Author Topic: 2nd Unit Needs Pushy PG  (Read 15827 times)

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Re: 2nd Unit Needs Pushy PG
« Reply #75 on: December 29, 2009, 09:39:22 AM »

Offline dasandruler

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Id prefer a legit point guard/ball handler who can score, and not all this ductape and spit with marquis/E.House.  I like marquis in a slasher role only.  I grow weary of: brick-House, scal, allen, giddens,williams, and walker -- Waste a space...considering docs approach which is ...idont trust my bench so rondo,ray,garnett and pierce dont rest---thats not a championship formula, not on  older legs.  come on folks....seriously. If moves can be made they better get moving, or else keep wishin on a star for lucky play off seating.

Re: 2nd Unit Needs Pushy PG
« Reply #76 on: December 29, 2009, 12:06:29 PM »

Offline fanofgreen

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The main problem is that the Celtics don't want to win these games bad enough. We don't need no freaking Acie Law to beat hapless, defenseless (in more ways than one) teams like the Clippers or Warriors. Are you KIDDING ME? We lost these games cause we didn't have this "natural backup PG" off the bench?

 The Celtics problem this year is that they don't have the killer instinct of yester year. We sure didn't need a backup PG OR a bench for that matter to start 27-2 last year, did we? How about that 12 game winning streak when we finally found ourselves again? Where was our backup PG then? This was without Marbury OR Moore btw. Even this year....we're STILL the best in the East without this backup PG you say we so desperately need. All season we've been without BBD, Daniels won't be back for a while, and Pierce didn't play against the Clippers or Warriors, but he played against the Sixers and we still lost to them anyways after having a 10+ point lead.

Your short term memory is showing in this regard and it's not even close, but the bottom line is that at best, we squeak through the games we lost with an Acie Law running the 2nd unit, and hey, it'd be fine with me, so I won't argue with you if it's fine for you.

The thing is, though, I can only say that because despite our pathetic effort against the Sixers, Clippers, and Warriors, we lost all of them by a combined 7 points; 1, 2, and 4 respectively. And we had a 10+ point lead against ALL OF THEM.

So in the end, until WE CARE ENOUGH TO DO SO, we will not beat down hapless teams like the Warriors, Clippers, or Sixers like we are supposed to even with a "true blue backup PG". PERIOD.

If this 2nd unit PG can't give us this killer instinct, then I'm not sure he's helpful. Otherwise, I feel like he's already on the way when the time is right, regardless. But that's all. If Rondo himself alongside Ray (since they both played 40+ minutes in the last two games) can't help the 2nd unit flow like it should in our state of lackadaisical, what's a backup PG who's clearly inferior to Rondo gonna do when we're not willing to put forth the effort to win games we easily should?

...I rest my case.

Yes, Acie Law is inferior to Rondo, hence, him being a 2nd unit point guard and not a starter. Like I said, I'm not trying to say we need Acie Law to come in a start building the franchise around him.

I also agree with the lack of hunger, and the passive playing over the last few weeks. But you cant teach a killer instinct, you cant force that in somebody, and you can bring over a player to a team and automatically instill that hunger, that doesn't work like that, and thats not what i'm trying to do, by saying bring Acie Law on the team.

Yes the 27-2 run and the other streaks that took place, but just in case your short term memory has escaped, this is the 2009-2010 season not 08 or 09. And if you read my quote, I said,"I've been saying for the longest to trade for Law" so i'm not talking about the last few games specifically, because as you said, in which I agree, its because they didn't have that killer instinct.
What I'm talking about, is since the offseason,and right before the season started I looked at our roster, and saw we could use a point guard (backup).

I dont understand how a teams options at backup point guard, are 3 players, who arent point guards! With Acie Law, all i'm concerned with is that he is a natural point guard, who can bring the ball up the court easily with slight defensive pressure.

Last time i checked, Eddie House always plays his best ball, when he is out on the floor with another point guard (rondo, marbury,cassell). I dont want Eddie bringing the ball up the court at all, because not only does he struggle handling the ball with pressure, but it takes away one of the offensive threats in the offense.

And Marquis can bring the ball up the court, but he is not a point guard. But Marquis is best utilized, offensively not as a PG, but as a SF who can come off of down screens and curl into the paint. He is way better at posting up than he is at point guard.

So my concern is not necessarily,  how we play against other teams,  but how WE are operating. Doc all season has been talking about becoming a 48- minute team. For 10-13 min. when the starters arent in, things become stagnant, There's no flow, thats when most teams end up making a run.

All I'm saying is that having a natural PG, will put other players, in positions where they are most comfortable and successful. (Eddie House off the ball, coming off screens) do you agree? (Marquis Daniels, curling off down screens {i live in IN so I've seen plenty of Pacers games where Marquis recieved a down screen and curled into the lane, he is a magician when it comes to curling off screens, posting up smaller wings)Do you agree?

I'm more concerend about getting eddie and Marquis utilizing their best strengths. EHouse did not get drafted because he could be a point guard, Marquis did not get drafted in this league b/c of his pg skills. Acie Law was drafted in this league because of his abilitiy to play the PG. So why are we putting players in areas other than where their strengths are?

If you really think about it, having Eddie House and Tony Allen and Marquis Daniels, play point guard is equivalent to having Rajon Rondo playing SG.

I just want a natural pg for the 2nd unit, who can get eddie and marquis off the ball. And when i looked at the different scenario's as far as who we have to trade for, Acie Law was I saw as an equal value trade, plus Law expires after this season. Scal/Tony/JR, etc. for Acie Law. that is why I say Acie Law. Not because Acie Law is the next great PG. Also Acie Law has the size, to play alongside EHouse.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2009, 12:14:00 PM by fanofgreen »

Re: 2nd Unit Needs Pushy PG
« Reply #77 on: December 29, 2009, 12:10:32 PM »

Offline fanofgreen

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Id prefer a legit point guard/ball handler who can score, and not all this ductape and spit with marquis/E.House.  I like marquis in a slasher role only.  I grow weary of: brick-House, scal, allen, giddens,williams, and walker -- Waste a space...considering docs approach which is ...idont trust my bench so rondo,ray,garnett and pierce dont rest---thats not a championship formula, not on  older legs.  come on folks....seriously. If moves can be made they better get moving, or else keep wishin on a star for lucky play off seating.

Thank you!

Having Marquis/Eddie run the point, is equivalent to having Rondo play the SG spot of ray and ehouse, and telling him to run off of all of those screens, and shoot the long2 or 3-pointer.

Re: 2nd Unit Needs Pushy PG
« Reply #78 on: December 29, 2009, 12:56:23 PM »

Offline Tai

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The main problem is that the Celtics don't want to win these games bad enough. We don't need no freaking Acie Law to beat hapless, defenseless (in more ways than one) teams like the Clippers or Warriors. Are you KIDDING ME? We lost these games cause we didn't have this "natural backup PG" off the bench?

 The Celtics problem this year is that they don't have the killer instinct of yester year. We sure didn't need a backup PG OR a bench for that matter to start 27-2 last year, did we? How about that 12 game winning streak when we finally found ourselves again? Where was our backup PG then? This was without Marbury OR Moore btw. Even this year....we're STILL the best in the East without this backup PG you say we so desperately need. All season we've been without BBD, Daniels won't be back for a while, and Pierce didn't play against the Clippers or Warriors, but he played against the Sixers and we still lost to them anyways after having a 10+ point lead.

Your short term memory is showing in this regard and it's not even close, but the bottom line is that at best, we squeak through the games we lost with an Acie Law running the 2nd unit, and hey, it'd be fine with me, so I won't argue with you if it's fine for you.

The thing is, though, I can only say that because despite our pathetic effort against the Sixers, Clippers, and Warriors, we lost all of them by a combined 7 points; 1, 2, and 4 respectively. And we had a 10+ point lead against ALL OF THEM.

So in the end, until WE CARE ENOUGH TO DO SO, we will not beat down hapless teams like the Warriors, Clippers, or Sixers like we are supposed to even with a "true blue backup PG". PERIOD.

If this 2nd unit PG can't give us this killer instinct, then I'm not sure he's helpful. Otherwise, I feel like he's already on the way when the time is right, regardless. But that's all. If Rondo himself alongside Ray (since they both played 40+ minutes in the last two games) can't help the 2nd unit flow like it should in our state of lackadaisical, what's a backup PG who's clearly inferior to Rondo gonna do when we're not willing to put forth the effort to win games we easily should?

...I rest my case.

Yes, Acie Law is inferior to Rondo, hence, him being a 2nd unit point guard and not a starter. Like I said, I'm not trying to say we need Acie Law to come in a start building the franchise around him.

I also agree with the lack of hunger, and the passive playing over the last few weeks. But you cant teach a killer instinct, you cant force that in somebody, and you can bring over a player to a team and automatically instill that hunger, that doesn't work like that, and thats not what i'm trying to do, by saying bring Acie Law on the team.

Yes the 27-2 run and the other streaks that took place, but just in case your short term memory has escaped, this is the 2009-2010 season not 08 or 09. And if you read my quote, I said,"I've been saying for the longest to trade for Law" so i'm not talking about the last few games specifically, because as you said, in which I agree, its because they didn't have that killer instinct.
What I'm talking about, is since the offseason,and right before the season started I looked at our roster, and saw we could use a point guard (backup).

I dont understand how a teams options at backup point guard, are 3 players, who arent point guards! With Acie Law, all i'm concerned with is that he is a natural point guard, who can bring the ball up the court easily with slight defensive pressure.

Last time i checked, Eddie House always plays his best ball, when he is out on the floor with another point guard (rondo, marbury,cassell). I dont want Eddie bringing the ball up the court at all, because not only does he struggle handling the ball with pressure, but it takes away one of the offensive threats in the offense.

And Marquis can bring the ball up the court, but he is not a point guard. But Marquis is best utilized, offensively not as a PG, but as a SF who can come off of down screens and curl into the paint. He is way better at posting up than he is at point guard.

So my concern is not necessarily,  how we play against other teams,  but how WE are operating. Doc all season has been talking about becoming a 48- minute team. For 10-13 min. when the starters arent in, things become stagnant, There's no flow, thats when most teams end up making a run.

All I'm saying is that having a natural PG, will put other players, in positions where they are most comfortable and successful. (Eddie House off the ball, coming off screens) do you agree? (Marquis Daniels, curling off down screens {i live in IN so I've seen plenty of Pacers games where Marquis recieved a down screen and curled into the lane, he is a magician when it comes to curling off screens, posting up smaller wings)Do you agree?

I'm more concerend about getting eddie and Marquis utilizing their best strengths. EHouse did not get drafted because he could be a point guard, Marquis did not get drafted in this league b/c of his pg skills. Acie Law was drafted in this league because of his abilitiy to play the PG. So why are we putting players in areas other than where their strengths are?

If you really think about it, having Eddie House and Tony Allen and Marquis Daniels, play point guard is equivalent to having Rajon Rondo playing SG.

I just want a natural pg for the 2nd unit, who can get eddie and marquis off the ball. And when i looked at the different scenario's as far as who we have to trade for, Acie Law was I saw as an equal value trade, plus Law expires after this season. Scal/Tony/JR, etc. for Acie Law. that is why I say Acie Law. Not because Acie Law is the next great PG. Also Acie Law has the size, to play alongside EHouse.

Well I already said that this backup PG is probably coming when the time is right, anyways. I can only agree with putting in a backup PG so Rondo can get a breather, but I figure Danny would rather wait until Pierce comes back (which WILL be on Jan 2nd) to have that happen. Oh well.

Anyways, Acie Law is only averaging an assist per game. Is he really going to do anything? Have you actually seen him play or do you just want him because he has PG next to his name and he's "available"?

Re: 2nd Unit Needs Pushy PG
« Reply #79 on: December 29, 2009, 01:20:15 PM »

Offline footey

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I wish Doc would give Lester Hudson a decent shot to run the second unit at PG.

Re: 2nd Unit Needs Pushy PG
« Reply #80 on: December 29, 2009, 02:52:49 PM »

Offline nesnfsn

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Since Glen Davis will be out again, is it finally time to put Lobster Hudson on the B&M (Boston from Maine) Express so that he can get some gametime experience as an NBA PG?

My thoughts continue to be that Doc should at least give the kid (not a rookie by age, only by experience level) a chance with the second unit to see what he has.

I had started this entire thread seeking input from others as to whether they would like to see Doc give this rook some playing time with the 2nd unit, because it is clear that they have no flow nor rhythm with Eddie and Tony (or even Ray in place of Tony) running the PG position. He may not be a natural PG, but at least it appears from the Red Claws games that Hudson can dribble the ball (without TA's double-dribble curse or Ray's losing control of the ball curse), and sure as heck can outplay House as far as running the point. Also, with time, he appears able to not only shoot, but to defend.

Has anyone's thoughts changed since my initial post on this issue on December 4th, about giving this rookie some time at PG with the second unit????

Re: 2nd Unit Needs Pushy PG
« Reply #81 on: December 29, 2009, 03:10:05 PM »

Offline Chris

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Since Glen Davis will be out again, is it finally time to put Lobster Hudson on the B&M (Boston from Maine) Express so that he can get some gametime experience as an NBA PG?

My thoughts continue to be that Doc should at least give the kid (not a rookie by age, only by experience level) a chance with the second unit to see what he has.

I had started this entire thread seeking input from others as to whether they would like to see Doc give this rook some playing time with the 2nd unit, because it is clear that they have no flow nor rhythm with Eddie and Tony (or even Ray in place of Tony) running the PG position. He may not be a natural PG, but at least it appears from the Red Claws games that Hudson can dribble the ball (without TA's double-dribble curse or Ray's losing control of the ball curse), and sure as heck can outplay House as far as running the point. Also, with time, he appears able to not only shoot, but to defend.

Has anyone's thoughts changed since my initial post on this issue on December 4th, about giving this rookie some time at PG with the second unit????

I personally think Hudson is more prepared to give this time minutes right now than Walker and Giddens, and was surprised when they sent him back down to the D-league.  Particularly with Rondo's latest injury, I think they should definitely try to bring him back up, at least as extra depth on the perimeter.

Re: 2nd Unit Needs Pushy PG
« Reply #82 on: December 29, 2009, 05:30:05 PM »

Offline fanofgreen

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The main problem is that the Celtics don't want to win these games bad enough. We don't need no freaking Acie Law to beat hapless, defenseless (in more ways than one) teams like the Clippers or Warriors. Are you KIDDING ME? We lost these games cause we didn't have this "natural backup PG" off the bench?

 The Celtics problem this year is that they don't have the killer instinct of yester year. We sure didn't need a backup PG OR a bench for that matter to start 27-2 last year, did we? How about that 12 game winning streak when we finally found ourselves again? Where was our backup PG then? This was without Marbury OR Moore btw. Even this year....we're STILL the best in the East without this backup PG you say we so desperately need. All season we've been without BBD, Daniels won't be back for a while, and Pierce didn't play against the Clippers or Warriors, but he played against the Sixers and we still lost to them anyways after having a 10+ point lead.

Your short term memory is showing in this regard and it's not even close, but the bottom line is that at best, we squeak through the games we lost with an Acie Law running the 2nd unit, and hey, it'd be fine with me, so I won't argue with you if it's fine for you.

The thing is, though, I can only say that because despite our pathetic effort against the Sixers, Clippers, and Warriors, we lost all of them by a combined 7 points; 1, 2, and 4 respectively. And we had a 10+ point lead against ALL OF THEM.

So in the end, until WE CARE ENOUGH TO DO SO, we will not beat down hapless teams like the Warriors, Clippers, or Sixers like we are supposed to even with a "true blue backup PG". PERIOD.

If this 2nd unit PG can't give us this killer instinct, then I'm not sure he's helpful. Otherwise, I feel like he's already on the way when the time is right, regardless. But that's all. If Rondo himself alongside Ray (since they both played 40+ minutes in the last two games) can't help the 2nd unit flow like it should in our state of lackadaisical, what's a backup PG who's clearly inferior to Rondo gonna do when we're not willing to put forth the effort to win games we easily should?

...I rest my case.

Yes, Acie Law is inferior to Rondo, hence, him being a 2nd unit point guard and not a starter. Like I said, I'm not trying to say we need Acie Law to come in a start building the franchise around him.

I also agree with the lack of hunger, and the passive playing over the last few weeks. But you cant teach a killer instinct, you cant force that in somebody, and you can bring over a player to a team and automatically instill that hunger, that doesn't work like that, and thats not what i'm trying to do, by saying bring Acie Law on the team.

Yes the 27-2 run and the other streaks that took place, but just in case your short term memory has escaped, this is the 2009-2010 season not 08 or 09. And if you read my quote, I said,"I've been saying for the longest to trade for Law" so i'm not talking about the last few games specifically, because as you said, in which I agree, its because they didn't have that killer instinct.
What I'm talking about, is since the offseason,and right before the season started I looked at our roster, and saw we could use a point guard (backup).

I dont understand how a teams options at backup point guard, are 3 players, who arent point guards! With Acie Law, all i'm concerned with is that he is a natural point guard, who can bring the ball up the court easily with slight defensive pressure.

Last time i checked, Eddie House always plays his best ball, when he is out on the floor with another point guard (rondo, marbury,cassell). I dont want Eddie bringing the ball up the court at all, because not only does he struggle handling the ball with pressure, but it takes away one of the offensive threats in the offense.

And Marquis can bring the ball up the court, but he is not a point guard. But Marquis is best utilized, offensively not as a PG, but as a SF who can come off of down screens and curl into the paint. He is way better at posting up than he is at point guard.

So my concern is not necessarily,  how we play against other teams,  but how WE are operating. Doc all season has been talking about becoming a 48- minute team. For 10-13 min. when the starters arent in, things become stagnant, There's no flow, thats when most teams end up making a run.

All I'm saying is that having a natural PG, will put other players, in positions where they are most comfortable and successful. (Eddie House off the ball, coming off screens) do you agree? (Marquis Daniels, curling off down screens {i live in IN so I've seen plenty of Pacers games where Marquis recieved a down screen and curled into the lane, he is a magician when it comes to curling off screens, posting up smaller wings)Do you agree?

I'm more concerend about getting eddie and Marquis utilizing their best strengths. EHouse did not get drafted because he could be a point guard, Marquis did not get drafted in this league b/c of his pg skills. Acie Law was drafted in this league because of his abilitiy to play the PG. So why are we putting players in areas other than where their strengths are?

If you really think about it, having Eddie House and Tony Allen and Marquis Daniels, play point guard is equivalent to having Rajon Rondo playing SG.

I just want a natural pg for the 2nd unit, who can get eddie and marquis off the ball. And when i looked at the different scenario's as far as who we have to trade for, Acie Law was I saw as an equal value trade, plus Law expires after this season. Scal/Tony/JR, etc. for Acie Law. that is why I say Acie Law. Not because Acie Law is the next great PG. Also Acie Law has the size, to play alongside EHouse.

Well I already said that this backup PG is probably coming when the time is right, anyways. I can only agree with putting in a backup PG so Rondo can get a breather, but I figure Danny would rather wait until Pierce comes back (which WILL be on Jan 2nd) to have that happen. Oh well.

Anyways, Acie Law is only averaging an assist per game. Is he really going to do anything? Have you actually seen him play or do you just want him because he has PG next to his name and he's "available"?

I'm not looking at stats,I'm looking for a backup point guard, not a stat stuffer. He's only averaging an assist per game, because he's barely played this year. And he is now playing for Larry Brown, and Coach Brown is known for being very picky and stingy on what type of point guards he wants running his offense, he's always been that way, and there is nothing wrong with that.

And yes, I've seen him play before, not this season, but a few times last season, and his rookie season. And yes you hit it right on the money, I also want him because he has a PG next to his name, and the fact that he is available, makes things more attractive as well.

Is he really going to do anything you ask? Well i thought you answered it, but he will give rondo a breather, like you said. And in addition to giving rondo a breather, he can do something for us, like being a PG and bringing the ball up the floor against pressure, and help us get into our offense quicker, for the second unit. He'll take Eddie off the ball, and TA off the ball.Thats what he can do, I wouldn't expect him to be a 6th man candidate, maybe I'm giving you the wrong impression on that. I just want a natural point guard, wether he avg's 1 assist, or 32 assists, I just want a natural pg off the bench.

Re: 2nd Unit Needs Pushy PG
« Reply #83 on: December 29, 2009, 07:39:08 PM »

Offline Potapenko Boxout

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TYRONN LUE! COME ON THIS SHOULDN'T EVEN BE A DISCUSSION