John lackey takes physical in Boston: deal may be imminent!

[Tr1boy]

They other big news is that Halladay is going to the Phillies, Cliff Lee to Seattle and propspects from Seattle to Toronto.

Apparently Lee did not want to sign an extension in Philadelphia, while Halladay wanted to play there.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/12/14/phillies.halladay.lee/index.html?eref=BrkNews

It's just crazy what the pitching market is, with Lee asking for a deal around $23 million per season.  It makes $17 million look reasonable.

Lee is good but 23 million per season is stupid. Not even the yankees nor redsox would think of that then who in the league will cough that money up. Boy some of these players think the mlb is like a playground for adults

The mariners prob don't feel their prospect is going to be good/or is damaged goods with a light of potential left so they will see what lackey can do to help the rotation and if he doesn't sign , trade him during off season (for the playoffs). Its a decent game plan by them

[Roy Hobbs]

They other big news is that Halladay is going to the Phillies, Cliff Lee to Seattle and propspects from Seattle to Toronto.

Apparently Lee did not want to sign an extension in Philadelphia, while Halladay wanted to play there.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/12/14/phillies.halladay.lee/index.html?eref=BrkNews

It's just crazy what the pitching market is, with Lee asking for a deal around $23 million per season.  It makes $17 million look reasonable.

Lee is good but 23 million per season is stupid. Not even the yankees nor redsox would think of that then who in the league will cough that money up. Boy some of these players think the mlb is like a playground for adults

Word on the street is that Halladay has an extension in the works for 3 years, $70 million.  It's all monopoly money at this point.

[Tr1boy]

How is lackey the top ace for all those teams? Yes he will be the ace on the nationals but so would wakefield. You think of any other decent or top contending teams and he is not your ace and maybe barely passable as the #2 guy.

You can't mistaken workhorse vs real talent. So what if a guy can give you 8 innings consistantly yet gives up  4 or more runs each and every game? Look at his game by game stats and you will see alot of 4, 5, 6 runs given up in a row then maybe a 0 run game here and 1 run given up there etc.

So what this proves about lackey is you don't know what to expect from him, so there is a dependability factor . He gives you nice 0 run games against the nationals but yet against the yankees he can't muster runs less than 4.

I rather actually see him give up more 3 run games with a few 4 run games then to see him give up 4,5,6 runs a game and suddenly give up 0. You just dont' know what you will be expecting from him.

That is a sign of a #3 or #4 pitcher. An ace controls opponents, and it doesn't matter who he pitches against. Lackey on the other hand does well against certain teams, after losing to them badly 5 in a row, i don't know what else, pitches well on monday nights for some reason etc

[Big_Matt34]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/10525042/Sources:-BoSox-discussing-deal-with-Cameron

Sox are busy today, and i wont make this its own thread until its done, but it looks like the Sox may be close to signing Mike Cameron to a 2 year deal. He will play most of the time in LF i assume with Hermida getting some time there. If it happens i freakin love this move, he is still an elite CF'er so he would catch anything hit to left at Fenway, he will hit 25 homers or so, strike out a ton, hit around .260, take alot of walks and crush lefties. His OPS against lefties the last 5 years are

2009: .954
2008: .951
2007: .914
2006: .810
2005: .978

That would be an awesome signing, and very affordable. That OF with Cameron/Ellsbury/Drew will be as good as it gets especially if Ellsbury learns to get good reads off the bat. Now either sign Adrian Beltre, or trade for one of A-Gon/Cabrera and this will be a hell of an off season.

[Mean Gerald Green]

I rather actually see him give up more 3 run games with a few 4 run games then to see him give up 4,5,6 runs a game and suddenly give up 0. You just dont' know what you will be expecting from him.

I do know what I'll be expecting from him, actually, because I'm the one expecting it. I know what my thoughts are...QED Ill know what to expect.

[Quinn]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/10525042/Sources:-BoSox-discussing-deal-with-Cameron

Sox are busy today, and i wont make this its own thread until its done, but it looks like the Sox may be close to signing Mike Cameron to a 2 year deal. He will play most of the time in LF i assume with Hermida getting some time there. If it happens i freakin love this move, he is still an elite CF'er so he would catch anything hit to left at Fenway, he will hit 25 homers or so, strike out a ton, hit around .260, take alot of walks and crush lefties. His OPS against lefties the last 5 years are

2009: .954
2008: .951
2007: .914
2006: .810
2005: .978

That would be an awesome signing, and very affordable. That OF with Cameron/Ellsbury/Drew will be as good as it gets especially if Ellsbury learns to get good reads off the bat. Now either sign Adrian Beltre, or trade for one of A-Gon/Cabrera and this will be a hell of an off season.

ESPN seems to think the lackey signing sets them up perfectly to trade for Adrian.
I'm smiling about the Sox today :]

[Tr1boy]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/10525042/Sources:-BoSox-discussing-deal-with-Cameron

Sox are busy today, and i wont make this its own thread until its done, but it looks like the Sox may be close to signing Mike Cameron to a 2 year deal. He will play most of the time in LF i assume with Hermida getting some time there. If it happens i freakin love this move, he is still an elite CF'er so he would catch anything hit to left at Fenway, he will hit 25 homers or so, strike out a ton, hit around .260, take alot of walks and crush lefties. His OPS against lefties the last 5 years are

2009: .954
2008: .951
2007: .914
2006: .810
2005: .978

That would be an awesome signing, and very affordable. That OF with Cameron/Ellsbury/Drew will be as good as it gets especially if Ellsbury learns to get good reads off the bat. Now either sign Adrian Beltre, or trade for one of A-Gon/Cabrera and this will be a hell of an off season.

cameron is a bottom of the lineup hitter with good defense. At least you know he will give you solid defense, a ton of strikeouts but min 20 home runs and 70 rbi's. If the 2 year deal is for 5-7 million, its a good signing.

I like the redsox if they cannot get Gonzalez or Beltre to try to get Nick Johnson. The guy has one of the best eyes in baseball and one of the few that walks more than strikes out with OBP hovering over 390. You could then shift youk to third and Vmart just catches

[Quinn]

trade buch and prospects (hopefully not kelly or westmoreland) for adrian and this  is your lineup

CF J.Ellsbury
2B D.Pedroia
1B A.Gonzalez
3B K.Youkilis
C V.Martinez
DH D.Ortiz
RF J.Drew
LF M.Cameron
SS M.Scutoro

The Idea of this lineup is freakin' frightening.
Everyone is Gold-glove caliber,
and put with a rotation of

Beckett
Lester
Lackey
Dice-K
Wake

The Red Sox, in my opinion would be better than the Yankees.

[nickagneta]

How is lackey the top ace for all those teams? Yes he will be the ace on the nationals but so would wakefield. You think of any other decent or top contending teams and he is not your ace and maybe barely passable as the #2 guy.

You can't mistaken workhorse vs real talent. So what if a guy can give you 8 innings consistantly yet gives up  4 or more runs each and every game? Look at his game by game stats and you will see alot of 4, 5, 6 runs given up in a row then maybe a 0 run game here and 1 run given up there etc.

So what this proves about lackey is you don't know what to expect from him, so there is a dependability factor . He gives you nice 0 run games against the nationals but yet against the yankees he can't muster runs less than 4.

I rather actually see him give up more 3 run games with a few 4 run games then to see him give up 4,5,6 runs a game and suddenly give up 0. You just dont' know what you will be expecting from him.

That is a sign of a #3 or #4 pitcher. An ace controls opponents, and it doesn't matter who he pitches against. Lackey on the other hand does well against certain teams, after losing to them badly 5 in a row, i don't know what else, pitches well on monday nights for some reason etc

Triboy, triboy, triboy.

Lackey would be a #1 starter on Cleveland, Baltimore, Texas, Oakland, Minnesota in the American league and probably half the team in the pitching pathetic National League. He could easily be a #2 starter on playoff teams like the Yankees, the Angels, the Twins, the Dodgers, and the Rockies.

As for looking at individual game stats game by game, I see no sense. ERA has been the best indicator of pitching performance for a hundred years. He pitches on average a full run below the league average year in and year out. There's just not a lot of pitchers that do that in this league.

BTW, just how many starting pitchers last year ended up with ERA's under 3.00 against the Yankees? To point to Lackey's performance against them as proof of his mediocrity is rather lame.

[Chris]

How is lackey the top ace for all those teams? Yes he will be the ace on the nationals but so would wakefield. You think of any other decent or top contending teams and he is not your ace and maybe barely passable as the #2 guy.

He was the Ace for the team that knocked the Sox out of the playoffs last year.  That is really all I need to know.  If you can add a guy like that as your third starter, you have to do it.  The Sox have money to play with, since there are really very few other players out there worth pursuing, and at the very least, Lackey has been consistent enough for you to know that he likely won't end up being a complete dud. 

This Sox team is eating money left and right.  To slightly overpay for a very productive and reliable top of the rotation starter is absolutely worth it.

[MBz]

If we sign Cameron, he's playing CF while Ellsbury moves to left.  Ellsbury is not a good defensive player.  I'm not sure how he got the reputation of being a good defensive player, but he really isn't.  His UZR/150 is -18.3 which puts him in the bottom 10 of the league for all outfielders.  This means hes about 18 runs below average per 150 games.  That's not good.  Also, if we want Gonzalez it's Buchholz and a high level prospect.  More then likely it would have to be Kelly, I don't see any other way of getting it done.

[celticsclay]

I gotta say I have never been that impressed with Lackey. He seems like a number 3 starter we are way over paying for. Burnett definetely has better stuff, and from my impression, better stuff. I have a feeling we may be eating some of this deal down the line. I would have been blown away if we could have gotten a Lee or Halladay.

[jambr380]

If we sign Cameron, he's playing CF while Ellsbury moves to left.  Ellsbury is not a good defensive player.  I'm not sure how he got the reputation of being a good defensive player, but he really isn't.  His UZR/150 is -18.3 which puts him in the bottom 10 of the league for all outfielders.  This means hes about 18 runs below average per 150 games.  That's not good.  Also, if we want Gonzalez it's Buchholz and a high level prospect.  More then likely it would have to be Kelly, I don't see any other way of getting it done.

I am sure there are many stats that prove Ellsbury isn't a top center fielder, but man, he makes more amazing plays than any other player in the game (these days). It's like he learned from Crisp before he left...

As for Lackey, I am pretty psyched. He is a proven workhorse that does well year after year. They may have paid a little too much, but Roy makes a good point- at least it makes the Angels worse (the Mariners are looking real good now, though).

[Big_Matt34]

I am sure there are many stats that prove Ellsbury isn't a top center fielder, but man, he makes more amazing plays than any other player in the game (these days). It's like he learned from Crisp before he left...

I like Ellsbury, but those amazing plays are only because he gets late reads on the ball and needs to dive to make up for it, Coco makes alot of those plays look routine.

Id prefer they have Cameron in CF and Ellsbury in LF but i doubt thats what happens, either way the defense will be very good.

[yall hate]

If we sign Cameron, he's playing CF while Ellsbury moves to left.  Ellsbury is not a good defensive player.  I'm not sure how he got the reputation of being a good defensive player, but he really isn't.  His UZR/150 is -18.3 which puts him in the bottom 10 of the league for all outfielders.  This means hes about 18 runs below average per 150 games.  That's not good.  Also, if we want Gonzalez it's Buchholz and a high level prospect.  More then likely it would have to be Kelly, I don't see any other way of getting it done.

wasnt he like +20 the year before (something around that).  There is no doubt in my mind he is better then average, however he certainly needs to work on getting better reads on the ball...many of his spectacular plays could have been easy plays if he got the proper jump.

I gotta say I have never been that impressed with Lackey. He seems like a number 3 starter we are way over paying for. Burnett definetely has better stuff, and from my impression, better stuff. I have a feeling we may be eating some of this deal down the line. I would have been blown away if we could have gotten a Lee or Halladay.

I think in light of the Burnett deal, the Lackey deal is wonderful.  Lackey has been healthier, and contrary to you, I think Lackey is a much better pitcher.  Lee or Halladay would have cost Buch +, which is why this is 'potentially' a 'better' deal.


Cameron is interesting, but he is also going to be 37 soon.