Rondo needs to play better D in a hurry

[BballTim]

Why anyone would defend a lack of effort is beyond me. Everyone lit up POB because he didn't play with the focus and effort that he was capable of. Rondo however gets excused. Maybe he's hurt, it's the scheme, blah blah blah. The guy is a lazy defender who only wants the quick steal. He has no defensive heart whatsoever. Sadly he has the quickness, athleticism, and physique (arm length and strength) to be one of the best on that side of the ball but instead chooses to be poor to mediocre. I don't respect that one bit and if you look back I have been saying this since he started getting playing time. THAT's when Doc should have solved the problem. No defense, not PT.

  But you're positive it can't be the schemes, right?

  Whenever people complain about Rondo's shooting they talk about how other teams sag off of him to cheat towards other players. But when Rondo's not on top of his man it's laziness or disinterest. Isn't it possible that we employ some of the same defensive tactics that the other 29 teams use regularly? Are we all positive that Doc pulls Rondo aside and says "I want to see you stuck to your man like glue and I want you to stay away from those passing lanes"? Did we get to be the best defense in the league by employing the strrategy that Rondo's to receive no help whatsoever on picks?

[xmuscularghandix]

Why anyone would defend a lack of effort is beyond me. Everyone lit up POB because he didn't play with the focus and effort that he was capable of. Rondo however gets excused. Maybe he's hurt, it's the scheme, blah blah blah. The guy is a lazy defender who only wants the quick steal. He has no defensive heart whatsoever. Sadly he has the quickness, athleticism, and physique (arm length and strength) to be one of the best on that side of the ball but instead chooses to be poor to mediocre. I don't respect that one bit and if you look back I have been saying this since he started getting playing time. THAT's when Doc should have solved the problem. No defense, not PT.

  But you're positive it can't be the schemes, right?

  Whenever people complain about Rondo's shooting they talk about how other teams sag off of him to cheat towards other players. But when Rondo's not on top of his man it's laziness or disinterest. Isn't it possible that we employ some of the same defensive tactics that the other 29 teams use regularly? Are we all positive that Doc pulls Rondo aside and says "I want to see you stuck to your man like glue and I want you to stay away from those passing lanes"? Did we get to be the best defense in the league by employing the strategy that Rondo's to receive no help whatsoever on picks?

Average players are blowing by him, how can you explain that one anything else? He's putting his back line in bad situations but just settling on the reach from behind.

[crownsy]

Why anyone would defend a lack of effort is beyond me. Everyone lit up POB because he didn't play with the focus and effort that he was capable of. Rondo however gets excused. Maybe he's hurt, it's the scheme, blah blah blah. The guy is a lazy defender who only wants the quick steal. He has no defensive heart whatsoever. Sadly he has the quickness, athleticism, and physique (arm length and strength) to be one of the best on that side of the ball but instead chooses to be poor to mediocre. I don't respect that one bit and if you look back I have been saying this since he started getting playing time. THAT's when Doc should have solved the problem. No defense, not PT.

  But you're positive it can't be the schemes, right?

  Whenever people complain about Rondo's shooting they talk about how other teams sag off of him to cheat towards other players. But when Rondo's not on top of his man it's laziness or disinterest. Isn't it possible that we employ some of the same defensive tactics that the other 29 teams use regularly? Are we all positive that Doc pulls Rondo aside and says "I want to see you stuck to your man like glue and I want you to stay away from those passing lanes"? Did we get to be the best defense in the league by employing the strategy that Rondo's to receive no help whatsoever on picks?

Average players are blowing by him, how can you explain that one anything else? He's putting his back line in bad situations but just settling on the reach from behind.

If all these players blowing by him are so average, can you go ahead and name me the lock down PG's around the league that have kept them out of the paint at all times by comparison?

People need to face facts, nowhere, no even at kentucky, has rondo EVER displayed anything above average skills at keeping a man in front of him.

Quickness is NOT the be all and end all of being able to keep a man in front of you. There have been plenty of extremely quick PG's who can't do it, and plenty of slow ones who can. speed is a factor, but so is fighting through picks, understanding angles, footwork, lateral speed, ect.

Just because rondo is fast does not mean he's a good on the ball defender. He's a good team defender, has extremely quick hands, and can full court press effectively.

At no level has he EVER shown he's this lock down one on one defender the board seems to think he is. you can't deviate from something you never were.

[EJPLAYA]

Why anyone would defend a lack of effort is beyond me. Everyone lit up POB because he didn't play with the focus and effort that he was capable of. Rondo however gets excused. Maybe he's hurt, it's the scheme, blah blah blah. The guy is a lazy defender who only wants the quick steal. He has no defensive heart whatsoever. Sadly he has the quickness, athleticism, and physique (arm length and strength) to be one of the best on that side of the ball but instead chooses to be poor to mediocre. I don't respect that one bit and if you look back I have been saying this since he started getting playing time. THAT's when Doc should have solved the problem. No defense, not PT.

  But you're positive it can't be the schemes, right?

  Whenever people complain about Rondo's shooting they talk about how other teams sag off of him to cheat towards other players. But when Rondo's not on top of his man it's laziness or disinterest. Isn't it possible that we employ some of the same defensive tactics that the other 29 teams use regularly? Are we all positive that Doc pulls Rondo aside and says "I want to see you stuck to your man like glue and I want you to stay away from those passing lanes"? Did we get to be the best defense in the league by employing the strrategy that Rondo's to receive no help whatsoever on picks?

Exactly. Thibs drew up a defensive scheme where Rondo was asked to sag off of Monte Ellis and Stephen Curry and dare them to shoot the outside shot because they are such horrid shooters. Hey, it works against Rondo so why not against a couple of garbage shooters like those two?!

Nonsense. Defense and moving your feet to keep in front of your man is about want to. Nothing more. He has the quickness and physical tools to do it and if he doesn't its about him not wanting to put in the effort on that end of the floor. Look at what Ray and PP became after buying into the defensive philosophy. They went from poor man on defenders to sold ones just solely based on effort. Both of them do a thousand times better job guarding their man one on one than Rondo and they both have OLD legs. Rondo should be ashamed of himself. He was given that contract based on potential and upside and it is clear he is content being the lazy defender that sometimes shows up offensively. The worst thing we could have done for that kid if we wanted #18 was to give him that contract.

[BballTim]

Why anyone would defend a lack of effort is beyond me. Everyone lit up POB because he didn't play with the focus and effort that he was capable of. Rondo however gets excused. Maybe he's hurt, it's the scheme, blah blah blah. The guy is a lazy defender who only wants the quick steal. He has no defensive heart whatsoever. Sadly he has the quickness, athleticism, and physique (arm length and strength) to be one of the best on that side of the ball but instead chooses to be poor to mediocre. I don't respect that one bit and if you look back I have been saying this since he started getting playing time. THAT's when Doc should have solved the problem. No defense, not PT.

  But you're positive it can't be the schemes, right?

  Whenever people complain about Rondo's shooting they talk about how other teams sag off of him to cheat towards other players. But when Rondo's not on top of his man it's laziness or disinterest. Isn't it possible that we employ some of the same defensive tactics that the other 29 teams use regularly? Are we all positive that Doc pulls Rondo aside and says "I want to see you stuck to your man like glue and I want you to stay away from those passing lanes"? Did we get to be the best defense in the league by employing the strrategy that Rondo's to receive no help whatsoever on picks?

Exactly. Thibs drew up a defensive scheme where Rondo was asked to sag off of Monte Ellis and Stephen Curry and dare them to shoot the outside shot because they are such horrid shooters. Hey, it works against Rondo so why not against a couple of garbage shooters like those two?!

  Ellis and Curry were a combined 12-31 from the field including 1-5 on threes. Ellis, by the way, isn't the best outside shooter in the league. He's not much better than Rondo.

Nonsense. Defense and moving your feet to keep in front of your man is about want to. Nothing more. He has the quickness and physical tools to do it and if he doesn't its about him not wanting to put in the effort on that end of the floor. Look at what Ray and PP became after buying into the defensive philosophy. They went from poor man on defenders to sold ones just solely based on effort. Both of them do a thousand times better job guarding their man one on one than Rondo and they both have OLD legs. Rondo should be ashamed of himself. He was given that contract based on potential and upside and it is clear he is content being the lazy defender that sometimes shows up offensively. The worst thing we could have done for that kid if we wanted #18 was to give him that contract.

  Just for a point of reference Rondo gets about 2.5 times as many inside shots as opposing pgs so, according to you, he "wants it" much more than the average pg. And which of those brilliant defenders, Pierce or Allen, was locking down Maggette last night?

[RockinRyA]

the thing that bothers me is, before he signed the contract he was making an effort to stay in front of his man and take less gamble.

[GreenFaith1819]

I just did a comparison of Rondo vs the top PGs in the league, via NBA.com player comparison.

Against Arenas, he has him beat in assists and steals by a wide margin. Gilbert is scoring a whole lot more, but he is a focal point of the offense, probably the 1st option. Rondo's free throws are atrocious compared to Arenas (and just about everyone else I compared him to).

Against D Williams, he is nearly identical in assists. D Will has him beat by about an avg of 1 reb. Rondo is way ahead of him in steals. Rondo is not far at all behind DWill in 3pt accuracy, which I found surprising (0.294 for DWill to 0.200 for Rondo). As with Arenas, DWill is a focal pt of the offense in Utah so he averages a lot more pts than Rondo, but Rondo shoots a higher % than him.

VS Chris Paul, again Rondo avgs only half the pts, but on NOH Chris is a focal pt of the offense. He nearly matches Paul in Assists and rebounds. Rondo is far ahead in steals, as with every other player I compared him with here. Their FG %'s are nearly identical (around 0.590). Chris blows him away in 3pt %.

So the point I make is that like most of you in this thread I want more effort from Rondo on keeping his man in front of him. But If I was able to watch DWill, Arenas and CP3 I wonder if they are doing any better defensively, as far as keeping their opponents in front?

And Rondo has ALL of these guys beat by a WIDE margin in Steals, a staple of defense.

So is he really that bad defensively when we take a hard look at everyone else?

[jambr380]

I just did a comparison of Rondo vs the top PGs in the league, via NBA.com player comparison.

Against Arenas, he has him beat in assists and steals by a wide margin. Gilbert is scoring a whole lot more, but he is a focal point of the offense, probably the 1st option. Rondo's free throws are atrocious compared to Arenas (and just about everyone else I compared him to).

Against D Williams, he is nearly identical in assists. D Will has him beat by about an avg of 1 reb. Rondo is way ahead of him in steals. Rondo is not far at all behind DWill in 3pt accuracy, which I found surprising (0.294 for DWill to 0.200 for Rondo). As with Arenas, DWill is a focal pt of the offense in Utah so he averages a lot more pts than Rondo, but Rondo shoots a higher % than him.

VS Chris Paul, again Rondo avgs only half the pts, but on NOH Chris is a focal pt of the offense. He nearly matches Paul in Assists and rebounds. Rondo is far ahead in steals, as with every other player I compared him with here. Their FG %'s are nearly identical (around 0.590). Chris blows him away in 3pt %.

So the point I make is that like most of you in this thread I want more effort from Rondo on keeping his man in front of him. But If I was able to watch DWill, Arenas and CP3 I wonder if they are doing any better defensively, as far as keeping their opponents in front?

And Rondo has ALL of these guys beat by a WIDE margin in Steals, a staple of defense.

So is he really that bad defensively when we take a hard look at everyone else?

I like your comparison, but everybody is going to say that steals aren't a 'staple of defense' (or blocks when you are talking about a guy like Camby). Basically, I think everyone is freaking out and I can't really figure out why. Is it really the contract? Rondo has showed his worth here. There is no reason to think he is just going to suddenly be horrible and lazy...and yes, his free throw shooting will get better.

Don't worry guys- Rondo and the Celtics will be just fine...

[Rondo_is_better]

...Or else you're going to bench him? Yeah, Use you're authority!

[EJPLAYA]

Why anyone would defend a lack of effort is beyond me. Everyone lit up POB because he didn't play with the focus and effort that he was capable of. Rondo however gets excused. Maybe he's hurt, it's the scheme, blah blah blah. The guy is a lazy defender who only wants the quick steal. He has no defensive heart whatsoever. Sadly he has the quickness, athleticism, and physique (arm length and strength) to be one of the best on that side of the ball but instead chooses to be poor to mediocre. I don't respect that one bit and if you look back I have been saying this since he started getting playing time. THAT's when Doc should have solved the problem. No defense, not PT.

  But you're positive it can't be the schemes, right?

  Whenever people complain about Rondo's shooting they talk about how other teams sag off of him to cheat towards other players. But when Rondo's not on top of his man it's laziness or disinterest. Isn't it possible that we employ some of the same defensive tactics that the other 29 teams use regularly? Are we all positive that Doc pulls Rondo aside and says "I want to see you stuck to your man like glue and I want you to stay away from those passing lanes"? Did we get to be the best defense in the league by employing the strrategy that Rondo's to receive no help whatsoever on picks?

Exactly. Thibs drew up a defensive scheme where Rondo was asked to sag off of Monte Ellis and Stephen Curry and dare them to shoot the outside shot because they are such horrid shooters. Hey, it works against Rondo so why not against a couple of garbage shooters like those two?!

  Ellis and Curry were a combined 12-31 from the field including 1-5 on threes. Ellis, by the way, isn't the best outside shooter in the league. He's not much better than Rondo.

Nonsense. Defense and moving your feet to keep in front of your man is about want to. Nothing more. He has the quickness and physical tools to do it and if he doesn't its about him not wanting to put in the effort on that end of the floor. Look at what Ray and PP became after buying into the defensive philosophy. They went from poor man on defenders to sold ones just solely based on effort. Both of them do a thousand times better job guarding their man one on one than Rondo and they both have OLD legs. Rondo should be ashamed of himself. He was given that contract based on potential and upside and it is clear he is content being the lazy defender that sometimes shows up offensively. The worst thing we could have done for that kid if we wanted #18 was to give him that contract.

  Just for a point of reference Rondo gets about 2.5 times as many inside shots as opposing pgs so, according to you, he "wants it" much more than the average pg. And which of those brilliant defenders, Pierce or Allen, was locking down Maggette last night?

WHAT?!?! Come on now. No one honestly believes on here, including you, that Ellis isn't that much better of a shooter than Rondo. Be serious.

As far as his offense, I didn't discuss his offense other than to say he was very aggressive going to the rim last night like he ought to do all the time. This thread isn't about his offense or assists like the stats post close here is making a big deal of. I don't have an issue there. It's about his lazy effortless defense. That is what is keeping him from being an all star and us a much better defensive team.

As far as Maggette goes, he was shooting outside shots last night because they were keeping him in front of them defensively. Had you watched the game, or bothered to look at the shot charts you'd know that. He had ONE shot made inside. The rest were 15-20 footers. Most were contested. That's all I want out of Rondo.

[BballTim]

Why anyone would defend a lack of effort is beyond me. Everyone lit up POB because he didn't play with the focus and effort that he was capable of. Rondo however gets excused. Maybe he's hurt, it's the scheme, blah blah blah. The guy is a lazy defender who only wants the quick steal. He has no defensive heart whatsoever. Sadly he has the quickness, athleticism, and physique (arm length and strength) to be one of the best on that side of the ball but instead chooses to be poor to mediocre. I don't respect that one bit and if you look back I have been saying this since he started getting playing time. THAT's when Doc should have solved the problem. No defense, not PT.

  But you're positive it can't be the schemes, right?

  Whenever people complain about Rondo's shooting they talk about how other teams sag off of him to cheat towards other players. But when Rondo's not on top of his man it's laziness or disinterest. Isn't it possible that we employ some of the same defensive tactics that the other 29 teams use regularly? Are we all positive that Doc pulls Rondo aside and says "I want to see you stuck to your man like glue and I want you to stay away from those passing lanes"? Did we get to be the best defense in the league by employing the strrategy that Rondo's to receive no help whatsoever on picks?

Exactly. Thibs drew up a defensive scheme where Rondo was asked to sag off of Monte Ellis and Stephen Curry and dare them to shoot the outside shot because they are such horrid shooters. Hey, it works against Rondo so why not against a couple of garbage shooters like those two?!

  Ellis and Curry were a combined 12-31 from the field including 1-5 on threes. Ellis, by the way, isn't the best outside shooter in the league. He's not much better than Rondo.

Nonsense. Defense and moving your feet to keep in front of your man is about want to. Nothing more. He has the quickness and physical tools to do it and if he doesn't its about him not wanting to put in the effort on that end of the floor. Look at what Ray and PP became after buying into the defensive philosophy. They went from poor man on defenders to sold ones just solely based on effort. Both of them do a thousand times better job guarding their man one on one than Rondo and they both have OLD legs. Rondo should be ashamed of himself. He was given that contract based on potential and upside and it is clear he is content being the lazy defender that sometimes shows up offensively. The worst thing we could have done for that kid if we wanted #18 was to give him that contract.

  Just for a point of reference Rondo gets about 2.5 times as many inside shots as opposing pgs so, according to you, he "wants it" much more than the average pg. And which of those brilliant defenders, Pierce or Allen, was locking down Maggette last night?

WHAT?!?! Come on now. No one honestly believes on here, including you, that Ellis isn't that much better of a shooter than Rondo. Be serious.

  In the last 3 years Monta's eFG% on jumpshots was 43%, 38% and 39%. Rondo, in the last 3 years, was 42%, 38% and 37%. Looks pretty close to me.

As far as his offense, I didn't discuss his offense other than to say he was very aggressive going to the rim last night like he ought to do all the time. This thread isn't about his offense or assists like the stats post close here is making a big deal of. I don't have an issue there. It's about his lazy effortless defense. That is what is keeping him from being an all star and us a much better defensive team.

  No, what you said was "Defense and moving your feet to keep in front of your man is about want to. Nothing more." Was that for all nba players, or just for Rondo? Because, by your standards, if they don't keep Rondo in front of them they must not want to. Since Rondo does a much better job of keeping his man in front of him that his opponents do it seems reasonable to assume that he "wants it" more than they do.

As far as Maggette goes, he was shooting outside shots last night because they were keeping him in front of them defensively. Had you watched the game, or bothered to look at the shot charts you'd know that. He had ONE shot made inside. The rest were 15-20 footers. Most were contested. That's all I want out of Rondo.

  Sorry, but what you said was they were much better defenders than Rondo (actually a thousand times better). You didn't say they were only better at keeping their men in front of them. But fine. According to 82games Paul and Ray's opponents take 21% of their shots from the inside. Rondo's opponents take 18% of their shots from the inside. I guess the reason they let their opponents get to the inside more often is because they have less "want to" than Rondo has?

[EJPLAYA]

Why anyone would defend a lack of effort is beyond me. Everyone lit up POB because he didn't play with the focus and effort that he was capable of. Rondo however gets excused. Maybe he's hurt, it's the scheme, blah blah blah. The guy is a lazy defender who only wants the quick steal. He has no defensive heart whatsoever. Sadly he has the quickness, athleticism, and physique (arm length and strength) to be one of the best on that side of the ball but instead chooses to be poor to mediocre. I don't respect that one bit and if you look back I have been saying this since he started getting playing time. THAT's when Doc should have solved the problem. No defense, not PT.

  But you're positive it can't be the schemes, right?

  Whenever people complain about Rondo's shooting they talk about how other teams sag off of him to cheat towards other players. But when Rondo's not on top of his man it's laziness or disinterest. Isn't it possible that we employ some of the same defensive tactics that the other 29 teams use regularly? Are we all positive that Doc pulls Rondo aside and says "I want to see you stuck to your man like glue and I want you to stay away from those passing lanes"? Did we get to be the best defense in the league by employing the strrategy that Rondo's to receive no help whatsoever on picks?

Exactly. Thibs drew up a defensive scheme where Rondo was asked to sag off of Monte Ellis and Stephen Curry and dare them to shoot the outside shot because they are such horrid shooters. Hey, it works against Rondo so why not against a couple of garbage shooters like those two?!

  Ellis and Curry were a combined 12-31 from the field including 1-5 on threes. Ellis, by the way, isn't the best outside shooter in the league. He's not much better than Rondo.

Nonsense. Defense and moving your feet to keep in front of your man is about want to. Nothing more. He has the quickness and physical tools to do it and if he doesn't its about him not wanting to put in the effort on that end of the floor. Look at what Ray and PP became after buying into the defensive philosophy. They went from poor man on defenders to sold ones just solely based on effort. Both of them do a thousand times better job guarding their man one on one than Rondo and they both have OLD legs. Rondo should be ashamed of himself. He was given that contract based on potential and upside and it is clear he is content being the lazy defender that sometimes shows up offensively. The worst thing we could have done for that kid if we wanted #18 was to give him that contract.

  Just for a point of reference Rondo gets about 2.5 times as many inside shots as opposing pgs so, according to you, he "wants it" much more than the average pg. And which of those brilliant defenders, Pierce or Allen, was locking down Maggette last night?

WHAT?!?! Come on now. No one honestly believes on here, including you, that Ellis isn't that much better of a shooter than Rondo. Be serious.

  In the last 3 years Monta's eFG% on jumpshots was 43%, 38% and 39%. Rondo, in the last 3 years, was 42%, 38% and 37%. Looks pretty close to me.

As far as his offense, I didn't discuss his offense other than to say he was very aggressive going to the rim last night like he ought to do all the time. This thread isn't about his offense or assists like the stats post close here is making a big deal of. I don't have an issue there. It's about his lazy effortless defense. That is what is keeping him from being an all star and us a much better defensive team.

  No, what you said was "Defense and moving your feet to keep in front of your man is about want to. Nothing more." Was that for all nba players, or just for Rondo? Because, by your standards, if they don't keep Rondo in front of them they must not want to. Since Rondo does a much better job of keeping his man in front of him that his opponents do it seems reasonable to assume that he "wants it" more than they do.

As far as Maggette goes, he was shooting outside shots last night because they were keeping him in front of them defensively. Had you watched the game, or bothered to look at the shot charts you'd know that. He had ONE shot made inside. The rest were 15-20 footers. Most were contested. That's all I want out of Rondo.

  Sorry, but what you said was they were much better defenders than Rondo (actually a thousand times better). You didn't say they were only better at keeping their men in front of them. But fine. According to 82games Paul and Ray's opponents take 21% of their shots from the inside. Rondo's opponents take 18% of their shots from the inside. I guess the reason they let their opponents get to the inside more often is because they have less "want to" than Rondo has?

What a complete twisting of information BBALL TIM! Most importantly Ray and PP HAVE done a much better job keeping their men in front of them. Not even debatable! AND they are 10+ years older than Rondo. Would you use those same misleading stats against Perk. HIS opponents shoot an even higher rate of inside shots vs. Rondo's guys. Considering his man is the point guard who usually doesn't even enter the paint that is a ridiculously high %.

You can't make Rondo's defense out to be anything other than lazy. Be serious. He just doesn't care about anything but the occasional steal and offense.

[BballTim]

What a complete twisting of information BBALL TIM! Most importantly Ray and PP HAVE done a much better job keeping their men in front of them. Not even debatable! AND they are 10+ years older than Rondo. Would you use those same misleading stats against Perk. HIS opponents shoot an even higher rate of inside shots vs. Rondo's guys. Considering his man is the point guard who usually doesn't even enter the paint that is a ridiculously high %.

You can't make Rondo's defense out to be anything other than lazy. Be serious. He just doesn't care about anything but the occasional steal and offense.

  Sorry, but I disagree. The thing is, it's a little hard to show. But try this if you can. Go to 82games.com. Click on "prior seasons" to get to the 2008-2009 season (since it's a full season and not a small sample size). Start randomly clicking on teams. When you click on a team, on the left they have "Team Stats". At the bottom of that column they have "production by Position". Click on that.

  They have a table called "Opponent Production by Position" which has % of inside shots for pg, sg, sf, pf and c. Look at enough teams to convince yourself that the number of inside shots for pgs is at least as high as it is for sg and sf if not a little higher. What does that tell you? For the average team, point guards take as many inside shots as wing players. Rondo gives up fewer inside shots than Paul or Ray even though the average pg takes as many or more than the average wing. This means that Rondo is BETTER than they are (so far this year) at keeping his man in front of him.

  Based on the dozen or so teams that I checked the average pg takes about 27-28% of his shots from the inside, which is what Rondo allowed last year. Right now he's allowing 18%, which is like a 35% improvement. You can say I'm twisting stats. But I don't think I am. According to 82games when Paul plays opposing SFs take 3.6 inside shots in 48 minutes. When Ray plays it's 3.3 per 48 for opposing SGs. When Rondo plays it's 2.6 inside shots per 48 minutes for opposing PGs.
 

[EJPLAYA]

What a complete twisting of information BBALL TIM! Most importantly Ray and PP HAVE done a much better job keeping their men in front of them. Not even debatable! AND they are 10+ years older than Rondo. Would you use those same misleading stats against Perk. HIS opponents shoot an even higher rate of inside shots vs. Rondo's guys. Considering his man is the point guard who usually doesn't even enter the paint that is a ridiculously high %.

You can't make Rondo's defense out to be anything other than lazy. Be serious. He just doesn't care about anything but the occasional steal and offense.

  Sorry, but I disagree. The thing is, it's a little hard to show. But try this if you can. Go to 82games.com. Click on "prior seasons" to get to the 2008-2009 season (since it's a full season and not a small sample size). Start randomly clicking on teams. When you click on a team, on the left they have "Team Stats". At the bottom of that column they have "production by Position". Click on that.

  They have a table called "Opponent Production by Position" which has % of inside shots for pg, sg, sf, pf and c. Look at enough teams to convince yourself that the number of inside shots for pgs is at least as high as it is for sg and sf if not a little higher. What does that tell you? For the average team, point guards take as many inside shots as wing players. Rondo gives up fewer inside shots than Paul or Ray even though the average pg takes as many or more than the average wing. This means that Rondo is BETTER than they are (so far this year) at keeping his man in front of him.

  Based on the dozen or so teams that I checked the average pg takes about 27-28% of his shots from the inside, which is what Rondo allowed last year. Right now he's allowing 18%, which is like a 35% improvement. You can say I'm twisting stats. But I don't think I am. According to 82games when Paul plays opposing SFs take 3.6 inside shots in 48 minutes. When Ray plays it's 3.3 per 48 for opposing SGs. When Rondo plays it's 2.6 inside shots per 48 minutes for opposing PGs.
 

You can't compare Rondo to PP and Ray though because they play at different positions. Their guys are going to naturally take more shots inside than a PG. As far as Rondo's % I would argue that this can be much more attributed to the fact that he has Perk and KG back there waiting for his man which deters some of these shots. Rather than playing the meaningless and most of the time misleading stat game lets be honest about what you are seeing out of your own eyes and that is Rondo letting his man blow past him and trying to poke it out from behind. That's not even debatable! He chooses to play this defense and what it causes is for the bigs to have to rotate to his guy. They either dish it off to Perk or KG's now wide open man for an easy bucket, kick it out to a three point shooter for a wide open look, or throw up a tough shot over Perk or KG and their man cleans up the boards.

We are having a tough time because teams are shooting wide open 3's, and getting easy put backs  when our bigs rotate. I blame much of this on Rondo's lack of effort keeping in front of his man, rotating to the open shooter, or trying to fight through picks. Watch it closely for a few games and then go back to your stats.

TP to you for the nice dialogue though! Love trading ideas with you BBALL TIM. Even when you are wrong. 

[BballTim]

What a complete twisting of information BBALL TIM! Most importantly Ray and PP HAVE done a much better job keeping their men in front of them. Not even debatable! AND they are 10+ years older than Rondo. Would you use those same misleading stats against Perk. HIS opponents shoot an even higher rate of inside shots vs. Rondo's guys. Considering his man is the point guard who usually doesn't even enter the paint that is a ridiculously high %.

You can't make Rondo's defense out to be anything other than lazy. Be serious. He just doesn't care about anything but the occasional steal and offense.

  Sorry, but I disagree. The thing is, it's a little hard to show. But try this if you can. Go to 82games.com. Click on "prior seasons" to get to the 2008-2009 season (since it's a full season and not a small sample size). Start randomly clicking on teams. When you click on a team, on the left they have "Team Stats". At the bottom of that column they have "production by Position". Click on that.

  They have a table called "Opponent Production by Position" which has % of inside shots for pg, sg, sf, pf and c. Look at enough teams to convince yourself that the number of inside shots for pgs is at least as high as it is for sg and sf if not a little higher. What does that tell you? For the average team, point guards take as many inside shots as wing players. Rondo gives up fewer inside shots than Paul or Ray even though the average pg takes as many or more than the average wing. This means that Rondo is BETTER than they are (so far this year) at keeping his man in front of him.

  Based on the dozen or so teams that I checked the average pg takes about 27-28% of his shots from the inside, which is what Rondo allowed last year. Right now he's allowing 18%, which is like a 35% improvement. You can say I'm twisting stats. But I don't think I am. According to 82games when Paul plays opposing SFs take 3.6 inside shots in 48 minutes. When Ray plays it's 3.3 per 48 for opposing SGs. When Rondo plays it's 2.6 inside shots per 48 minutes for opposing PGs.
 

You can't compare Rondo to PP and Ray though because they play at different positions. Their guys are going to naturally take more shots inside than a PG. As far as Rondo's % I would argue that this can be much more attributed to the fact that he has Perk and KG back there waiting for his man which deters some of these shots. Rather than playing the meaningless and most of the time misleading stat game lets be honest about what you are seeing out of your own eyes and that is Rondo letting his man blow past him and trying to poke it out from behind. That's not even debatable! He chooses to play this defense and what it causes is for the bigs to have to rotate to his guy. They either dish it off to Perk or KG's now wide open man for an easy bucket, kick it out to a three point shooter for a wide open look, or throw up a tough shot over Perk or KG and their man cleans up the boards.

We are having a tough time because teams are shooting wide open 3's, and getting easy put backs  when our bigs rotate. I blame much of this on Rondo's lack of effort keeping in front of his man, rotating to the open shooter, or trying to fight through picks. Watch it closely for a few games and then go back to your stats.

TP to you for the nice dialogue though! Love trading ideas with you BBALL TIM. Even when you are wrong. 

  I know they play different positions. That's why I was comparing Rondo to PGs, Ray to SGs, and Paul to SFs. Again, if you look at the numbers you'll see that it's not true that wings naturally take more inside shots that point guards. Also, why would Perk and KG deter point guards from shots and not shooting guards or small forwards?

  But, really, you're right, the whole Ray and Paul vs Rondo is red herring because they play different positions. I should be able to see it with point guards though right? I should be able to watch the opposing point guard keep Rondo in front of him and then blow past Rondo on the other end. I should also be able to turn on random nba games and see point guards that do a better job of keeping the other pg out fo the lane than Rondo does, right?

  By the way, when I'm watching Rondo play, what should I be looking for from the other players when there's a pick on Rondo? Should someone switch onto the pg after the pick? Should the player guarding the guy who sets the pick try and slow down the penetration? Or should they do nothing and expect Rondo to fight through or go around the pick and get back in front of his man during the time it takes the other pg to take 2-3 steps and get into the lane?

  When I hear "fight through the pick" I think more of someone chasing Ray Allen or Reggie Miller around the perimeter or across the baseline. It's not always in terms of getting back in front of a pg when he cuts around the pick and heads straight to the basket. Or, is that something I'll see all the other pgs doing as well?