Our offense is Pierce-centric

[Drucci]

I noticed it this season but was really struck by it last night. Our defense was good against Orlando but our offense was a mess, except for spurts. Did you notice how the whole offense relied on Pierce in the third quarter? And it has been the case for many games : give the ball to Pierce, let him dribble, if he makes a pass, give him the ball back, and see what he does.

Don't get me wrong : I think Pierce is a great playmaker and the only player on this team who can really create his shot and scoring opportunities. I'm always impressed with the multiples ways thanks to which he scores. But this is getting disproportional, the offense basically relies on him because Rondo is just making passes to the open guy, and waiting for something to happen. I think it's really bad for ball movement and that it will burn Pierce really quickly fatigue wise if Doc doesn't adjust the offensive schemes.

Also, I have the feeling that Paul doesn't make passes when it's obvious he should. And that's partly because he knows he has the responsibility of scoring on almost every possession. Many times we can see him dribbling, seeing Ray or another shooter wide open in the corner but he doesn't make the pass and keeps dribbling on the other side.

So I think Doc should really focus on the offense. Sure, our defense sucks overall, but we came back to it against Orlando (except for the 1st quarter). And it's our offense who killed us, with too many bad shots or turnovers because of a lack of ball movement, partly due to the fact that the team is often waiting for Pierce to make something happen.

Also, I think Ray should get more touches. He isn't enough involved in the offense.

What do you think?

[greenhead85]

Worse than this Pierce-centric is the existence of a No-JumpShot Rondo. For as long that Rondo can't perform better in the jump shooting department the team will remain very predictable offensively.

[Who]

If Matt Barnes is on the floor there's only one thing I want to see the Celtics do and that's call isolation plays for Pierce because Barnes doesn't have a hope in hell of being able to cover Pierce.

Gotta punish matchup advantages like that. I loved seeing the C's got to Pierce in the third quarter.

[Who]

Also, it's hard for the Celtics do a lot else when they need a basket offensively.

Currently, Garnett is taking more of a secondary role offensively than ever before. Rondo isn't being assertive enough as a scorer. Ray Allen has declined hugely as a go-to scorer since arriving in Boston and is best used as a complementary weapon. And then there's Sheed who won't go into the post. That's Boston four next best go-to options scoring wise and they're not offering that type of direct weapon here in the early going of the season.

That creates a lack of a post game + a lack of dribble penetration. Allowing the opposing defense to keep the ball in front of them and force contested jumpers. Except when Paul Pierce attacks.

As the weeks move on, the C's will need KG and Rondo to become assertive offensively. That's the only way the offense will get it's versatility back.

[Roy Hobbs]

If Rondo isn't getting to the hoop and creating like he should, we don't have many options other than asking Pierce to create, unfortunately enough.  Rondo needs to be the guy to break down the defense, and he's not doing it.  The fact that Rondo's man can sag off him completely is making things more difficult for not only Rondo, but Pierce and Ray, as well.

If Rondo had even a respectable jumpshot, or wasn't completely afraid of going to the free throw line, it would open up things a lot more for the rest of the offense, and the ball would be in Paul's hands less.

That probably sounds unfair to Rondo, but I really do think our offense begins with him. 

[vinnie]

If Rondo isn't getting to the hoop and creating like he should, we don't have many options other than asking Pierce to create, unfortunately enough.  Rondo needs to be the guy to break down the defense, and he's not doing it.  The fact that Rondo's man can sag off him completely is making things more difficult for not only Rondo, but Pierce and Ray, as well.

If Rondo had even a respectable jumpshot, or wasn't completely afraid of going to the free throw line, it would open up things a lot more for the rest of the offense, and the ball would be in Paul's hands less.

That probably sounds unfair to Rondo, but I really do think our offense begins with him. 

It is maddening to watch opposing team's point guards playing so far off of Rondo. A couple of times last night, Jayson Williams was in another county when playing defense on Rondo. The bottom line is that until Rondo takes more jump shots and makes more jump shots, this problem is only going to get bigger. Rondo is the guy that makes this offense go, so if he can't get to the rim and then dish, then a lot of other things are not going to happen.

[pearljammer10]

Its not just Pierce - centric...Its all iso....Rondo bring up the ball, pass it to someone, whoever gets it dribbles and dribbles then hoists a jumper...No slashing, no movement, no off ball picks, nothing but iso...This team has all jump shooters and no one is going to the basket. With Perk being our only legit low post threat we are in trouble. Too many jump shots and too much selfish basketball.

[wdleehi]

The Celtics have three really effective offensive attacks.

1)  Pierce/KG pick and roll.  When both have their shot working, very hard to stop.  (not the case last night)

2)  Rondo attacking the paint with kick outs to open shooters.  (not a great choice with Howard)


3)  KG or Wallace in the low post.  (the most effective but least used attack last night)


My issue is when the shots are not falling, why aren't they attacking the low post more?  Get Howard and Lewis in foul trouble.  Take advantage of the lack of size and strength at PF.  Pull double teams to see if it can create that inside outside offense. 


Best way to fix an offense have a hard shooting night is to attack and create easy close range shot attempts.  Celtics didn't do that often enough. 

As for the Pierce show, it was effective in getting close. 


I just wish they would have just abused Lewis more down low. 

[jdub1660]

I noticed it this season but was really struck by it last night. Our defense was good against Orlando but our offense was a mess, except for spurts. Did you notice how the whole offense relied on Pierce in the third quarter? And it has been the case for many games : give the ball to Pierce, let him dribble, if he makes a pass, give him the ball back, and see what he does.

Don't get me wrong : I think Pierce is a great playmaker and the only player on this team who can really create his shot and scoring opportunities. I'm always impressed with the multiples ways thanks to which he scores. But this is getting disproportional, the offense basically relies on him because Rondo is just making passes to the open guy, and waiting for something to happen. I think it's really bad for ball movement and that it will burn Pierce really quickly fatigue wise if Doc doesn't adjust the offensive schemes.

Also, I have the feeling that Paul doesn't make passes when it's obvious he should. And that's partly because he knows he has the responsibility of scoring on almost every possession. Many times we can see him dribbling, seeing Ray or another shooter wide open in the corner but he doesn't make the pass and keeps dribbling on the other side.

So I think Doc should really focus on the offense. Sure, our defense sucks overall, but we came back to it against Orlando (except for the 1st quarter). And it's our offense who killed us, with too many bad shots or turnovers because of a lack of ball movement, partly due to the fact that the team is often waiting for Pierce to make something happen.

Also, I think Ray should get more touches. He isn't enough involved in the offense.

What do you think?

YES and YES. I just said in another thread that we need another player that can create their own shot. Someone better with moving w/o the ball, and/or shooting off the dribble.
And Ray seems somewhat forgetable in games b/c I don't see enough plays drawn up for him. I saw him hit a great 3 from the corner in one play in 1st half. After that, Pierce was the only one with the ball.


And to another poster, yes rondo can't shoot. He should slash more and draw fouls, but he looks scared. The only game I would rather lose Rondo is against the Cavs b/c he never sees Lebron coming from behind

[SalmonAndMashedPotatoes]

If Rondo isn't getting to the hoop and creating like he should, we don't have many options other than asking Pierce to create, unfortunately enough.  Rondo needs to be the guy to break down the defense, and he's not doing it.  The fact that Rondo's man can sag off him completely is making things more difficult for not only Rondo, but Pierce and Ray, as well.

Doc's the one calling the plays, Roy.  He wants Rondo to be the ball caddy for the majority of the game.  Rondo can only get to the hoop if we set picks for him, yet how many high picks did Doc call last night?  About ZERO.  The fact is, 11 of our 13 points in the first quarter last night came on possessions in which somebody set a random (i.e., not called by Doc) pick for Rondo.  Our other 2 points can off a Perk offensive rebound--every other possession that started with Pierce in isolation, or with a Paul/KG pick and pop, or in which we ran our 'offense'--all those possession resulted in missed jumpers or turnovers.  The only time we actually got to the rim is when somebody randomly set a pick for Rondo...

Rondo's just doing what Doc wants, and that's feeding Paul for isolation attempts, running the motion offense (which results in jumpers, usually), or otherwise not using his natural gifts in the most advantageous manner.

Sure, Rondo's man sags off him--because in Doc's offense the point guard is a ball caddy who sits in the corner.  That's fine if your point guard can shoot--but it's incredibly stupid if your point guard in Rajon Rondo. 

If Rondo had even a respectable jumpshot, or wasn't completely afraid of going to the free throw line, it would open up things a lot more for the rest of the offense, and the ball would be in Paul's hands less.

That probably sounds unfair to Rondo, but I really do think our offense begins with him. 

Nope--the ball ends up in Paul's hands because that's what Doc wants.  He calls the plays--he puts Pierce in isolation situations, and he calls the pick and pop with KG and Pierce (which is a good play when they're making jump shots).  And then sometimes (very rarely unfortunately), he starts calling high picks for Rondo and suddenly everyone thinks that Rondo has 'turned it on'--nope, it's more like suddenly Doc has decided to take advantage of the quickest point guard in the league.  You do realize what happened in the 2nd half against Golden State?  We ran a ton of high picks for Rondo.

Doc's offense is designed to work with or without a point guard--and when Rondo's doing his Eddie House imitation it's because Doc has decided that he'd rather use Ray/Paul as the offensive creators than he would use Rondo.  And then the casual fans thinks Rondo's coasting--he's not, he's being misused.  It's because Doc wants it that way.

[gar]

There is no doubt that teams have learned to play the celts 3 pt game. So although Eddie does spread the floor,unless we attack the basket and D Howard, we are playing into their defense. Yea having Superman waiting for you does not help; but unless you attack and attack and try and get him in foul trouble they can make it hard to get the 3 pt shot off. Yes Sheed had some open looks; but that was with Marquis and Rondo driving the basket - without that our offense became one dimensional.

[twinbree]

I agree. The whole point of the Big 3 was to give Pierce some help so I don't understand why he has to work so hard on offense during the regular season. IMO his isos should be limited mainly to end of game/quarter or shot clock running down type situations.

The offense needs to become more Rondo-centric not in the sense of him being the main scorer but it needs to account for the fact that he's our best play-maker and ball-handler, he's the PG and he can't shoot. Having him hand the ball over and drift into the corner regularly while Paul and Ray dribble into traffic only magnifies the weaknesses everyone involved.

I'm convinced more and more that the offense needs to be revamped. There's not enough off-the ball movement and too much give the ball to so-and-so and move out of the way. We need to be running more plays that have multiple options built in like the great ones they do so well when they need end of game basket.

[gar]

What is troubling is when we had Eddie and Sheed in it became really predictable. 3pt or Pierce. Daniels did a great job of mixing it up. Rays game was good; but did not aggressively challenging D howard.

[SamuelAdams]

I thought there was a pretty good rotation of plays called for different players.  We have seen PP try to lead the O when others are having a bad night. It didn't seem to0 out of place last night.

[jt21]

I think the problem is that the team really has no post up game on offense. It's getting a little ridiculous and annoying that both KGand Wallace, even though they are both about 7 feet, won't go anywhere near the paint and all they take are threes(wallace) or long jump shots with the occasional alley oop for Garnet. Due to this, when the shots aren't falling the team is going to get beat like they did last night. Pierce and Rondo are really the only guys on the team that are getting to the basket and therefore the offense does seem Pierce-centric.