining their faith in you. In the end, each parent must choose for themselves, or between the two of them.

I chose to let my children believe ... I believed when I was a child, and while I was devastated when I found out the truth, to this day Christmas has a magical quality that goes beyond words or description for me, and it's this magical quality that now translates for me into the birth of a sacred child in a manger, so long ago in Bethlehem ... and that's important to me, for many reasons.

I know many here are not Christians, and that Santa represents something different to each, but for me Santa is a symbol of giving, and a symbol of the ultimate gift that God gave to me in the person of Jesus. Whether you believe in the Savior or not, it still represents sacrifice and selflessness, and a time of year when people put others before themselves.

It would be nice if we treated every day like Christmas, and kept that same sense of giving with us throughout the year, but the realities of life and the ways of this world make it difficult to do so ... we get so caught up in possessions and accomplishments, that we forget what's truly important ... like friendship, love, sacrifice, forgiveness, giving, caring, and thoughtfulness.

In a word, others ... that's what all these things have in common, that's what Christmas and Santa Claus and presents and kindness are all about ... the other people in our lives that mean something to us, strangers who are in need of nothing more than someone caring about them, recognizing those who consider us special, reaching out to someone who may be hardened from life or bitter from past experience.

It's funny in a way, but to this day, every year on Christmas Eve, no matter where I am, I wait until it's very late, and I go outside and look up at the stars shining in the cold of a winter's night, and I think of all the children ... some of whom may have dozens of presents under their Christmas tree waiting for morning and a full stocking ... some of whom may not even have a place they can call home ...

Some of whom may go to bed each night warm and content and with a full stomach ... some of whom may be cold and hungry and without parents ... some of whom may have more toys than they can even keep track of ... and some of whom may have never had one new toy to call their own their entire life ... and all of those children, no matter where they are or what situation they're in, have one thing in common: The need to be loved.

When I stand there in the cold under those stars on Christmas Eve, it's that thought of that one thing that binds this whole world together, that makes Christmas and Santa Claus and Baby Jesus and that special night so magical: The need to be loved. The hardest heart and the coldest soul on the face of this planet has that same need, and it's the one magical thing that can transform any soul, no matter how empty.

Christmas is that time of year when that need - that magical, selfless, caring, transforming need - is put above everything else ... is placed upon the mantle for all to see ... is gently set as a star on the top of the tree to shine it's light ... is wrapped in paper and decorated and given away ... is heard in the laughter of a child ... is seen in the twinkle of an elderly person's eye ... is felt as fullness of a hot meal in the stomach of a homeless person ...

Sure, it may be far too short-lived, and it may be much too commercialized and used by some for monetary gain, and it may be hypocritical at times and over-done, but it's still Christmas, and it's still something special, and it still carries with it that one gift that we all need, no matter who we are or where we live or what our situation in life ... that one thing that we all need so desperately that binds us together ...

The need to be loved ... and wanted, and cared about, and thought about, and needed. That's what makes Christmas so special ... that's what Santa Claus represents to me, that's what I learned from my parents when they decided to let me believe, that's what I wanted to pass on to my children in the form of a red suit and snowy white beard and bowl-full-of-jelly, as silly as it may seem ... and that's what makes Christmas magical for me to this day.

It's different for everyone, but for me, that's not a bad thing ... for me, it was worth the disappointment I first felt when I discovered there wasn't really reindeer landing on the roof of my house, because I think I knew even then that it represented something much bigger, and something very real after all. So to this day I still embrace it, and I still feel the excitement of childhood at Christmas ... despite my age.

Besides, no one has yet to prove to me conclusively that the magic doesn't exist, and that there isn't really a Santa Claus ... so yes, the bell still rings for me ... loud and long and clear. Merry Christmas. ;)
« Last Edit: December 16, 2009, 02:12:28 AM by Bahku »
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Re: Kids and Santa
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2009, 02:13:24 AM »

Offline ManUp

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Santa was never really big around my way. We try to focus on what it's really supposed to be about with my family. I was never really sure whether or not he was real when I was young. I always leaned on the he was fake, but I wanted to believe he was real. Anyway I had great christmas memories regardless.

It's a great thing your doing with the kids. I'm sure they'll cherish the memories. TP

Re: Kids and Santa
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2009, 03:26:34 AM »

Offline BballTim

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  I'll never forget one of my first encounters with Santa. I was probably 2 or 3. My parents were probably trying to enforce "Santa is watching" with my older brother and sister (and possibly with me). They had someone (a neighbor or friend) dress up as Santa and look in the window while we were at the dinner table. When I saw his face I kind of pointed at the window, much too frightened to speak. I never had any issues with being afraid of Santa but I'll never forget that moment.

  I'm also big on Toys for Tots, btw.

Re: Kids and Santa
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2009, 06:29:40 AM »

Offline Kevin72790

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Bahku - Partying, socializing, celebrating, giving presents on December 25th was around long before Christianity and the actual "Christmas" was ever around though. Christian historians even doubt that Jesus was born on Christmas day, or anytime close to it.

Regardless, nice post, and I'm glad you still feel the 'magic' of Christmas. It really is a beautiful thing to see children believe in it.

I'm 19 and I don't have any kids (of course), but seeing my cousins and stuff at a younger age was fun. Now they are mostly around 10-14, except for a few younger ones, and you can tell they are losing the belief in Santa.

I'll tell you one thing though. I predict kids are gonna stop believing in Santa at a younger age. One reason I FOR SURE found out Santa wasn't real was through, well, the internet. Kids are starting to use the internet at 3 years old now...and these children will probably find out at 6-8 instead of 9-12 now. Scary thought, because learning that Santa isn't real seems to coincide with the end of childhood and puberty development time.

Re: Kids and Santa
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2009, 06:59:38 AM »

Offline Casperian

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Santa is your typical catholic concept of "manipulating with guilt", imo.

Seriously, I remember that I´ve found out Santa isn´t real when I was six, and how it ruined my christmas.
Not because he doesn´t exist, but because my parents lied to me. I didn´t understand that they only tried to be good parents and raise a normal kid.
I think the problem was that I´ve learned it from my 12-year-old cousin, who thought it was fun to destroy my beliefs, and not from my parents.

Next christmas, I suggest you tell your older daughter the truth, and take her with you when you buy the presents for the younger one. She will be disappointed, but if you tell her that you´d think she´s now old enough to know the truth, and make the whole "buying presents"-thingy a good experience for her (maybe tell her it´s still possible that Santa exists, you just never saw him), at least you won´t have to deal with any trust-issues.

Not trying to give any smart advices, I don´t have any kids myself, I was simply talking from my own experience as a kid here.
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Re: Kids and Santa
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2009, 07:09:39 AM »

Offline Bahku

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Bahku - Partying, socializing, celebrating, giving presents on December 25th was around long before Christianity and the actual "Christmas" was ever around though. Christian historians even doubt that Jesus was born on Christmas day, or anytime close to it.

Regardless, nice post, and I'm glad you still feel the 'magic' of Christmas. It really is a beautiful thing to see children believe in it.

I'm 19 and I don't have any kids (of course), but seeing my cousins and stuff at a younger age was fun. Now they are mostly around 10-14, except for a few younger ones, and you can tell they are losing the belief in Santa.

I'll tell you one thing though. I predict kids are gonna stop believing in Santa at a younger age. One reason I FOR SURE found out Santa wasn't real was through, well, the internet. Kids are starting to use the internet at 3 years old now...and these children will probably find out at 6-8 instead of 9-12 now. Scary thought, because learning that Santa isn't real seems to coincide with the end of childhood and puberty development time.

Thanks. That's very true ... they (historians) believe Jesus was actually born nearer to the middle of August, though I doubt we'll ever know for sure ... I was not trying to define Christmas for others or even that day im general, (though Christmas, literally, is about Jesus, as one can see from the spelling), but only what it has come to mean for me ... and how it translates as Santa Claus. You're right about kids finding out earlier ... they grow up far too fast these days, in my opinion, and are knowledgable about this and sex and far too many other things, thanks to the internet. I believed in Santa Claus until I was 11, as the world was a far different place then, and a kid could go for a long walk alone without fear of ending up on a milk carton. All my friends believed, too, and there was only one kid in my whole class who had parents that were divorced. Was it a perfect world? Not remotely ... just different ... but I think the age of innocence has dropped quite a bit ... and it makes me a little sad. As I inferred, there are positive experiences with Santa Claus and negative, (like the one below), and in the end, each parent must decide for themselves. I was very hurt when I made the "discovery", but I also wouldn't change it for the world ... and my kids have told me the same thing.
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Re: Kids and Santa
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2009, 07:17:42 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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I have an articule I had my students read yesterday that uses science and historical fact to talk about Santa (and Rudolph)


Apparently, it destroyed a few students childhood.

I will give you some highlights.


The flying sled probably came from people being high.  (they backed this up)

Rudolph's nose is red most likely because of infection.


And the only way Santa's Raindeer would have antlers at Christmas was if they were castrated. 

Re: Kids and Santa
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2009, 07:59:43 AM »

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Hey Redz,

Great post.

Over here in Holland we don't have the same kind of Christmas. There is no Santa, since we got a similar saint here, Sinterklaas. He does about the same thing Santa does, just on a different date (5th of December.)

There has been a shift over the past few years, and more and more people start giving each other gifts on Christmas instead of Sinterklaas. It fits quite well with all the christian traditions and the general holiday feeling.

My point however, is that you worded it brilliantly. Most people nowadays speak of Santa as a tool for commerce to yearly generate enormous amounts of profit. While this is probably true, I wish more people could see it for what it *is*, and not for its intended purpose.

I am, as some of you might have noticed, very fond of "looking on the bright side of life" (thank you, Monty Python) and people should more often be grateful for what they get, instead of wondering why they got it in the first place.

Sorry for polluting this topic with this slightly off-topic source for a serious debate, but I really think a lot of people in this world are not ignorant enough to live happy lives. There *is* a good side of ignorance, and it generally serves to cancel out the nasty side-effects. If you choose to be ignorant about for example Santa Clause, and accept it as a fun way to spend money and time, you'll get a lot of fond memories in return. If you choose to be p---ed off at the media, you'll ruin something beautiful without getting anything in return.

Again, sorry for the rant ;)



Here, to make up for it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlBiLNN1NhQ



Your post seriously made me appreciate Christmas again. See how special it can be.

Re: Kids and Santa
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2009, 09:07:56 AM »

Offline Redz

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Santa is your typical catholic concept of "manipulating with guilt", imo.

Seriously, I remember that I´ve found out Santa isn´t real when I was six, and how it ruined my christmas.
Not because he doesn´t exist, but because my parents lied to me. I didn´t understand that they only tried to be good parents and raise a normal kid.
I think the problem was that I´ve learned it from my 12-year-old cousin, who thought it was fun to destroy my beliefs, and not from my parents.

Next christmas, I suggest you tell your older daughter the truth, and take her with you when you buy the presents for the younger one. She will be disappointed, but if you tell her that you´d think she´s now old enough to know the truth, and make the whole "buying presents"-thingy a good experience for her (maybe tell her it´s still possible that Santa exists, you just never saw him), at least you won´t have to deal with any trust-issues.

Not trying to give any smart advices, I don´t have any kids myself, I was simply talking from my own experience as a kid here.

I think my older daughter already sort of gets that Santa's not 100% real, but she loves the idea so much that she buys into it.  They'll be ok with it. 

Yup