Unthinkable: Celtics starting PG

[Mencius]

From that list, Rafer Alston, without a doubt.

I agree completely, for this year and going forward...but I have no idea what his value is terms of a trade (his contract, etc..).  I'm just assuming he would cost us plenty.

I think Rafer would cost a first round pick ... the Celtics don't have much else to offer.

That's a trade well worth doing if Rondo went down with a season ending injury prior to the trade deadline but I'm not convinced that's a good trade for Boston otherwise.

Last year the Magic had to give up Brian Cook, Adonal Foyle, Mike Wilks and a 2009 first round draft pick for Alston in a three way trade where Houston got Kyle Lowry from Memphis.

If the Celtics are dealing from a position of weakness, Baby and a first rounder would have to go to get a player like Alston who has already proven he can be plugged into a contending team's open PG slot and succeed.

I disagree with this.  The players the Magic gave up were mere contracts who can't play.  The only thing of value was the pick; something like the 26th pick or so.  Baby was himself the 2nd pick of the second round.  He's young, has experience, and is at least worth a late first rounder, so NJ getting Baby and whatever contracts we have to throw in to make it work is at least as good as what the Magic gave up for him.  We would not have to throw in a first rounder.  Baby IS the equivalent of a late first rounder.

That said, I don't know that I'd want to do that deal if I were the Celtics, but Alston would be a pretty good backup PG (I think).

[guava_wrench]

From that list, Rafer Alston, without a doubt.

I agree completely, for this year and going forward...but I have no idea what his value is terms of a trade (his contract, etc..).  I'm just assuming he would cost us plenty.

I think Rafer would cost a first round pick ... the Celtics don't have much else to offer.

That's a trade well worth doing if Rondo went down with a season ending injury prior to the trade deadline but I'm not convinced that's a good trade for Boston otherwise.

Last year the Magic had to give up Brian Cook, Adonal Foyle, Mike Wilks and a 2009 first round draft pick for Alston in a three way trade where Houston got Kyle Lowry from Memphis.

If the Celtics are dealing from a position of weakness, Baby and a first rounder would have to go to get a player like Alston who has already proven he can be plugged into a contending team's open PG slot and succeed.

I disagree with this.  The players the Magic gave up were mere contracts who can't play.  The only thing of value was the pick; something like the 26th pick or so.  Baby was himself the 2nd pick of the second round.  He's young, has experience, and is at least worth a late first rounder, so NJ getting Baby and whatever contracts we have to throw in to make it work is at least as good as what the Magic gave up for him.  We would not have to throw in a first rounder.  Baby IS the equivalent of a late first rounder.

That said, I don't know that I'd want to do that deal if I were the Celtics, but Alston would be a pretty good backup PG (I think).

I think you are missing the main point.

Cap flexibility may be worth more than BBD since NJ wants some of the upcoming free agents. A first round pick does not hurt their cap flexibility while adding value to what they are receiving.

[JBcat]

One guy who is playing well this year and under the radar is Luke Ridnour.   He is a true point and he would seem trustworthy running our offense.   Sessions is another guy I like. 

[Roy Hobbs]

I don't know if there's something that we could work out with Indiana for Earl Watson, but I'd explore that possibility.  He's not the best point guard in the world, but he'd be okay.

[Mencius]

From that list, Rafer Alston, without a doubt.

I agree completely, for this year and going forward...but I have no idea what his value is terms of a trade (his contract, etc..).  I'm just assuming he would cost us plenty.

I think Rafer would cost a first round pick ... the Celtics don't have much else to offer.

That's a trade well worth doing if Rondo went down with a season ending injury prior to the trade deadline but I'm not convinced that's a good trade for Boston otherwise.

Last year the Magic had to give up Brian Cook, Adonal Foyle, Mike Wilks and a 2009 first round draft pick for Alston in a three way trade where Houston got Kyle Lowry from Memphis.

If the Celtics are dealing from a position of weakness, Baby and a first rounder would have to go to get a player like Alston who has already proven he can be plugged into a contending team's open PG slot and succeed.

I disagree with this.  The players the Magic gave up were mere contracts who can't play.  The only thing of value was the pick; something like the 26th pick or so.  Baby was himself the 2nd pick of the second round.  He's young, has experience, and is at least worth a late first rounder, so NJ getting Baby and whatever contracts we have to throw in to make it work is at least as good as what the Magic gave up for him.  We would not have to throw in a first rounder.  Baby IS the equivalent of a late first rounder.

That said, I don't know that I'd want to do that deal if I were the Celtics, but Alston would be a pretty good backup PG (I think).

I think you are missing the main point.

Cap flexibility may be worth more than BBD since NJ wants some of the upcoming free agents. A first round pick does not hurt their cap flexibility while adding value to what they are receiving.

Oh, I see.  I think you're right.  They'd rather have the cap space, probably.

[nickagneta]

Couple of guys with multiple years still on their contracts that, if their teams go south over the next 4-6 weeks, I wonder if their teams might like to get out from under their contracts that would interest me would be Leandro Barbosa and Jarrett Jack. I like Roy's Earl Watson idea as well and would make overtures to the Warriors for CJ Watson as well.

[Mencius]

One guy who is playing well this year and under the radar is Luke Ridnour.   He is a true point and he would seem trustworthy running our offense.   Sessions is another guy I like. 

Would love to get Ridnour, but he's expiring, so I don't see any benefit to them unless they're getting something pretty intriguing, which we don't have aside from giving up a first rounder, which I don't think Danny would do.

Sessions would be good too, and Minny might be inclined to part with him, as well as Flynn is playing.

[scoop]

Earl Watson is an expiring. Why would they deal him? He'd also be a bad fit.

Jack has a bad contract for a player of his quality. I wouldn't trade for him.

The problem here is that you need:

- a player who is better than House (and better to the point of overcoming the fact that House has been around for 3 years and the new guy would need to get used to the schemes and build chemistry).

- a player who is an equally good fit, being better isn't enough (meaning he needs to be a very good outside shooter - Rondo+Daniels).

- he isn't under an horrific contract.

Can you get a player like this? You can, if you're willing to pay the price.

Is the price worth paying? I don't think so. In a scenario where Rondo gets injured and the rest of the team remains wealthy, sure. But you don't make decisions based on that kind of scenarios. And if you want, I think it would be wiser to do what Detroit did with Bynum and bring someone back from Europe.

[Roy Hobbs]

Earl Watson is an expiring. Why would they deal him? He'd also be a bad fit.

Why is Watson a bad fit?  He's not perfect, but he can score, distribute, and defend a little.

Also, people are making too much of this "why would a team trade an expiring contract" stuff.  Watson makes $2.8 million.  We could send them Tony Allen (who makes $2.5 million) to save them $300k, plus we could send along up to $3 million in cash.  $3.3 million in savings for a player who has no future in Indiana isn't a bad deal.

[scoop]

Earl Watson is an expiring. Why would they deal him? He'd also be a bad fit.

Why is Watson a bad fit?  He's not perfect, but he can score, distribute, and defend a little.

Also, people are making too much of this "why would a team trade an expiring contract" stuff.  Watson makes $2.8 million.  We could send them Tony Allen (who makes $2.5 million) to save them $300k, plus we could send along up to $3 million in cash.  $3.3 million in savings for a player who has no future in Indiana isn't a bad deal.

Because he isn't a good outside shooter and the Celtics already have 2 guys who can't shoot from the outside in their guard rotation (+ whoever plays behind Daniels).

Sure, that isn't a bad deal for Indiana if they can make it near the trade deadline, but why would the Celtics spend that kind of money for a guy that may end up filling no other role than the 3rd string PG one? As I've said, it's possible to acquire a player who is an upgrade (money+picks+expirings+Davis), but what I doubt if it's worth the price. Personally I'd rather use assets to address needs in the current rotation than in an hypothetical "if X gets injured" rotation.

[2short]

either watson is fine by me
I do not like alston
What is wrong with my kirk heinrich idea? him, daniels and sheed gives us 3 guys who can play 2 posistions each off the bench 

[Jon]

A few questions emerge from this discussion:

1) Of the "good options" how many would be happy playing the minuscule minutes that go to the "backup PG" on this team.  It's great to talk about Rafer Alston, but after the whole issue of "getting him" is resolved, how do we think he feels about less than 15 mpg? 

2) Assuming Rondo doesn't get hurt, how do we feel about an Alston over House scenario?  I clearly feel that Rafer would beat Eddie in a 1 on 1; however, if Alston's here and Daniels is healthy, it likely means close to zero minutes for Eddie.  Is no Eddie House a good thing for this team?

3) If Rondo goes down, is all this discussion moot anyway?  With the Big Three getting older, can we really win it all without an elite PG like Rondo?

I ask these questions sincerely.  I have some opinions, but I just don't know.   

[Roy Hobbs]

3) If Rondo goes down, is all this discussion moot anyway?  With the Big Three getting older, can we really win it all without an elite PG like Rondo?

I don't think we could win as currently constituted; House just isn't good enough to be a starter.  However, if we had a capable starting-caliber PG, this team could still compete.  Remember, Orlando made the playoffs last year with Alston.  Two years ago, we won with an arguably thinner bench, and a lesser Rondo and Perkins.  Losing Rondo would certainly make things an uphill climb, but I'd rather see the team try to fill the hole rather than throwing in the towel.

[PosImpos]

either watson is fine by me
I do not like alston
What is wrong with my kirk heinrich idea? him, daniels and sheed gives us 3 guys who can play 2 posistions each off the bench 

How could we get Kirk Hinrich?  I mean, Kirk Hinrich would be great, even if Rondo weren't injured...but how?

[BASS_THUMPER]

rondo goes down make tony allen point....