Cleveland vs Miami / Phoenix vs Los Angeles Doubleheader game thread 11/12

[Bahku]

Charles Barkley (very serious): "Is cauliflower a vegetable?" ... wow. He is constantly reminding me of a favorite saying of my Dad's, (and one I am always quoting but not following myself): It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

[Who]

Varejao last season

• @PF -- 16.2 PER and an opposing PER of 18.4
• @C -- 17.6 PER and an opposing PER of 16.7

By the lineups, the Cavs conceded slightly more points while scoring a lot more while Varejao was at center versus power forward.

The Dwight Howard complaint is based on one individual rather than a wide-standing problem at the position (few centers pose the physical problems that Dwight does, or have enough offensive skill to change the course of a game) ... and you can make the exact same criticism of how Varejao defends players like Rashard Lewis.

Anderson Varejao isn't a shot blocker but you don't need to be that to be an effective center. He's an excellent positional defender, an excellent screen and roll defender, and a very good post defender. When he's at center the Cavs do a very good-to-excellent job of keeping the ball in front of the defense (limiting penetration) and forcing contested shots. They also do a much better job of defending in transition.

Offensively, Varejao is more effective when the paint is open. That won't happen while Shaq is on the floor but can happen when playing alongside Big Z or playing as the center. So he needs to come off the bench and his time needs to be limited alongside Shaq in order to get quality offensive contributions from Varejao.

[Bahku]

I think Hickson has to start at this stage. I just don't see the Varejao/Shaq combination + 48 minutes of slow footed defensive centers working out well enough for the Cavs.

A Shaquille O'Neal and Anderson Varejao one-two punch at center gives the Cavs far more flexibility defensively in matching up against different types of teams. Against squads who have bigs who like to step out, against teams who run a lot of pick and rolls, and/or against teams who push the tempo.

Ilgauskas and Shaq can't play alongside one another either so that leaves Hickson or LeBron as the only viable options. Going with Hickson over LeBron, while trading Big Z, doesn't change anything in the end game. If it works out Hickson is the starting PF and LeBron is the fourth big. If it doesn't, then LeBron is the starter and Hickson is the fourth big in the rotation. In either scenario the Cavs will need another quality wing player to take the load off Bron while at the PF while adding some additional talent to the side.

Personally, I think Hickson will work out well enough to start him. His jump shot looked very smooth during the preseason games I saw him play and I think with regular minutes as a starter you'll see that consistently as the season goes on. But, even if it doesn't, I don't think that changes the plan for Cleveland.

I just don't see the chemistry developing for the Cavs while playing 48 minutes of Shaq + Ilgauskas + another 30 minutes of Varejao. And on top of that, having all the offensive problems which they clearly still have. They need more quickness, mobility, shooting and another quality perimeter player who can make plays.

Yeah, they definitely need more quickness, and the way they've been going is in the opposite direction. They are one of the biggest and slowest teams in the NBA, and it shows up as their largest problem, really. That was why the Shaq add was such a surprise to me, as I thought, if anything, they'd be going smaller and quicker.

[Who]

Gah, quick summary ... two thoughts:

(1) I think the Cavs need to keep starting Hickson alongside Shaq. He should play a role akin to Dahntay Jones on the Nuggets last season. Not as much for his defense, but as a glue guy for the starting unit. Someone who will create better balance. The Cavs should then use Varejao as their first big off the bench and play him comparable minutes to Shaq or perhaps more (while limiting his minutes alongside Shaq). And then play Big Z the leftovers (10-22 minutes a night) which will depend on how much JJ Hickson is playing.

(2) But I think they'd be better off sitting Big Z altogether and then trying to trade his large expiring contract for a quality wing player and have LeBron play the fourth string minutes while also increasing JJ Hickson's minutes as a starter.

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After seeing the Varejao, Shaq and Ilgauskas trio play alongside one another for five games or so now I'm just not convinced that they're going to be effective enough as a grouping to give Cleveland a large enough contribution in the paint. There's just too many issues (I don't think Z will be nearly as effective as a bench player). I think they need to make some changes.

They need a certain type of big man (athletic, perimeter orientated, defensively capable) and I don't see anyone available for what they have to offer. Hence, I think Hickson + LeBron at PF is their best option while trying to add talent on the perimeter (wing) instead.

Side Note: The minutes I have for LeBron aren't that different from the minutes he played at PF last season (25% of his court time) or has played this season (20%). 8-10 minutes of LeBron's 38 or so minutes is in that ball park.

[colincb]

Hickson has been brutal so far this season until he got a bunch of easy points tonight. 14 of his points were deep in the paint.

I don't see how the Cavs match up well vs BOS or LA or ORL with their current set of big men. Getting rid of Z doesn't fix it unless they can find some GM willing to dump a big man for his expiring contract. Eddie Curry's available however.


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Otherwise we saw 2 teams lose tonight that are soft in the middle. On top of that, PHX was fried. Nash had 5 assists.

[Fafnir]

He's not strong enough to deal with a lot of post players, not just Dwight Howard. He's a solid pick and roll defender, but is a bad weakside helper. He's also very foul prone, which is okay but if Shaq goes down you're in serious trouble

While I agree that he plays the offensive role of a 5 just fine you don't want him as your only backup C to a 37 year old C.

If they trade Z its a huge gamble that both Shaq is going to be healthy all year, and that Hickson can handle big time minutes during playoffs or big games. Either that or LeBron will have to go to the 4 full time. I don't think that's the best strategy for the Cavs though. He has a lot of advantages against most 4s, but matchup wise it'd hurt the team if they do it more than 12 minutes a game.

You need size and length to deal with the three of the four other best teams in the league. (Boston, Orlando, Lakers) Cleveland trading Big Z will put them at a big disadvantage in the playoffs because of that.