Don't underestimate the impact of losing Leon Powe, and TA and BBD being injured

[nickagneta]

We really really really really really really should have kept powe. Even if he didnt get back to his full self like last year, he would have helped tremendously when he would come back late in the year.

What exactly does Leon bring that Sheldon Williams hasn't replaced?

[Chris]

We really really really really really really should have kept powe. Even if he didnt get back to his full self like last year, he would have helped tremendously when he would come back late in the year.

The problem is, they didn't have a roster space for him. 

The other problem is he supposedly was offended when the C's did not pick up his option (which would have been dumb for them to pick up), and likely would not have given the C's the second year option, which is crucial to making it worth paying for his rehab.

[ben]

"Baby will make all our bigs better rebounders by throwing other bigs around down there and eating up space. And sorry, Sheldon Williams is nice and has done a good job and I like him but he is a wall flower emotionally compared to Big Baby. Bib Baby is the closest thing to a Leon Powe mentality we have coming off our bench once he gets healthy. He plays with emotion, we can use all we cang et of that quality right now"

How can you compare Baby and Williams emotionally without mentioning Baby literally crying on the bench during a regular season game, and also noting Sheldon Williams has NEVER done such a thing.  

[Chris]

"Baby will make all our bigs better rebounders by throwing other bigs around down there and eating up space. And sorry, Sheldon Williams is nice and has done a good job and I like him but he is a wall flower emotionally compared to Big Baby. Bib Baby is the closest thing to a Leon Powe mentality we have coming off our bench once he gets healthy. He plays with emotion, we can use all we cang et of that quality right now"

How can you compare Baby and Williams emotionally without mentioning Baby literally crying on the bench during a regular season game, and also noting Sheldon Williams has NEVER done such a thing.  

But in a lot of ways, Baby crying demonstrated what does set him apart.  He is an incredibly emotional guy who plays with his heart on his sleeve.  It can hurt him at times, but it also can energize himself, and the team.

[Jay G]

We really really really really really really should have kept powe. Even if he didnt get back to his full self like last year, he would have helped tremendously when he would come back late in the year.

What exactly does Leon bring that Sheldon Williams hasn't replaced?

Intensity, smarter basketball, great post play, drew way more offensive fouls, great chemistry. just to name a few things. but im not saying sheldon's not good, i like sheldon, but i think, even with the circumstances now, powe would have been better if we picked up his option.

[nickagneta]

I think the whole "playing with emotion" thing is seriously over rated. Example? How good do you think this team would be?

Center: Robert Parish
Power Forward: Tim Duncan
Small Forward: Julius Erving
Shooting Guard: George Gervin
Point Guard: Jason Kidd

Are any of these players huge emotionally displaying players? Do they do or did they do all sorts of shouting and histrionics? Would this team, with a group of emotionally reserved players that act "cool and reserved" not dominate just about any team you could throw at them?

[Chris]

I think the whole "playing with emotion" thing is seriously over rated. Example? How good do you think this team would be?

Center: Robert Parish
Power Forward: Tim Duncan
Small Forward: Julius Erving
Shooting Guard: George Gervin
Point Guard: Jason Kidd

Are any of these players huge emotionally displaying players? Do they do or did they do all sorts of shouting and histrionics? Would this team, with a group of emotionally reserved players that act "cool and reserved" not dominate just about any team you could throw at them?

Well, no one said you NEED someone to be incredibly emotional.  But it absolutely is part of the package, that you need to take into account.  And it can be good or bad, as our own Rasheed Wallace demonstrates every night.  His intensity is part of what makes him the player he is...but it also is part of what holds him back.

[BASS_THUMPER]

powe pimpin worked hard..the time he had on the floor was not givin to him...he pimped them from doc..injuries happen and when they do do we throw the hard workers away?..

pimpin is in cleveland now and when he get back healthy and we play them i will be rootin for powe pimpin..jus like  i did when battie was playin us in the playoffs..i think we let battie go cause of his knee problems..how we gonna get solid when we toss the important parts.

[Jay G]

I think the whole "playing with emotion" thing is seriously over rated. Example? How good do you think this team would be?

Center: Robert Parish
Power Forward: Tim Duncan
Small Forward: Julius Erving
Shooting Guard: George Gervin
Point Guard: Jason Kidd

Are any of these players huge emotionally displaying players? Do they do or did they do all sorts of shouting and histrionics? Would this team, with a group of emotionally reserved players that act "cool and reserved" not dominate just about any team you could throw at them?

Well, no one said you NEED someone to be incredibly emotional.  But it absolutely is part of the package, that you need to take into account.  And it can be good or bad, as our own Rasheed Wallace demonstrates every night.  His intensity is part of what makes him the player he is...but it also is part of what holds him back.

Exactly man. It's part of powes game. no one said you need intensity, but it helps at times. you can't possibly disagree with that.

[nickagneta]

We really really really really really really should have kept powe. Even if he didnt get back to his full self like last year, he would have helped tremendously when he would come back late in the year.

What exactly does Leon bring that Sheldon Williams hasn't replaced?

Intensity, smarter basketball, great post play, drew way more offensive fouls, great chemistry. just to name a few things. but im not saying sheldon's not good, i like sheldon, but i think, even with the circumstances now, powe would have been better if we picked up his option.

Intensity? Williams plays extremely intense and always gives 110%. He simply doesn't wear his emotions on his sleeve and have lots of different facial expressions. But he is very intense.

Smarter basketball? Williams is a Dukie and his BBIQ is off the charts. I don't think he's made one dumb move in his entire time here.

Great post play? Williams post play hasn't been great? He leads the team in offensive rebounds, rebounds, free throws attempted and free throws made per minute. He has a 53% FG% and 84% FT%. That's pretty impressive post play on a team with Perk, KG and Rasheed Wallace.

Great chemistry? You don't think that Williams has seemed to fit in seamlessly? Only more playing time will increase his familiarity with his team mates.

Drawing offensive fouls? Well, you got me there. He doesn't flop like a live fish on a pier like Powe did. That that there is anything wrong with that, so long as we are getting the calls.

And again, signing Powe would not have changed the fact that we still would have had to have gotten Williams because Powe would not be available this year. The Leon that shows up in Cleveland very late in this year will not be the Leon anyone here is waxing nostalgically over.

[Jay G]

We really really really really really really should have kept powe. Even if he didnt get back to his full self like last year, he would have helped tremendously when he would come back late in the year.

What exactly does Leon bring that Sheldon Williams hasn't replaced?

Intensity, smarter basketball, great post play, drew way more offensive fouls, great chemistry. just to name a few things. but im not saying sheldon's not good, i like sheldon, but i think, even with the circumstances now, powe would have been better if we picked up his option.

Intensity? Williams plays extremely intense and always gives 110%. He simply doesn't wear his emotions on his sleeve and have lots of different facial expressions. But he is very intense.

Smarter basketball? Williams is a Dukie and his BBIQ is off the charts. I don't think he's made one dumb move in his entire time here.

Great post play? Williams post play hasn't been great? He leads the team in offensive rebounds, rebounds, free throws attempted and free throws made per minute. He has a 53% FG% and 84% FT%. That's pretty impressive post play on a team with Perk, KG and Rasheed Wallace.

Great chemistry? You don't think that Williams has seemed to fit in seamlessly? Only more playing time will increase his familiarity with his team mates.

Drawing offensive fouls? Well, you got me there. He doesn't flop like a live fish on a pier like Powe did. That that there is anything wrong with that, so long as we are getting the calls.

And again, signing Powe would not have changed the fact that we still would have had to have gotten Williams because Powe would not be available this year. The Leon that shows up in Cleveland very late in this year will not be the Leon anyone here is waxing nostalgically over.

ok. you win. good for you.

[nickagneta]

I think the whole "playing with emotion" thing is seriously over rated. Example? How good do you think this team would be?

Center: Robert Parish
Power Forward: Tim Duncan
Small Forward: Julius Erving
Shooting Guard: George Gervin
Point Guard: Jason Kidd

Are any of these players huge emotionally displaying players? Do they do or did they do all sorts of shouting and histrionics? Would this team, with a group of emotionally reserved players that act "cool and reserved" not dominate just about any team you could throw at them?

Well, no one said you NEED someone to be incredibly emotional.  But it absolutely is part of the package, that you need to take into account.  And it can be good or bad, as our own Rasheed Wallace demonstrates every night.  His intensity is part of what makes him the player he is...but it also is part of what holds him back.

Exactly man. It's part of powes game. no one said you need intensity, but it helps at times. you can't possibly disagree with that.

I'm not disagreeing with it I am just saying it is not necessary. The entire argument that Scooby is making is we need Powe, Baby and Tony for younger legs and emotional lifts. I'm saying you don't need players that play with emotions on their sleeves. We have enough already and just because Sheldon and Marquis are reserved players does not make them lesser players as the OP seems to be implying.

[Chris]

I think the whole "playing with emotion" thing is seriously over rated. Example? How good do you think this team would be?

Center: Robert Parish
Power Forward: Tim Duncan
Small Forward: Julius Erving
Shooting Guard: George Gervin
Point Guard: Jason Kidd

Are any of these players huge emotionally displaying players? Do they do or did they do all sorts of shouting and histrionics? Would this team, with a group of emotionally reserved players that act "cool and reserved" not dominate just about any team you could throw at them?

Well, no one said you NEED someone to be incredibly emotional.  But it absolutely is part of the package, that you need to take into account.  And it can be good or bad, as our own Rasheed Wallace demonstrates every night.  His intensity is part of what makes him the player he is...but it also is part of what holds him back.

Exactly man. It's part of powes game. no one said you need intensity, but it helps at times. you can't possibly disagree with that.

Oh, I would go as far as saying that if not for his intensity, Leon Powe would not be an NBA player.  

Of course, I also think without his explosiveness and athleticism, Powe is not an NBA player...which is the single biggest reason I would not have signed him for this season without at least another guaranteed year.  Even if he does come back this year, the chance of him having any semblance of his old explosiveness is very slim.  

This is the problem with a lot of these 8th-12th men types.  The line between quality rotation player and NBDL is so thin, that an injury like this can be catestrophic.  While it might not be career ending, he is likely not going to be good enough to come back, unless he returns to 100%.

[Chris]

I think the whole "playing with emotion" thing is seriously over rated. Example? How good do you think this team would be?

Center: Robert Parish
Power Forward: Tim Duncan
Small Forward: Julius Erving
Shooting Guard: George Gervin
Point Guard: Jason Kidd

Are any of these players huge emotionally displaying players? Do they do or did they do all sorts of shouting and histrionics? Would this team, with a group of emotionally reserved players that act "cool and reserved" not dominate just about any team you could throw at them?

Well, no one said you NEED someone to be incredibly emotional.  But it absolutely is part of the package, that you need to take into account.  And it can be good or bad, as our own Rasheed Wallace demonstrates every night.  His intensity is part of what makes him the player he is...but it also is part of what holds him back.

Exactly man. It's part of powes game. no one said you need intensity, but it helps at times. you can't possibly disagree with that.

I'm not disagreeing with it I am just saying it is not necessary. The entire argument that Scooby is making is we need Powe, Baby and Tony for younger legs and emotional lifts. I'm saying you don't need players that play with emotions on their sleeves. We have enough already and just because Sheldon and Marquis are reserved players does not make them lesser players as the OP seems to be implying.

This is a good point. 

Ultimately, I think the only reason the C's are missing those guys is because of their young(er) legs, and athleticism. 

Even Davis is a very good athlete for his size, and even though he does not play above the rim, he moves a lot more, and makes defenses work a lot more than guys like Wallace (who stands around a lot), and Williams (who just isn't a great offensive player).

More than anything though, what the C's need is Rajon Rondo to continue to play with speed, because he is the one with the ability to make this team keep up with the younger teams in the league.

[kozlodoev]

We need someone to close the lane and take some charges. This is not happening and the result is tons of uncontested layups by the opposition.

Last season we had 2 big men doing this on a consistent basis: Powe and Davis. This season we have about none. That's it.