Jerryd Bayless???

[ssspence]

maybe I'm missing the boat on Bayless but why would we trade for someone that's not much of a shooter or passer?  We need someone that can do both.

I actually don’t think we need a great shooter, I’m more concerned with ballhandling, passing and defensive versatility. Bayless is an interesting player, but scoring is his game -- passing is not a strong suit. Also, Bayless and Eddie would struggle to share the backcourt defensively.

[ssspence]

maybe I'm missing the boat on Bayless but why would we trade for someone that's not much of a shooter or passer?  We need someone that can do both.

i have to echo stk's question. i have not seen this guy play at all,so if anyone knows more or has seen him play, please post some info here.



his stats are nothing to write home about for being the 11th pick in the draft last year.

min/game = 10 (down from 12 his rookie year)
pts/g = 5.9
assts/g = 1.0
rbs/g = 0.7

maybe he just cant get playing time on portland's team?

The fact that he can't, and that they went out and sign a poor fit (miller) instead should probably be a bit of a red flag.

[slamtheking]

maybe I'm missing the boat on Bayless but why would we trade for someone that's not much of a shooter or passer?  We need someone that can do both.

i have to echo stk's question. i have not seen this guy play at all,so if anyone knows more or has seen him play, please post some info here.



his stats are nothing to write home about for being the 11th pick in the draft last year.

min/game = 10 (down from 12 his rookie year)
pts/g = 5.9
assts/g = 1.0
rbs/g = 0.7

maybe he just cant get playing time on portland's team?

The fact that he can't, and that they went out and sign a poor fit (miller) instead should probably be a bit of a red flag.

OK, so evidently I'm not missing anything. 

I say pass on him.  there's other players out there that will fill in better in the backcourt.  if Danny brings in a guard, it has to be someone that can actually handle the ball well and play some defense.  a respectable shot would help as well.

[nickagneta]

What I would do with Portland is, if they want someone they could use as a C/PF, like Baby I would take advantage of that and their injuries at the wings by offering them Baby and wing players for Webster and Bayless.

[ssspence]

What I would do with Portland is, if they want someone they could use as a C/PF, like Baby I would take advantage of that and their injuries at the wings by offering them Baby and wing players for Webster and Bayless.

Baby and who? Your buddy TA?

[nickagneta]

What I would do with Portland is, if they want someone they could use as a C/PF, like Baby I would take advantage of that and their injuries at the wings by offering them Baby and wing players for Webster and Bayless.

Baby and who? Your buddy TA?

Not sure how Baby's BYC would effect a trade to Portland but since Portland has Rudy fernandez, Nicolas Batum, Greg Oden and Travis Outlaw all out until, at the earliest, February and most probably beyond for others, I would trade them a bunch of wings.

I'm not going to do all the math but maybe something like

Baby, Tony, Scal, Giddens for Webster, Bayless and Howard. Don't know if that fits in the restrictions but it's probably close.

[ssspence]

What I would do with Portland is, if they want someone they could use as a C/PF, like Baby I would take advantage of that and their injuries at the wings by offering them Baby and wing players for Webster and Bayless.

Baby and who? Your buddy TA?

Not sure how Baby's BYC would effect a trade to Portland but since Portland has Rudy fernandez, Nicolas Batum, Greg Oden and Travis Outlaw all out until, at the earliest, February and most probably beyond for others, I would trade them a bunch of wings.

I'm not going to do all the math but maybe something like

Baby, Tony, Scal, Giddens for Webster, Bayless and Howard. Don't know if that fits in the restrictions but it's probably close.

yeah but nick why would portland do such a trade? bayless has shown life lately and webster is a solid, functional nba player. we could sure use those two guys right now so if you can come up with something they'd want, i'm all ears.

[nickagneta]

What I would do with Portland is, if they want someone they could use as a C/PF, like Baby I would take advantage of that and their injuries at the wings by offering them Baby and wing players for Webster and Bayless.

Baby and who? Your buddy TA?

Not sure how Baby's BYC would effect a trade to Portland but since Portland has Rudy fernandez, Nicolas Batum, Greg Oden and Travis Outlaw all out until, at the earliest, February and most probably beyond for others, I would trade them a bunch of wings.

I'm not going to do all the math but maybe something like

Baby, Tony, Scal, Giddens for Webster, Bayless and Howard. Don't know if that fits in the restrictions but it's probably close.

yeah but nick why would portland do such a trade? bayless has shown life lately and webster is a solid, functional nba player. we could sure use those two guys right now so if you can come up with something they'd want, i'm all ears.

I think this trade would stem from the fact that they know Przybilla isn't a starting caliber center or if he is you need to have a good scoring big off the bench.

Right now the Blazers are running out Blake/Roy/Webster/Aldridge/Przybilla with a bench of Miller/Bayless/Cunningham/Howard. With all the long term injuries they have, that's basically their team until the beginning of February. That leaves them with

1 center
3 power forwards
1 small forward
1 shooting guard
3 point guards.

That has to change and that has to change with players that are not going to be long term fixes as they would prefer to bring in expiring contracts since Oden, Fernandez, and Batum are all long term players for them.

So Baby gives them a scoring big that can play either the center or power forward position and is a major upgrade over Pendergraph, Howard and Cunningham. Tony, Giddens and Scal give them players they can plug into the wing spots togive them production and some rest for Roy while they wait for Batum and Fernandez to heal up. Everyone except Baby is expiring so they can just let them expire and still have some flexibility in the free agent market next year.

[ssspence]

What I would do with Portland is, if they want someone they could use as a C/PF, like Baby I would take advantage of that and their injuries at the wings by offering them Baby and wing players for Webster and Bayless.

Baby and who? Your buddy TA?

Not sure how Baby's BYC would effect a trade to Portland but since Portland has Rudy fernandez, Nicolas Batum, Greg Oden and Travis Outlaw all out until, at the earliest, February and most probably beyond for others, I would trade them a bunch of wings.

I'm not going to do all the math but maybe something like

Baby, Tony, Scal, Giddens for Webster, Bayless and Howard. Don't know if that fits in the restrictions but it's probably close.

yeah but nick why would portland do such a trade? bayless has shown life lately and webster is a solid, functional nba player. we could sure use those two guys right now so if you can come up with something they'd want, i'm all ears.

I think this trade would stem from the fact that they know Przybilla isn't a starting caliber center or if he is you need to have a good scoring big off the bench.

Right now the Blazers are running out Blake/Roy/Webster/Aldridge/Przybilla with a bench of Miller/Bayless/Cunningham/Howard. With all the long term injuries they have, that's basically their team until the beginning of February. That leaves them with

1 center
3 power forwards
1 small forward
1 shooting guard
3 point guards.

That has to change and that has to change with players that are not going to be long term fixes as they would prefer to bring in expiring contracts since Oden, Fernandez, and Batum are all long term players for them.

So Baby gives them a scoring big that can play either the center or power forward position and is a major upgrade over Pendergraph, Howard and Cunningham. Tony, Giddens and Scal give them players they can plug into the wing spots togive them production and some rest for Roy while they wait for Batum and Fernandez to heal up. Everyone except Baby is expiring so they can just let them expire and still have some flexibility in the free agent market next year.

i don't doubt that Baby's a good fit there. But we need to find a way to offer more if we're going to get those two players in return. The Blazers aren't giving up two lottery picks for salary relief and Baby. If they want to dump salary it will be easy to drop Miller.

btw, a) I don't see Danny trading both Scal and Baby, and b) I think they often play better with Joel P on the floor (over Oden) anyway...

[nickagneta]

Defensively they do play much better with Przybilla on the floor. He is one of the better defensive and rebounding straight up centers in the league. He just doesn't have any offensive game whatsoever. With him in that starting lineup, the Blazers are pretty much playing 4 vs 5.

And as much as Webster is a lottery pick, he has never shown lottery pick production. Five years later he is still wildly inconsistent and shown he is better in small spurts coming off the bench, unlike Tony who has shown that given bigger minutes, he will produce. I think expecting lottery quality back for a lottery pick that hasn't shown lottery talent or production is an overused argument made by people. POB was a lottery pick, did the C's get lottery value talent in return for him last year when they traded him? Did Atlanta or Minnesota get lottery talent for Sheldon Williams when they tarded him?

I think that Davis would be the best player being dealt in that trade and think it very fair for both teams.

[ssspence]

Defensively they do play much better with Przybilla on the floor. He is one of the better defensive and rebounding straight up centers in the league. He just doesn't have any offensive game whatsoever. With him in that starting lineup, the Blazers are pretty much playing 4 vs 5.

And as much as Webster is a lottery pick, he has never shown lottery pick production. Five years later he is still wildly inconsistent and shown he is better in small spurts coming off the bench, unlike Tony who has shown that given bigger minutes, he will produce. I think expecting lottery quality back for a lottery pick that hasn't shown lottery talent or production is an overused argument made by people. POB was a lottery pick, did the C's get lottery value talent in return for him last year when they traded him? Did Atlanta or Minnesota get lottery talent for Sheldon Williams when they tarded him?

I think that Davis would be the best player being dealt in that trade and think it very fair for both teams.

Don’t get hung up on the lottery thing, don’t need to hear about every lottery pick who hasn’t worked out – the point is it’s hard to argue the Celtics get more talent in the deal. If you want to make it about fit, consider the following:

1)   You're making them worse / nonexistant at their thinnest position, the 3. They wouldn’t have a single natural 3 on the roster (no RF and TA don’t count);
2)   Bayless makes more sense considering their depth at the 1, but they’ll probably trade Miller so he may play a larger role for them soon considering Blake’s struggles. They’d likely want to weigh the market for him before trading Bayless;
3)   The Blazers won’t make the deal about money, because they have plenty. So Webster’s contract (a little much for a one dimensional role player) isn’t likely to be a motivating factor.

If you feel that Baby makes up for all of that, so be it. I doubt many NBA GMs would agree with you, including Pritchard. If he likes Baby so much, why didn’t he use his cap space to make him an offer last summer?

Sorry to be skeptical. Just find a way to make it more attractive – bring in a 3rd team that needs to shed salary or add picks.

[ssspence]

Nick, here’s a suggestion

Boston trades:

Baby (to Portland)
TA (to SAC)
Scal (to SAC)
Giddens (to SAC)


Boston receives:

Webster
Bayless
Outlaw
J Howard

Portland trades:

Webster (to Boston)
Bayless (to Boston)
Outlaw (to Boston)
J Howard (to Boston)

Portland receives:

Baby
Nocioni

Sacramento trades:

Nocioni (to Portland)

Sacramento receives:

Scal
TA
Giddens

Works on the Trade Checker as of December 17th. Outlaw (though talented -- and i'll admit i'd like to have him) is filler due to his foot injury and expiring contract.

[Mencius]

Nick, here’s a suggestion

Boston trades:

Baby (to Portland)
TA (to SAC)
Scal (to SAC)
Giddens (to SAC)


Boston receives:

Webster
Bayless
Outlaw
J Howard

Portland trades:

Webster (to Boston)
Bayless (to Boston)
Outlaw (to Boston)
J Howard (to Boston)

Portland receives:

Baby
Nocioni

Sacramento trades:

Nocioni (to Portland)

Sacramento receives:

Scal
TA
Giddens

Works on the Trade Checker as of December 17th. Outlaw (though talented -- and i'll admit i'd like to have him) is filler due to his foot injury and expiring contract.

Well done, Spence.  That's darned creative and seems like a win/win/win for all concerned, considering team needs.

[nickagneta]

Defensively they do play much better with Przybilla on the floor. He is one of the better defensive and rebounding straight up centers in the league. He just doesn't have any offensive game whatsoever. With him in that starting lineup, the Blazers are pretty much playing 4 vs 5.

And as much as Webster is a lottery pick, he has never shown lottery pick production. Five years later he is still wildly inconsistent and shown he is better in small spurts coming off the bench, unlike Tony who has shown that given bigger minutes, he will produce. I think expecting lottery quality back for a lottery pick that hasn't shown lottery talent or production is an overused argument made by people. POB was a lottery pick, did the C's get lottery value talent in return for him last year when they traded him? Did Atlanta or Minnesota get lottery talent for Sheldon Williams when they tarded him?

I think that Davis would be the best player being dealt in that trade and think it very fair for both teams.

Don’t get hung up on the lottery thing, don’t need to hear about every lottery pick who hasn’t worked out – the point is it’s hard to argue the Celtics get more talent in the deal. If you want to make it about fit, consider the following:

1)   You're making them worse / nonexistant at their thinnest position, the 3. They wouldn’t have a single natural 3 on the roster (no RF and TA don’t count);
2)   Bayless makes more sense considering their depth at the 1, but they’ll probably trade Miller so he may play a larger role for them soon considering Blake’s struggles. They’d likely want to weigh the market for him before trading Bayless;
3)   The Blazers won’t make the deal about money, because they have plenty. So Webster’s contract (a little much for a one dimensional role player) isn’t likely to be a motivating factor.

If you feel that Baby makes up for all of that, so be it. I doubt many NBA GMs would agree with you, including Pritchard. If he likes Baby so much, why didn’t he use his cap space to make him an offer last summer?

Sorry to be skeptical. Just find a way to make it more attractive – bring in a 3rd team that needs to shed salary or add picks.

Wait,you argue that somehow Pritchard is this smart GM that wouldn't do this trade because if he wanted Baby he would have signed him this off season, yet say that Pritchard would trade Andre Miller, a guy who he signed this off season for 3 years and $22 million. So he's stupid enough to give a guy a horrible contract at a position they had no need at and then trade him just months into his contract but too smart to trade for a guy who's signed to a reasonable contract at a position they do need help at?

Not getting this logic.

[nickagneta]

Nick, here’s a suggestion

Boston trades:

Baby (to Portland)
TA (to SAC)
Scal (to SAC)
Giddens (to SAC)


Boston receives:

Webster
Bayless
Outlaw
J Howard

Portland trades:

Webster (to Boston)
Bayless (to Boston)
Outlaw (to Boston)
J Howard (to Boston)

Portland receives:

Baby
Nocioni

Sacramento trades:

Nocioni (to Portland)

Sacramento receives:

Scal
TA
Giddens

Works on the Trade Checker as of December 17th. Outlaw (though talented -- and i'll admit i'd like to have him) is filler due to his foot injury and expiring contract.

Well done, Spence.  That's darned creative and seems like a win/win/win for all concerned, considering team needs.

I like it. A lot. We are giving up the same thing I said to give up yet getting Outlaw too.

Not sure Sactown is getting a very good return on the dollar for what they are giving up though,