Knicks reverse decision, decide not to sign Iverson

[mrkelly]

The Knicks are a farce. How do you intend to coax any half decent player to come to your team if there isn't even a semblance of a cohesive restructuring plan?

I don't see LeBron, Waid or any other of the 2010 FAs leaving their respective teams to come to this mess. AI or no AI. There just simply is nothing there. Waid is better off with Beasley than with Jordan Hill, and LeBron is better off with his group of Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.bags than with this bunch of scrubs.

This team is going to need to forfeit the next three seasons to get lottery picks and rebuild like that.

[Who]

I don't buy what the Knicks are selling.

Young players? What Knick young guys are even worth mentioning?

The Knicks don't care about a single player on their roster, not a one.

The notion that the Knicks want Eddy Curry playing and to develop their young guys is the biggest crock, farse I've ever heard coming from the Knicks camp.

(1) Danilo Gallinari is an excellent prospect. Wilson Chandler is a solid prospect. Jordan Hill looks a lousy prospect but Donnie Walsh obviously thinks otherwise, why else would he draft him? Oh, and Toney Douglas, who is also a decent-to-solid prospect.

(2) The Knicks do care about their players. Their young players are vitally important to the Knicks chances of acquiring star players next summer. Their other players are stop-gap players.

(3) The Knicks want Eddy Curry back on the court so that they can try and trade him.

[LB3533]

I don't buy what the Knicks are selling.

Young players? What Knick young guys are even worth mentioning?

The Knicks don't care about a single player on their roster, not a one.

The notion that the Knicks want Eddy Curry playing and to develop their young guys is the biggest crock, farse I've ever heard coming from the Knicks camp.

(1) Danilo Gallinari is an excellent prospect. Wilson Chandler is a solid prospect. Jordan Hill looks a lousy prospect but Donnie Walsh obviously thinks otherwise, why else would he draft him? Oh, and Toney Douglas, who is also a decent-to-solid prospect.

(2) The Knicks do care about their players. Their young players are vitally important to the Knicks chances of acquiring star players next summer. Their other players are stop-gap players.

(3) The Knicks want Eddy Curry back on the court so that they can try and trade him.

To Lebron, Wade, Joe Johnson....Allen Iverson is the bigger and better draw than the combination of crap the Knicks have.

[nickagneta]

wow and so the "puppy loving","lets develop our youngin" philosophy wins out again. So sad. Can't stand the frame of thinking. The Knicks now talking about "Developing". The knicks are a disaster and will continue to be so for years to come. The Positives outweigh the negatives like crazy. I mean you guys AI hating is absolutely uncanny. I mean REALLY GUYS? You truly believe signing AI to an already disastrous team for ONE YEAR (we're not talking long term contracts here) ONE FREAKIN YEAR! will Destroy another players development that much. REALLY? So wait, back in 04 I believe it was , when we brought Walker back (you know the Selfish,3pt chucking AW) that "Utterly destroyed" the development of Al Jefferson?
  Keep in mind Wallace was considered a cancer as well. ARGHH. I guess I truly underestimated how much AI is really hated. This is ridiculous. Maybe i'll concede a wee bit if AI were looking for a long term deal, THEN I can agree for a bit and say "ok maybe they're interested in letting young guys get playing time". I'll state 3 facts here.

#1 TONY DOUGLAS DOES NOT START! So if the Knicks had the sincere desire to "develop" Douglas and let him shine and get as much playing time as possible, He'll be getting the bulk of minutes RIGHT NOW. He's coming off the bench , playing behind Chris DUHON. CHRIS DUHON!!!! So technically couldn't a case be made that Duhon is "hindering Development"?

#2 THE KNICKS SUCK!!!! anything would help them right now. Even adding a "cancer" such as AI.

#3 There's no excitement on their roster. AI would at least sell tickets. IF it would've worked out could very well attract a desired free agent that they seem to be mortgaging their franchise on the delusion that they're going to get a big time Lebron type free agent Next year. Mark My WORDs.... WON'T HAPPEN. Cavs are going to do any & everything to keep LJ in cleveland and he'll resign. This reminds me of the time THE clippers just "knew" they had a shot at Kobe. lol

#4 OH Did I mention..THE KNICKS SUCK!!!! anything would help them right now. Even adding a "cancer" such as AI.

Let me address these points backwards.

4.) Yes, they suck but the Knicks are under new management and new coaching. This is not the Isiah Thomas Knicks. Why people can't get that through their heads astounds me. This is Donnie Walsh, the builder of the Smits/Schremph/Miller/Davis/Davis/Jackson/McKey Pacers of the mid 90's and D'Antoni was the coach of the Nash/Amare/Marion/Barbosa/Johnson/Bell/Diaw Suns that were so good during the early 2000's. They know what they are doing and if they don't want Iverson around, even when they suck, that speaks volumes against  and about Iverson as a player, employee and team mate, not Walsh and D'Antoni as a GM and coach.

3.) Again, the idea that the Knicks need to sell more tickets is ludicrous. They currently have the 5th highest home attendance in the league averaging 19,625 people a night. Please, enough with the whole "he'll help them sell tickets philosophy. This is the Knicks and MSG we are talking about not Charlotte, Philly, Memphis or Sacramento.

2.) No apparently they won't do ANYTHING to get better. They won't add Iverson. Yes they suck but they are selling tickets and the Knicks fan base is pretty intelligent and understands what the goal is in NY. They, as fans, will be supportive and understanding.

1.) Rookies have to earn time and Toney Douglas is only earning the time he is getting. What is more important to development of players is that they develop playing and learning the system you have. Getting Iverson destroys that system because as Larry brown said:

"But in order to bring Allen in, you have to realize this is a kid who’s so competitive - that’s what’s made him great. And if you think you’re going to manage his minutes and he’s going to be satisfied with that, it’s not going to happen. He has to be a big part of your team and you have to be confident that you’re going to let him do what he does.”

http://sportsradiointerviews.com/2009/11/19/larry-brown-on-the-still-homeless-allen-iverson-if-you-think-youre-going-to-manage-his-minutes-and-hes-going-to-be-satisfied-with-that-its-not-going-to-happen/

Let me make that last part larger so that it is easier to read and doesn't get lost:

"You have to be confident that you're to let him do what he does."

The coach that likes him and supports him the most but who's front office won't have anything to do with Iverson says "you're to let him do what he does". In other words, throw out the system, throw out teaching young players about the extra pass, or shooting the ball within the flow of the offense, or when to pull up for a shot on the break and when to drive, or pass and the ball will be passed back to you, or how to play defense or how to play defense within the system, or ant of that stuff you need to impress upon rookies. Because how are they going to learn those things when the guy you are giving the ball to to run the team and is the team's star is ignoring all those things in an attempt to score all the time to remake his career.

[Eric_Suede]

wow and so the "puppy loving","lets develop our youngin" philosophy wins out again. So sad. Can't stand the frame of thinking. The Knicks now talking about "Developing". The knicks are a disaster and will continue to be so for years to come. The Positives outweigh the negatives like crazy. I mean you guys AI hating is absolutely uncanny. I mean REALLY GUYS? You truly believe signing AI to an already disastrous team for ONE YEAR (we're not talking long term contracts here) ONE FREAKIN YEAR! will Destroy another players development that much. REALLY? So wait, back in 04 I believe it was , when we brought Walker back (you know the Selfish,3pt chucking AW) that "Utterly destroyed" the development of Al Jefferson?
  Keep in mind Wallace was considered a cancer as well. ARGHH. I guess I truly underestimated how much AI is really hated. This is ridiculous. Maybe i'll concede a wee bit if AI were looking for a long term deal, THEN I can agree for a bit and say "ok maybe they're interested in letting young guys get playing time". I'll state 3 facts here.

#1 TONY DOUGLAS DOES NOT START! So if the Knicks had the sincere desire to "develop" Douglas and let him shine and get as much playing time as possible, He'll be getting the bulk of minutes RIGHT NOW. He's coming off the bench , playing behind Chris DUHON. CHRIS DUHON!!!! So technically couldn't a case be made that Duhon is "hindering Development"?

#2 THE KNICKS SUCK!!!! anything would help them right now. Even adding a "cancer" such as AI.

#3 There's no excitement on their roster. AI would at least sell tickets. IF it would've worked out could very well attract a desired free agent that they seem to be mortgaging their franchise on the delusion that they're going to get a big time Lebron type free agent Next year. Mark My WORDs.... WON'T HAPPEN. Cavs are going to do any & everything to keep LJ in cleveland and he'll resign. This reminds me of the time THE clippers just "knew" they had a shot at Kobe. lol

#4 OH Did I mention..THE KNICKS SUCK!!!! anything would help them right now. Even adding a "cancer" such as AI.

Let me address these points backwards.

4.) Yes, they suck but the Knicks are under new management and new coaching. This is not the Isiah Thomas Knicks. Why people can't get that through their heads astounds me. This is Donnie Walsh, the builder of the Smits/Schremph/Miller/Davis/Davis/Jackson/McKey Pacers of the mid 90's and D'Antoni was the coach of the Nash/Amare/Marion/Barbosa/Johnson/Bell/Diaw Suns that were so good during the early 2000's. They know what they are doing and if they don't want Iverson around, even when they suck, that speaks volumes against  and about Iverson as a player, employee and team mate, not Walsh and D'Antoni as a GM and coach.

3.) Again, the idea that the Knicks need to sell more tickets is ludicrous. They currently have the 5th highest home attendance in the league averaging 19,625 people a night. Please, enough with the whole "he'll help them sell tickets philosophy. This is the Knicks and MSG we are talking about not Charlotte, Philly, Memphis or Sacramento.

2.) No apparently they won't do ANYTHING to get better. They won't add Iverson. Yes they suck but they are selling tickets and the Knicks fan base is pretty intelligent and understands what the goal is in NY. They, as fans, will be supportive and understanding.

1.) Rookies have to earn time and Toney Douglas is only earning the time he is getting. What is more important to development of players is that they develop playing and learning the system you have. Getting Iverson destroys that system because as Larry brown said:

"But in order to bring Allen in, you have to realize this is a kid who’s so competitive - that’s what’s made him great. And if you think you’re going to manage his minutes and he’s going to be satisfied with that, it’s not going to happen. He has to be a big part of your team and you have to be confident that you’re going to let him do what he does.”

http://sportsradiointerviews.com/2009/11/19/larry-brown-on-the-still-homeless-allen-iverson-if-you-think-youre-going-to-manage-his-minutes-and-hes-going-to-be-satisfied-with-that-its-not-going-to-happen/

Let me make that last part larger so that it is easier to read and doesn't get lost:

"You have to be confident that you're to let him do what he does."

The coach that likes him and supports him the most but who's front office won't have anything to do with Iverson says "you're to let him do what he does". In other words, throw out the system, throw out teaching young players about the extra pass, or shooting the ball within the flow of the offense, or when to pull up for a shot on the break and when to drive, or pass and the ball will be passed back to you, or how to play defense or how to play defense within the system, or ant of that stuff you need to impress upon rookies. Because how are they going to learn those things when the guy you are giving the ball to to run the team and is the team's star is ignoring all those things in an attempt to score all the time to remake his career.

I'll also in turn respond out of order...

1) I didn't say the Knicks NEED to sell more tickets, i said they WOULD sell more tickets. a franchise making more money and selling more tickets is not a bad idea at all.

2) Again, if AI were looking for a long term deal , THEN i'd be in 100% agreement with you. AI wouldn't fit into plans team has for the future. But I still fail to see how much a 69-70 game experiment to an already Disastrous team will destroy the franchise's future or hinder their ability to later build a winning team at all. That's why I gave the Antoine walker analogy, we tried the "4 headed monster" experiment (remember Payton,Davis,Pierce,Walker), it failed 1st round exit, too bad , so sad , no harm no foul. that didn't "Destroy" us. Al Jefferson's development into the player he is today didn't diminish cause he had to give up minutes to a "cancer" as AW was percieved to be after things didn't work in dallas.

3) Douglas, as with Hill are rookies. Playing sparringly your first year will not hinder you to blossoming and becoming a star. (cough, cough, kobe bryant, Rajon Rondo)

4)If AI went to NY and was a headcase and a complete disaster , all blame will be placed on AI himself. Wouldn't reflect on the team. As a matter of fact they can make it appear that they suck this season "Because" of AI, which completely exonnerates them. ON the flipside lets say AI shows definite signs of his old self and scores 25ppg and passes more and turns over a new leaf. Can we say Trade bait anyone? Trust someone will be stupid enough to want him (cough ,cough as detroit was). You may make the case and say Denver suffered cause AI was there but look what they got as a result. BILLUPS who does the knicks have that could be used as trade bait to get a Billups type player? Duhon?

bottomline dude, I agree to the point AI has issues and I can also see why a contender or a team with a clear long term vision and have legitimate building blocks to hover around, may pass or be weary of signing him. then Maybe I'll let this go. But when you're a disaster of a franchise, You suck, and there's no hope in sight of improving for like the next 3-4 seasons. Adding a Future Hall of Famer to your roster for ONE YEAR (again we're not talking long term) is not a bad idea. I'm just shocked noone realizes this and is blinded by Puppy love. Again imagine where we'd be right now if we shunned vets and decided to hang onto our "FUTURE" (jefferson,Gomes,Green,Telfair,West) sure we'd be improved and scrappy but we'd still be looking up looking at the rafters asking "I wonder when we're we going to get banner #17"

[nickagneta]

Again, you aren't getting it. The C's added Antoine to try to win a title. You say his exposure to Big Al didn't cost in Al's development. But Al didn't work out that off season, didn't change his diet, didn't hit the weight room, came into the next season out of shape, hurt his foot and was useless for over another year. Not eating right, not hitting the gym, not working on your game, not coming into camp in shape...who does that sound like? I say adding Antoine had a definitive impact on Al's development and for the worse. Al could have been much better much faster had he not been exposed to Antoine.

AI's exposure to young players can have a similar effect. Why chance putting their development back even one more day. Even one. It is a counter-productive philosophy that benefits only Iverson and not the Knicks and, last I checked, the Knicks are in business for the Knicks not AI. If any of Iverson's attitude to practice or team play effects one of their young players, then the Knicks made a grave mistake. No sense chancing it.

As for selling more tickets, how many more? They are already at 99.5% of capacity. Stop with the Iverson will draw or sell tickets. The most he would be able to sell is another 3500 of the very worst seats at MSG as a total for the entire freaking year. That's about 100 tickets per game. At $50 per ticket that's not even enough to cover 20% of Iverson's subsidized salary, never mind what it would then cost them to pay for his luxury tax penalty.

[Eric_Suede]

Again, you aren't getting it. The C's added Antoine to try to win a title. You say his exposure to Big Al didn't cost in Al's development. But Al didn't work out that off season, didn't change his diet, didn't hit the weight room, came into the next season out of shape, hurt his foot and was useless for over another year. Not eating right, not hitting the gym, not working on your game, not coming into camp in shape...who does that sound like? I say adding Antoine had a definitive impact on Al's development and for the worse. Al could have been much better much faster had he not been exposed to Antoine.

AI's exposure to young players can have a similar effect. Why chance putting their development back even one more day. Even one. It is a counter-productive philosophy that benefits only Iverson and not the Knicks and, last I checked, the Knicks are in business for the Knicks not AI. If any of Iverson's attitude to practice or team play effects one of their young players, then the Knicks made a grave mistake. No sense chancing it.
As for selling more tickets, how many more? They are already at 99.5% of capacity. Stop with the Iverson will draw or sell tickets. The most he would be able to sell is another 3500 of the very worst seats at MSG as a total for the entire freaking year. That's about 100 tickets per game. At $50 per ticket that's not even enough to cover 20% of Iverson's subsidized salary, never mind what it would then cost them to pay for his luxury tax penalty.

So in other words there's no such thing as personal responsibility? Jefferson's decision to come in out of shape and him hurting his foot was all Walker's Fault? You know what , i'll let you have that. Let's get back to AI. What evidence can you present that would lead you to believe AI's presence will hinder the young players? Give me an example. Quite frankly i've noticed the complete opposite affect. People who have played alongside AI later became Better. Iguadala ( I know I spelled that wrong and I don't feel like looking it up. lol)Anthony,Delambert (who was young when playing with AI) are all playing great. Give me an example of a young player who played alongside AI and then went on to follow his example and shun practice, become arrogant and whine and all out basketcase.
 I'm telling you this whole "development" philosophy is Bunk. Again that's what the NBDL is for. If you have a player who you feel isn't ready but will one day be a star you Work him in and make him EARN his shot. If AI was shot and Douglas was outplaying him , THEN there's a debate you can have about who should start and get all the minutes. Dude I guess we'll agree to disagree. personally I think it's insane to sit a solid vet down who can win you games in favor of a young kid who'll lose games for you, All in the name of development.
 Last point, Nba history has shown time and time again , once these player are "Developed" and are stars , the RARELY stick with that losing team that let them shine. I can confidently say about 80% of all players that started off as prospects that needed to develop, always come contract year move to a different team as they're tired of losing. So in this case , if Douglas becomes a star in lets say 3 years and his contract is up, what are the odds of him staying with a disastrous franchise as opposed to going elsewhere where they'll give him serious money & give him an opportunity to win? Ah well, to bad for the knicks. My heart just goes out to vets that's all. I know , I know it's a young mans game but I think it's an injustice for essentially a proven vet who's still a great player , to get passed over for a young kid who's not up to par and can't win games.

 imagine you in your 9-5 being fired & told they're replacing you with this kid fresh out of high school or college with the idea "well just think, he has the potential to one day be a great worker just like you are now" . TO me that's ludicrous. You let that kid Intern and work his way up , and when that day comes that he can do a better job than you, THEN it can be discussed as to who should get the job. Heart just goes out to the many good solid vets that gets disrespected. 

[nickagneta]

Again, you aren't getting it. The C's added Antoine to try to win a title. You say his exposure to Big Al didn't cost in Al's development. But Al didn't work out that off season, didn't change his diet, didn't hit the weight room, came into the next season out of shape, hurt his foot and was useless for over another year. Not eating right, not hitting the gym, not working on your game, not coming into camp in shape...who does that sound like? I say adding Antoine had a definitive impact on Al's development and for the worse. Al could have been much better much faster had he not been exposed to Antoine.

AI's exposure to young players can have a similar effect. Why chance putting their development back even one more day. Even one. It is a counter-productive philosophy that benefits only Iverson and not the Knicks and, last I checked, the Knicks are in business for the Knicks not AI. If any of Iverson's attitude to practice or team play effects one of their young players, then the Knicks made a grave mistake. No sense chancing it.
As for selling more tickets, how many more? They are already at 99.5% of capacity. Stop with the Iverson will draw or sell tickets. The most he would be able to sell is another 3500 of the very worst seats at MSG as a total for the entire freaking year. That's about 100 tickets per game. At $50 per ticket that's not even enough to cover 20% of Iverson's subsidized salary, never mind what it would then cost them to pay for his luxury tax penalty.

So in other words there's no such thing as personal responsibility? Jefferson's decision to come in out of shape and him hurting his foot was all Walker's Fault? You know what , i'll let you have that. Let's get back to AI. What evidence can you present that would lead you to believe AI's presence will hinder the young players? Give me an example. Quite frankly i've noticed the complete opposite affect. People who have played alongside AI later became Better. Iguadala ( I know I spelled that wrong and I don't feel like looking it up. lol)Anthony,Delambert (who was young when playing with AI) are all playing great. Give me an example of a young player who played alongside AI and then went on to follow his example and shun practice, become arrogant and whine and all out basketcase.
 I'm telling you this whole "development" philosophy is Bunk. Again that's what the NBDL is for. If you have a player who you feel isn't ready but will one day be a star you Work him in and make him EARN his shot. If AI was shot and Douglas was outplaying him , THEN there's a debate you can have about who should start and get all the minutes. Dude I guess we'll agree to disagree. personally I think it's insane to sit a solid vet down who can win you games in favor of a young kid who'll lose games for you, All in the name of development.
 Last point, Nba history has shown time and time again , once these player are "Developed" and are stars , the RARELY stick with that losing team that let them shine. I can confidently say about 80% of all players that started off as prospects that needed to develop, always come contract year move to a different team as they're tired of losing. So in this case , if Douglas becomes a star in lets say 3 years and his contract is up, what are the odds of him staying with a disastrous franchise as opposed to going elsewhere where they'll give him serious money & give him an opportunity to win? Ah well, to bad for the knicks. My heart just goes out to vets that's all. I know , I know it's a young mans game but I think it's an injustice for essentially a proven vet who's still a great player , to get passed over for a young kid who's not up to par and can't win games.

 imagine you in your 9-5 being fired & told they're replacing you with this kid fresh out of high school or college with the idea "well just think, he has the potential to one day be a great worker just like you are now" . TO me that's ludicrous. You let that kid Intern and work his way up , and when that day comes that he can do a better job than you, THEN it can be discussed as to who should get the job. Heart just goes out to the many good solid vets that gets disrespected. 

The NBDL is for players not good enough to play in the NBA not for developing players. There has been almost no players league wide that ever was on a team was sent down to the NBDL and came back much better developed as a player. Players develop in practice and in game experience in the NBA, not dominating or struggling against lesser talented players than play in the NBA.

You claim AI didn't hinder players but then give the perfect example of a player he hindered, Iguodala. Iguodala could not develop while Iverson was on the team because Iverson didn't allow it. He left and AI2 developed his game. And again, you are completely glossing over all the other ways Iverson can effect a player.

You just don't get it. Most of what you are saying is nonsense. It is all some really strange convoluted philosophy that puts the needs of the one before the needs of the many. The proper teaching and development of all players that will be on the Knicks next year is more important to Donnie Walsh and Mike D'Antoni than the non-guarantee of winning any more games while AI shows the world he can still jack up 25 shots a game to average 20 Points per game. The Knicks are now in long term rebuilding and Iverson adds NOTHING to that.

Please stop looking at this from the Iverson point of view. What do the Knicks have to gain by signing Iverson. Three maybe 4 more game this year? Even if the number is ten games, what does that accomplish if the players you are going forward with are getting less exposure to playing within the team's offensive and defensive schemes in real game conditions.

[Eric_Suede]

Again, you aren't getting it. The C's added Antoine to try to win a title. You say his exposure to Big Al didn't cost in Al's development. But Al didn't work out that off season, didn't change his diet, didn't hit the weight room, came into the next season out of shape, hurt his foot and was useless for over another year. Not eating right, not hitting the gym, not working on your game, not coming into camp in shape...who does that sound like? I say adding Antoine had a definitive impact on Al's development and for the worse. Al could have been much better much faster had he not been exposed to Antoine.

AI's exposure to young players can have a similar effect. Why chance putting their development back even one more day. Even one. It is a counter-productive philosophy that benefits only Iverson and not the Knicks and, last I checked, the Knicks are in business for the Knicks not AI. If any of Iverson's attitude to practice or team play effects one of their young players, then the Knicks made a grave mistake. No sense chancing it.
As for selling more tickets, how many more? They are already at 99.5% of capacity. Stop with the Iverson will draw or sell tickets. The most he would be able to sell is another 3500 of the very worst seats at MSG as a total for the entire freaking year. That's about 100 tickets per game. At $50 per ticket that's not even enough to cover 20% of Iverson's subsidized salary, never mind what it would then cost them to pay for his luxury tax penalty.

So in other words there's no such thing as personal responsibility? Jefferson's decision to come in out of shape and him hurting his foot was all Walker's Fault? You know what , i'll let you have that. Let's get back to AI. What evidence can you present that would lead you to believe AI's presence will hinder the young players? Give me an example. Quite frankly i've noticed the complete opposite affect. People who have played alongside AI later became Better. Iguadala ( I know I spelled that wrong and I don't feel like looking it up. lol)Anthony,Delambert (who was young when playing with AI) are all playing great. Give me an example of a young player who played alongside AI and then went on to follow his example and shun practice, become arrogant and whine and all out basketcase.
 I'm telling you this whole "development" philosophy is Bunk. Again that's what the NBDL is for. If you have a player who you feel isn't ready but will one day be a star you Work him in and make him EARN his shot. If AI was shot and Douglas was outplaying him , THEN there's a debate you can have about who should start and get all the minutes. Dude I guess we'll agree to disagree. personally I think it's insane to sit a solid vet down who can win you games in favor of a young kid who'll lose games for you, All in the name of development.
 Last point, Nba history has shown time and time again , once these player are "Developed" and are stars , the RARELY stick with that losing team that let them shine. I can confidently say about 80% of all players that started off as prospects that needed to develop, always come contract year move to a different team as they're tired of losing. So in this case , if Douglas becomes a star in lets say 3 years and his contract is up, what are the odds of him staying with a disastrous franchise as opposed to going elsewhere where they'll give him serious money & give him an opportunity to win? Ah well, to bad for the knicks. My heart just goes out to vets that's all. I know , I know it's a young mans game but I think it's an injustice for essentially a proven vet who's still a great player , to get passed over for a young kid who's not up to par and can't win games.

 imagine you in your 9-5 being fired & told they're replacing you with this kid fresh out of high school or college with the idea "well just think, he has the potential to one day be a great worker just like you are now" . TO me that's ludicrous. You let that kid Intern and work his way up , and when that day comes that he can do a better job than you, THEN it can be discussed as to who should get the job. Heart just goes out to the many good solid vets that gets disrespected. 

The NBDL is for players not good enough to play in the NBA not for developing players. There has been almost no players league wide that ever was on a team was sent down to the NBDL and came back much better developed as a player. Players develop in practice and in game experience in the NBA, not dominating or struggling against lesser talented players than play in the NBA.

You claim AI didn't hinder players but then give the perfect example of a player he hindered, Iguodala. Iguodala could not develop while Iverson was on the team because Iverson didn't allow it. He left and AI2 developed his game. And again, you are completely glossing over all the other ways Iverson can effect a player.

You just don't get it. Most of what you are saying is nonsense. It is all some really strange convoluted philosophy that puts the needs of the one before the needs of the many. The proper teaching and development of all players that will be on the Knicks next year is more important to Donnie Walsh and Mike D'Antoni than the non-guarantee of winning any more games while AI shows the world he can still jack up 25 shots a game to average 20 Points per game. The Knicks are now in long term rebuilding and Iverson adds NOTHING to that.

Please stop looking at this from the Iverson point of view. What do the Knicks have to gain by signing Iverson. Three maybe 4 more game this year? Even if the number is ten games, what does that accomplish if the players you are going forward with are getting less exposure to playing within the team's offensive and defensive schemes in real game conditions.

 No i'm not looking at it from AI's point of view and no i'm not spouting nonsense. Just because I disagree with you, doesn't make it nonsense. I understand completely what you are saying, I just happen to disagree. My philosophy is very simple. "Put your best team on the floor." A great combination of mainly Solid Vets and a few gifted young players wins championships. A young Puppy squad Loses games and just depresses everyone. I'm struggling to find an example of a team that had practically all young players "develop" those players and they went on to become champs. AT Best they gel and become scrappy #7 or #8 seeded teams. But majority of the time they suck and they continue to suck until that day comes when the gm wises up and bring in some vets. Repeating myself once again , a great example are our beloved C's. If we had waited on jefferson,west & company to develop we'd still be losers in search of #17.   
 Had the sixers immediately let AI go once they picked up Iguodala, they'll be in the same rut they're in now. You act as if it wasn't for AI being there Iggy would've led them to a title by now.
 I was joking about the NBDL thing. My point is simply this, I believe in that old school philosophy during the draft. It used to be you drafted (especially if you had a top pick) A player you feel can come in "IMMEDIATELY" and contribute. If not he sits on the bench and develops. In today's NBA they seem to have this attitude of "lets cut our best players, Give our youngins all the pt. Just think! we'll one day be a playoff team". Gm's now would rather draft some high schooler based on his "potential" rather than a solid College player who can come in immediately and contribute. I just don't think that makes champions. Again I can't think of an example of that actually working. I don't know where AI will end up Nor do I believe a top contender should sign him but if you're a struggling franchise with a joke of a roster and you're bound to lose 60+ games. I'm sorry we'll just disagree, I feel adding a player with AI's abilities is a good thing. I think Losing day in & day out kills moral more than anything else. We're talking about the knicks here anyways. If i'm the GM and i'm looking at my roster and my starting pg is DUHON, (Duhon get's more playing time than douglas by the way. Hinderance?)  I mean....forgive me for not seeing the light and wondering why they won't pick up AI and let duhon's minutes as Mike Tyson would say go to "blivion"

[wdleehi]

There is not benefit for the Knicks to get AI.


Either way, they miss the playoffs.


But one way, it is harder to get a high draft pick.  It is harder to get minutes for younger players that represent their future.  It is harder to showcase players like Curry in hopes of moving him for cap space to sign more FA.  And you add the AI influence (no practice.  play for yourself, not team.  Going out late every night and complain about "fl like symptoms" in the morning)

[Eric_Suede]

There is not benefit for the Knicks to get AI.


Either way, they miss the playoffs.


But one way, it is harder to get a high draft pick.  It is harder to get minutes for younger players that represent their future.  It is harder to showcase players like Curry in hopes of moving him for cap space to sign more FA.  And you add the AI influence (no practice.  play for yourself, not team.  Going out late every night and complain about "fl like symptoms" in the morning)

Well that's where myself and you guys are in disagreement. I think it benefits a young player more to be on a team that wins more games and misses the playoffs but are in the hunt (ending the season #9 Spot). As opposed to being on a 15 win team that's one of the laughing stocks of the league. The former gives young players better example of what it takes to win and also gives them confidence. Take the hawks for example. lets say they abided by you guys philosophy and decided "ah bibby is too old, he'll hinder the development of our future CHildress" they would've sucked, wouldn't have made the playoffs and never would've been given the opportunity to battle the celtics tooth & nail , which in turn gave them (including all the young players) that they ARE that good and CAN compete with the best. Since then Horford and company has been playing with much more swagger. Losing again just depressess everyone. Sure they may miss out on a higher draft but look at them now. Besides since they showed signs of being on the up & up. Trust me when I tell you, they'll have a much easier time persuading a big time free agent to come to ATL. as opposed to a dismal 15-win team like the knicks & memphis or minnesota who'll continue to thread in the waters of mediocrity.

[wdleehi]

There is not benefit for the Knicks to get AI.


Either way, they miss the playoffs.


But one way, it is harder to get a high draft pick.  It is harder to get minutes for younger players that represent their future.  It is harder to showcase players like Curry in hopes of moving him for cap space to sign more FA.  And you add the AI influence (no practice.  play for yourself, not team.  Going out late every night and complain about "fl like symptoms" in the morning)

Well that's where myself and you guys are in disagreement. I think it benefits a young player more to be on a team that wins more games and misses the playoffs but are in the hunt (ending the season #9 Spot). As opposed to being on a 15 win team that's one of the laughing stocks of the league. The former gives young players better example of what it takes to win and also gives them confidence. Take the hawks for example. lets say they abided by you guys philosophy and decided "ah bibby is too old, he'll hinder the development of our future CHildress" they would've sucked, would've have made the playoffs and never would've been given the opportunity to battle the celtics tooth & nail , which in turn gave them (including all the young players) that they ARE that good and CAN compete with the best. Since then Horford and company has been playing with much more swagger. Losing again just depressess everyone. 

Name one time AI helped a young player develop?


And lets repeat this question that closed the last AI discussion we had (that was never answered)

Name one extended time (at least 10 games) that AI put team ahead of AI (by his actions, not his words) in season.

[LB3533]

Kyle Korver