End of game strategy: Pierce bringing the ball up

[Roy Hobbs]

As we all probably noticed last night, at the end of the game Doc decided to have Pierce bring the ball up, rather than Rondo.  The Celts weren't hurt by this, although Paul almost threw the ball away before it made it's way to Ray for his decisive three pointer.

Do you agree with this strategy?  It goes without saying that Rondo is our best distributor, and he's probably our best penetrator, too.  However, presumably the reason that Pierce was handling the ball is because he's a much better free throw shooter. 

What do you think?  Who would be your primary ball-handler at the end of games?

[Kiorrik]

As we all probably noticed last night, at the end of the game Doc decided to have Pierce bring the ball up, rather than Rondo.  The Celts weren't hurt by this, although Paul almost threw the ball away before it made it's way to Ray for his decisive three pointer.

Do you agree with this strategy?  It goes without saying that Rondo is our best distributor, and he's probably our best penetrator, too.  However, presumably the reason that Pierce was handling the ball is because he's a much better free throw shooter. 

What do you think?  Who would be your primary ball-handler at the end of games?

You have a point there, but I also think one of the issues is Rondo's shooting.

Who on this team would you have take that last shot, when in a pickle?

When Rondo has the ball, everyone wants *someone else* to take that last shot.

So I guess the general thought (though I don't agree with this) is: give *that someone* the ball to begin with, so you're sure you don't have to get it to him.

Does that make any sense?

[Donoghus]

I mentioned it in the game thread last night but I'll reiterate it here.   I hated that possession.  The Celtics got bailed out with a very lucky play and shot by Ray Allen.  

I didn't, at all, like the idea of Pierce sitting at the top of the key dribbling down the shot clock while everyone around him was just standing around.  By the time things started to develop, there were less than 10 seconds left on the shot clock and the play seemed to provide to set us up a rather low percentage shot.  

This team thrives on the offensive end when there is passing and movement away from the ball, not isolation and stagnation.  I didn't like the idea of completely changed the offensive mentality at the end of the game to a method that I consider a weakness for this team.  

[Kiorrik]

*evil grin*

TRADE PIERCE!!!1



*runs away giggling*

[housecall]

I think its situaional at times but what about Sugar Ray bringing it up at times if we feel the other team will foul the player?Ray not only is a decent ballhandler but a 90+%freethrow shooter...Pierce would be my second option.

[Kiorrik]

I think its situaional at times but what about Sugar Ray bringing it up at times if we feel the other team will foul the player?

What about it?

I think it's only logical.

[jdpapa3]

Depends on the situation. If there is one possession, then I am fine with Pierce having the ball and doing a p&r with Garnett.

When it is late in the game, but there are still more possessions expected, I want Rondo with the ball. He is by far our best decision maker, dribbler, passer. Pierce turns it over too much and Ray can be kind of a spaz if he has the ball too long. Also, when Rondo isn't directly handling the ball, it is common for the other team to just ignore him in coverage and they rarely get hurt by it. So, Rondo's man is able to help out on everyone else.

[dinguspie]

When it is late in the game, but there are still more possessions expected, I want Rondo with the ball. He is by far our best decision maker, dribbler, passer. Pierce turns it over too much and Ray can be kind of a spaz if he has the ball too long. Also, when Rondo isn't directly handling the ball, it is common for the other team to just ignore him in coverage and they rarely get hurt by it. So, Rondo's man is able to help out on everyone else.

Completely agree, although I would extend this argument to include the final possession.  Give Rondo the ball!

[fairweatherfan]

Depends on the situation. If there is one possession, then I am fine with Pierce having the ball and doing a p&r with Garnett.

When it is late in the game, but there are still more possessions expected, I want Rondo with the ball. He is by far our best decision maker, dribbler, passer. Pierce turns it over too much and Ray can be kind of a spaz if he has the ball too long. Also, when Rondo isn't directly handling the ball, it is common for the other team to just ignore him in coverage and they rarely get hurt by it. So, Rondo's man is able to help out on everyone else.

I agree with this except if we are slightly ahead some coaches may decide to take the Hack-A-Rondo approach, which would probably hurt us.

Also important to note that Memphis had the Pierce/Garnett pick + roll read perfectly - they doubled Pierce then had Gay get into the passing lane to disrupt the dish to Kevin. Luckily Ray got it and hit a tough one.  We may need to start switching things up a bit to avoid becoming too predictable.

[the_Bird]

As soon as Rondo starts hitting 70% of his free throws, the ball's in his hands.  That's where his bad shooting has hurt us, it's hard to let him handle the ball in end-of-game situations since they'll just foul him, and he's not much of a threat to hit a jumper so he's not as valuable off the ball either.

But, once Rondo starts hitting 70% of his free throws (like an NBA point guard needs to, at a bare minimum), the rock'll be in his hands.

[Drucci]

As soon as Rondo starts hitting 70% of his free throws, the ball's in his hands.  That's where his bad shooting has hurt us, it's hard to let him handle the ball in end-of-game situations since they'll just foul him, and he's not much of a threat to hit a jumper.

But, once Rondo starts hitting 70% of his free throws (like an NBA point guard needs to, at a bare minimum), the rock'll be in his hands.

Not so sure about that. Doc would be much more relieved if Paul or Ray had the ball in his hands because even if Rondo shoots at 70% some day, both are better free throw shooters, especially under pressure.

I also think that Doc ensured the ball was in Paul's hands because if it was in Rondo's, the Grizzlies could have done a great ball denial on all the other 4 players to force Rondo to shoot from midrange or from three ; on the contrary, when Paul has the ball in his hands and brings it up on the court, he is much more dangerous in that situation since you can't foul (well you can, but you're not happy to do so) and then, after midcourt, he can pass the ball but first and foremost create his (game-winning or dagger in that situation) shot. So, the opponent has an easier way to defend the possession if Rondo has the ball, I think.

However, if Rondo keeps progressing on shooting like he is doing this season, he will be more trusted in end of game possession but he's not yet already, although he has shown excellent flashes against so far, most notably against the Wizards.

[incoherent]

pierce hits game winners and makes game winning assists.  hes the man in crunch time in my book.

[the_Bird]

Let's not ignore the ego effect, as well.  The ball's in Pierce's hands, that means something; this is still Paul Pierce's team, not Rondo's team (yet). 

At some point, there will be a passing of the guard (so to speak), but as of December 2009, the one to control the end of game is still PP.

[2short]

I noticed this and never got to put a thread up.  When ANYONE but Rondo has the ball bringing it up our offense is sickly.  I wasn't sure if doc wanted PP to have the ball since rondo had made some poor plays right before or if it was a ft thing (or matchup).  Not knocking doc on it because we did win.  If it was ft shooting then as people have stated give it to ray.  No one in nba can keep with rondo driving & his dishing is great.?
I'm fine with rondo's new shooting touch and rather have the ball in his hands (with ray close by)

[slamtheking]

As soon as Rondo starts hitting 70% of his free throws, the ball's in his hands.  That's where his bad shooting has hurt us, it's hard to let him handle the ball in end-of-game situations since they'll just foul him, and he's not much of a threat to hit a jumper.

But, once Rondo starts hitting 70% of his free throws (like an NBA point guard needs to, at a bare minimum), the rock'll be in his hands.

Not so sure about that. Doc would be much more relieved if Paul or Ray had the ball in his hands because even if Rondo shoots at 70% some day, both are better free throw shooters, especially under pressure.

I also think that Doc ensured the ball was in Paul's hands because if it was in Rondo's, the Grizzlies could have done a great ball denial on all the other 4 players to force Rondo to shoot from midrange or from three ; on the contrary, when Paul has the ball in his hands and brings it up on the court, he is much more dangerous in that situation since you can't foul (well you can, but you're not happy to do so) and then, after midcourt, he can pass the ball but first and foremost create his (game-winning or dagger in that situation) shot. So, the opponent has an easier way to defend the possession if Rondo has the ball, I think.

However, if Rondo keeps progressing on shooting like he is doing this season, he will be more trusted in end of game possession but he's not yet already, although he has shown excellent flashes against so far, most notably against the Wizards.

I don't think that's necessarily true.  The other team may elect to deny a pass but C's can move the other players to the wings and let Rondo take his man off the dribble.  No one can stay with him when he drives and no PG is big enough to block him.  Conley wouldn't have been able to stop him.  If someone helps out on the drive, Rondo will find the open man.  Of course, that wouldn't prevent Rondo's man from implementing the Hack-a-Rondo strategy.