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Improvements All Around
« on: November 20, 2009, 04:26:24 AM »

Offline LB3533

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Overall Team Improvements Needed

1. Re-dedication to team and individual defense:

Dating back to the Minny game (7 games) we are allowing opponents to shoot a blistering 48% (259/540) from the field. That's basically 10% higher than our allowance over the first 5 games of the season [38.5% (149/387)].

Over that same 7 games, we've held exactly one team to under 45% field goal shooting, the depleted Nets (43.1%)

So that makes 6 teams out of the last 7 have shot 45% or better against "the best defensive team since the Bears".

Oh yeah, 3 teams have shot over 50% too.

2. Team rebounding:

I'm not a big believer in "rebounding wins games", I'm more of a believer in the motto "not rebounding loses games".

I have zero concerns for our offensive rebounding game...I just flat out don't care. We shoot 50% as a team, I don't care if we are last in the league in ORB.

Defensive rebounding is the key. We should be tops in the league or at the very least top 5. We are currently 12th in DRB% (.744) tied with the New York Knicks and slightly beneath the Memphis Grizzlies.

Last year we were 3rd, and our championship year we were 8th.

Our defensive rebounding has suffered over the last 7 games. We've given up 69 offensive rebounds to our opponents during that span, or 9.86 ORPG allowed.

Our first 5 games we've given up 52 offensive rebounds to our oppenents, or 10.2 ORPG allowed.

But look at the above defensive statistics. Point 1, above shows that there were a ton more available offensive rebounds for our opponents to grab during the first 5 games. We limited them to only 38.5% shooting.

Over the last 7 games, because of our regression in defense, our opponents were not only making shots at a higher rate, they were also grabbing their misses at a higher rate too.

This team needs to improve its defensive rebounding.


Individual Improvements

1. Ray Allen = needs to shoot better from the arc

2. Paul Pierce = needs to shoot more

3. KG = needs to improve overall rebounding slightly, but defensive rebounding more in particular.

4. Rondo = individual defense needs to improve, also game flow and game management needs to improve as well, be more aggressive on offense...you can't play passive or play to pass the ball to teammates ALL the time. Opposing defenses pick up on this trend and will make you pay. And FREE THROWS TOO, 25% is not acceptable.

5. Perk = cut down on the turnovers, not all of them are your fault, refs are stinky sometimes

6. Sheed = shoot better from 3 point land or stop taking them and go inside more

7. Eddie = find your rhythm, it will come soon enough though

8. Quis = don't think we can get more out of you unless you become a starter, good job

9. Sheldon = don't think we can get more out of your unless you become a starter, good job

Re: Improvements All Around
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2009, 05:09:44 AM »

Offline Atzar

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I can't disagree with anything you said.  Take a TP.

Re: Improvements All Around
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2009, 05:16:49 AM »

Kiorrik

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Solid, solid post there matey. TP'd you up for this one. Might do it again ;)

I agree to the entire point 1. Same goes for point 2; bottom line is that we need to learn to box out. I'm sure everyone can agree on that :)

As for your individual points, I agree to an extend. Ray needs to pick his shooting up, and KG needs to be KG again. Let's face it, shall we; he's not 100%.

About Rondo... maybe it's Doc's call that he's fishing for steals instead of keeping his man in front of him. I think I wouldn't mind him letting his man past him as long as -and here it is- defensive rotations can make up for his gambles. He needs to get to the open man asap if he fails to reach in.
As far as his passiveness on offense goes, I'd say he's a facilitator first and foremost. I honestly don't mind when he takes fewer than 10 shots in a game, as long as he gets people open looks. I think his assists should be in direct relation to his shots. Say he gets 25 "Rondo points" a game. He can either take 10 shots and get 15 assists or go 20/5. What I'd like to see though, is him recognizing when to go for what stat. Some games he has to be the scorer, some games he needs to be a facilitator.

Then there's your point 7, Eddie. I think Eddie has his rythm, he just doesn't get his looks. This is for a single reason only; he needs to face the fact that he's NOT a point guard. He is a runner that needs picks to get open looks. He shouldn't dribble the ball more than once before he takes his shot.

And yes, Quis and Sheldon are absolutely awesome. Perfect role players. Especially Quis imo, has he even missed an inside shot? ;)

Re: Improvements All Around
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2009, 05:33:48 AM »

Offline Drucci

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Excellent post and resume, thanks (TP)!

I agree with all your points. Marquis and Shelden have been the most consistent and efficient Celtics so far. I would add Ray in that category. It's true that his 3's are not falling but he doesn't take much anymore, and I really like the fact that he is always (or almost) using his midrange game and going to the hoop. It breaks opposing defenses who see Ray just as a catch & shoot guy from the corner, and it gives us easy points or a good pass to an open teammate.

Plus, his moves are so smooth that it's a real pleasure to see him drive to the hoop or block his shot in the air and make it.

To me, our top priorities are the rebounding (on defense especially, like you said) and Rondo. He must stop being so passive and waiting for his teammates to get open. At least, when he does that, he should consider attacking the hoop when nobody gets free because he always makes the pass and this results in nothing.

Re: Improvements All Around
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2009, 06:14:25 AM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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About Rondo... maybe it's Doc's call that he's fishing for steals instead of keeping his man in front of him. I think I wouldn't mind him letting his man past him as long as -and here it is- defensive rotations can make up for his gambles.

I can guarantee it's not Doc's call.  In fact, this exact issue came up earlier, and Doc said he doesn't like the practice (See here.)  He indicated that any time you let the opposing point guard into the paint, something bad is likely to happen.  At the time, Rondo agreed, and said he was going to play more fundamental defense this year.  So much for that.

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

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Re: Improvements All Around
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2009, 10:55:16 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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TP from me as well.  solid post and analysis.  there's someone on the home page thinking that all that matters is a 9-3 record and anything other than that doesn't matter.  I'm sending them the link to this post as a perfect example of why the record is deceptive.  Couldn't have made the argument any better myself.

Re: Improvements All Around
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2009, 11:21:47 AM »

Offline LB3533

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I was listening to the Big Show yesterday (yeah smack me in the face, I deserve it), but Max was on the show and he said that the defense really STARTS with Rondo and not KG.

When Rondo isn't controlling the point of attack and allowing his man to beat him, the rest of our defense is going to collapse inside and step up to cut the penetration off.

This leaves either an open man on the perimeter (when either Ray or Paul collapses towards the paint) or two open players underneath the basket (when KG or Perk steps up to contest the penetration).

Sure Rondo can poke a couple steals or knock the ball out of bounds, but it doesn't work every time. Some of the times, Rondo will poke the ball away and it will go to another opposing player which may result in "accidental offense" for the other team.

The basic problem here is that our defense breaks down when Rondo goes for these risks. Both the perimeter and the interior are more vulnerable, and because our bigs have to step up to stop penetration the two of them will automatically be out of position for defensive rebounding (their men will have inside positioning "before the fact").

Now, I don't like to harp on Rondo for his risk taking, he's probably my favorite player on the team right now, but his natural god given birth talents (long arms and reach, big hands) are selling himself short on the defensive end, and putting his teammates in more vulnerable positions.

I much rather prefer if Rondo goes for any type of steal it is the straight up man to man defense steal when Rondo's opponent is in front of Rondo and "between" Rondo's legs, if you will.


Re: Improvements All Around
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2009, 11:34:48 AM »

Offline BballTim

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About Rondo... maybe it's Doc's call that he's fishing for steals instead of keeping his man in front of him. I think I wouldn't mind him letting his man past him as long as -and here it is- defensive rotations can make up for his gambles.

I can guarantee it's not Doc's call.  In fact, this exact issue came up earlier, and Doc said he doesn't like the practice (See here.)  He indicated that any time you let the opposing point guard into the paint, something bad is likely to happen.  At the time, Rondo agreed, and said he was going to play more fundamental defense this year.  So much for that.

  Rondo's doing a significantly better job of keeping his man in front of him this year. But if Rondo does get beat or his guy gets past him because of a pick, what then? If he swipes at the ball there's a good chance he'll knock it loose. It's a smart play. Only then half the people here will claim that he let his guy get past him on purpose to try for the steal.

  You're also using quotes based on Rondo's play last year. What I've seen from Doc, his comments about Rondo's defense is generally pretty favorable.

Re: Improvements All Around
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2009, 12:04:10 PM »

Kiorrik

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About Rondo... maybe it's Doc's call that he's fishing for steals instead of keeping his man in front of him. I think I wouldn't mind him letting his man past him as long as -and here it is- defensive rotations can make up for his gambles.

I can guarantee it's not Doc's call.  In fact, this exact issue came up earlier, and Doc said he doesn't like the practice (See here.)  He indicated that any time you let the opposing point guard into the paint, something bad is likely to happen.  At the time, Rondo agreed, and said he was going to play more fundamental defense this year.  So much for that.
Well, this is the reason I included "maybe" :) Didn't catch that, or forgot about it. Thank god for human encyclopedia's like yourself, Roy :)

Anyway, I think he did a better job at it in some of the games. Lately, however, he's been very bad at it and continues to gamble.

Re: Improvements All Around
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2009, 12:05:43 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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About Rondo... maybe it's Doc's call that he's fishing for steals instead of keeping his man in front of him. I think I wouldn't mind him letting his man past him as long as -and here it is- defensive rotations can make up for his gambles.

I can guarantee it's not Doc's call.  In fact, this exact issue came up earlier, and Doc said he doesn't like the practice (See here.)  He indicated that any time you let the opposing point guard into the paint, something bad is likely to happen.  At the time, Rondo agreed, and said he was going to play more fundamental defense this year.  So much for that.

  Rondo's doing a significantly better job of keeping his man in front of him this year. But if Rondo does get beat or his guy gets past him because of a pick, what then? If he swipes at the ball there's a good chance he'll knock it loose. It's a smart play. Only then half the people here will claim that he let his guy get past him on purpose to try for the steal.

  You're also using quotes based on Rondo's play last year. What I've seen from Doc, his comments about Rondo's defense is generally pretty favorable.

Just about everyone on this board has seen a lot of defensive lapses from Rondo early this year.  We've had multiple topics on the fact that he appears disinterested and lazy, going for steals instead of the fundamental play.  That's consistent with my own view, as well.

Anyway, my post was in response to the thought that maybe Doc wanted Rondo to filter guards to our big men.  I guarantee that's not the case.

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

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Re: Improvements All Around
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2009, 12:19:07 PM »

Offline pengaloo

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About Rondo... maybe it's Doc's call that he's fishing for steals instead of keeping his man in front of him. I think I wouldn't mind him letting his man past him as long as -and here it is- defensive rotations can make up for his gambles.

I can guarantee it's not Doc's call.  In fact, this exact issue came up earlier, and Doc said he doesn't like the practice (See here.)  He indicated that any time you let the opposing point guard into the paint, something bad is likely to happen.  At the time, Rondo agreed, and said he was going to play more fundamental defense this year.  So much for that.

  Rondo's doing a significantly better job of keeping his man in front of him this year. But if Rondo does get beat or his guy gets past him because of a pick, what then? If he swipes at the ball there's a good chance he'll knock it loose. It's a smart play. Only then half the people here will claim that he let his guy get past him on purpose to try for the steal.

  You're also using quotes based on Rondo's play last year. What I've seen from Doc, his comments about Rondo's defense is generally pretty favorable.
Yes, I think we need to get rid of the notion that Rondo lets his man go by with the purpose of poking the ball from behind. If a player does get by Rondo, give some credit to that player. Rondo didn't just "let" him blow by. Rondo is not a wall, and he never was. I don't think his stature and build allows him to be.

Re: Improvements All Around
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2009, 12:27:54 PM »

Offline More Banners

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Right on analysis of the C's recent play.  As he gets older, I'm not in the Ray Allen fan club anymore, though.  Certainly one of the best shooters ever to play, and now with a ring, he's a lock for the HOF, but defensively, there is reason to be concerned.  He couldn't keep Joe Johnson in front of him two years ago...  Who is our starting wing defender, then?  PP?  Not good, since he needs energy to be the #1 offensive threat (and he plays a physical game offensively, using needed energy).  Otherwise, it's all on the rotations...which are a bit lacking.  But let's be upfront:  rotations on defense make up for individual players not being able to stay in front of their man.  They're needed, of course, but still, KG or Perk stopping penetration at the rim is not Plan A.

It is becoming quite well known that the current incarnation of the C's struggles against younger, more active/energenic teams, i.e. Atlanta, last year's Bull's, who both pushed this supposed Superteam to 7.

So count me among the "trade Ray Allen's expiring contract" club to make the needed "improvements all around" (the thread).  I would hope for a defensive wing/spot up shooter with some length that is a bit younger, and other pieces for depth (I'm also in the "need backup PG" club).  PP's game would benefit, especially as the season drags on.  There may be fewer rotations for the bigs, keeping them fresher, since the on-ball defense would be stronger...everything gets better when you stop the ball.

So if Rondo's not stopping the ball...and Ray isn't quite as able to anymore...our bigs are in trouble.  Perimeter defense is critical against teams like Orlando, who run tons of plays out there.

Re: Improvements All Around
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2009, 12:36:42 PM »

Offline clover

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Yep, I don't mind seeing Ray in a good trade either.

Re: Improvements All Around
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2009, 01:25:58 PM »

Offline BballTim

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About Rondo... maybe it's Doc's call that he's fishing for steals instead of keeping his man in front of him. I think I wouldn't mind him letting his man past him as long as -and here it is- defensive rotations can make up for his gambles.

I can guarantee it's not Doc's call.  In fact, this exact issue came up earlier, and Doc said he doesn't like the practice (See here.)  He indicated that any time you let the opposing point guard into the paint, something bad is likely to happen.  At the time, Rondo agreed, and said he was going to play more fundamental defense this year.  So much for that.

  Rondo's doing a significantly better job of keeping his man in front of him this year. But if Rondo does get beat or his guy gets past him because of a pick, what then? If he swipes at the ball there's a good chance he'll knock it loose. It's a smart play. Only then half the people here will claim that he let his guy get past him on purpose to try for the steal.

  You're also using quotes based on Rondo's play last year. What I've seen from Doc, his comments about Rondo's defense is generally pretty favorable.

Just about everyone on this board has seen a lot of defensive lapses from Rondo early this year.  We've had multiple topics on the fact that he appears disinterested and lazy, going for steals instead of the fundamental play.  That's consistent with my own view, as well.

Anyway, my post was in response to the thought that maybe Doc wanted Rondo to filter guards to our big men.  I guarantee that's not the case.

  Watch any point guard in the league and you'll see numerous defensive lapses in 12 games. Trust me, it's true.

  We've played 12 games. He's holding most of the opposing pgs to at or below their averages. They're getting significantly fewer inside shots than they did last year. His assist/turnover ratio is double what he allows. In short, he's had a few bad games but he's playing generally better than he did last year when he was 2nd team all-defense.

  Will he ever be good enough for people here? I doubt it, when his game is dissected to the point that deflections he causes are discounted because sometimes the deflections go to the other team.

Re: Improvements All Around
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2009, 01:40:24 PM »

Offline SalmonAndMashedPotatoes

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To me, our top priorities are the rebounding (on defense especially, like you said) and Rondo. He must stop being so passive and waiting for his teammates to get open. At least, when he does that, he should consider attacking the hoop when nobody gets free because he always makes the pass and this results in nothing.

I'm pretty sure what you characterize as 'passive' is all part of Doc's game plan to funnel the ball to the Big 3 at the expense of often under-utilizing Rondo's strengths. 

Check out this quote from Rondo after Wednesday's game, describing what changed in the 2nd half:

Quote
We started calling plays for me in the pick-and-roll," Rondo said. "Sometimes when they switch, they'd show and get back. We tried to keep mixing it up with the play call and just get to the rim.

from http://espn.go.com/boston/columns/celtics/blog/_/post/4669562/name/forsberg

I admit, I sometimes have wondered if it was Rondo being 'passive' or Doc taking the ball out his hands.  This quote pretty much seals it, IMO. 

Doc, though he played point guard himself, wasn't actually a pure point--he was a combo guard with good handles and high IQ.  To him, he doesn't see the necessity of having a pure point, so much so that his offense is designed to run with or without a real point guard.  That's fine if you don't have a point.  But if you do, if you have one of the purest and most talented in the league, it's a huge waste of resources.

See, Doc would rather give iso opportunities throughout the course of the game to Ray or Paul, or put KG in pick-and-roll opportunities with Ray/Paul, than he would simply feed Rondo a high screen and let him penetrate and kick or score himself.  Wednesday's game was a classic example of this.  In the first half, we ran our 'offense'--that is, Rondo initiated offense (or House, for that matter) and then spotted up in the corner while Ray/Paul and KG played their two-man game.  In the 2nd half, we ran a high screen for Rondo about 80 percent of the time, resulting in about 12 points and 4 assists for Rajon, and a 31-19 advantage on the scoreboard. 

It's pretty clear to me that Rondo is at his best with the ball in his hands--he's our best decision maker, best ball handler, quickest transition player and best penetrator.  Yet, game after game, Rondo is reduced by our coach into a ball caddy for the Big 3. 

It's not a question of attacking the rim, it's a question of whether Doc is calling for high picks.  If he is, we'll see what we saw in the 2nd half on Wednesday.  If not, we'll get what we got in the 1st half.

The thing is, not only are we 'wasting' what Rondo could bring us, we're also running Ray/Paul into the ground asking them to carry more of the burden than they have to.  With Rondo on this team, they should be simply focused on scoring--yet our offense funnels them creation responsibilities while rendering our poor shooting pure point into a spot up shooter.  Not only is it a mismanagement of resources on the starting unit, but Doc often compounds the problem further by using Ray/Paul as the 2nd unit bridge, further over-extending Ray/Paul while limiting the potential of our 2nd unit, since it is left without a real point guard. 

Bottom line: putting the ball in Rondo's hands, giving him a high screen on pretty much every possession is good for EVERYBODY, both in terms of offensive efficiency and maximizing the minutes of the Big 3.  And when we don't do that, it's not Rondo being passive, it's Rondo doing what Doc wants.
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