Cleveland vs Miami / Phoenix vs Los Angeles Doubleheader game thread 11/12

[Who]

Miami are looking better to start the season. Jermaine O'Neal is playing well and their defense has looked very good in the few games I've seen them play this season. Spoelstra looks a very good Head Coach.

I think the Cavs need to stop playing Big Z. They'd have a nice four man big rotation with Shaq, Hickson, Varejao and James. Use Z's expiring contract to find some help on the wing.

Fun game -- the fourth quarter was a little hard to watch though. Especially Cleveland and those isolation plays and Miami at the start of the fourth when Wade was off the floor -- first quarter was the best part of the game.

[Fafnir]

Miami are looking better to start the season. Jermaine O'Neal is playing well and their defense has looked very good in the few games I've seen them play this season. Spoelstra looks a very good Head Coach.

I think the Cavs need to stop playing Big Z. They'd have a nice four man big rotation with Shaq, Hickson, Varejao and James. Use Z's expiring contract to find some help on the wing.

Fun game -- the fourth quarter was a little hard to watch though. Especially Cleveland and those isolation plays and Miami at the start of the fourth when Wade was off the floor -- first quarter was the best part of the game.

They'd have only one Center who is 37, that's a bad recipe for the playoffs. It'd also leave them with only LBJ and Shaq as shot blockers.

[Who]

beasly is a beast

Beasley is bugging me. He has so much talent skill-wise and physically but he doesn't use it well enough.

The lack of rebounding bothers me most of all. 5.6 rebounds in 30 minutes? That's terrible for a power forward. It's amazing to see how bad his rebounding is after watching him play a few games in college. I think it's solely down to a lack of effort + focus.

It's such a talented scorer. Ambidextrous. Good finisher in the paint. Great in the open court. Can drive going either direction. Quick first step. Lovely face up game. Nice midrange game. Jumper all the way out to three point range ... but his shot selection is really poor. Plus he shies away from contact so often. It makes him an inefficient scorer despite his talents. Again, a mental issue holding him back.

The defense at times too, makes me want to throw something at the TV, but in fairness to him he's improved leaps and bounds over where he was last season. I'm happy enough with his defense for the moment. He can continue to improve there, his quickness + length could do a lot of damage defensively if he puts the time in.

Beasley is wasting his abilities. Mentality issues.

[Who]

Miami are looking better to start the season. Jermaine O'Neal is playing well and their defense has looked very good in the few games I've seen them play this season. Spoelstra looks a very good Head Coach.

I think the Cavs need to stop playing Big Z. They'd have a nice four man big rotation with Shaq, Hickson, Varejao and James. Use Z's expiring contract to find some help on the wing.

Fun game -- the fourth quarter was a little hard to watch though. Especially Cleveland and those isolation plays and Miami at the start of the fourth when Wade was off the floor -- first quarter was the best part of the game.

They'd have only one Center who is 37, that's a bad recipe for the playoffs. It'd also leave them with only LBJ and Shaq as shot blockers.

Varejao is a PF/C. He is equally capable of playing either position.

A one-two punch at center of Shaq-Varejao is very good.

[Bahku]

Is this the same Phoenix team that played last night? Wow ... what a one-day turnaround! The Celtics have no equal in this league ... not while we're healthy.

[celticsclay]

I can not believe how spry grant hill looks. What is the secret of the Phoenix training staff? Those guys are amazing.. lets steal that technology and rejuvinate kg and ray allen. (and perhaps scott pollard)

[Who]

• Shaq playing 28-30 minutes a night
• Varejao playing 30-35 minutes a night as the first big off the bench.
• JJ Hickson playing 25-33 minutes depending on how successful he is at the position over the next few weeks as their starting power forward.
• Then LeBron James playing 8-10 minutes as the fourth big in the rotation.
• Darnell Jackson is the insurance big, fifth string.

Ideally the Cavs would acquire another big capable of filling those 8-10 minutes as the fourth big in the rotation later in the year. Likely in the form of a waived player or perhaps in a trade for West or Gibson. Similar to how they got Joe Smith last year ... so it's an option on whether to play LeBron those minutes at PF or not rather than a necessity. But if that doesn't happen it's not that important.

[Who]

I can not believe how spry grant hill looks. What is the secret of the Phoenix training staff? Those guys are amazing.. lets steal that technology and rejuvinate kg and ray allen. (and perhaps scott pollard)

Yeah, it's amazing, physically he looks like he's a rookie again. A little smaller than Hill was as a rookie even!

[PosImpos]

The Suns are getting killed by the Lakers' length.  That's their Achilles heel.

I think it's safe to say the Lakers are still a cut above the Suns.

[Bahku]

I can not believe how spry grant hill looks. What is the secret of the Phoenix training staff? Those guys are amazing.. lets steal that technology and rejuvinate kg and ray allen. (and perhaps scott pollard)

Yeah, it's amazing, physically he looks like he's a rookie again. A little smaller than Hill was as a rookie even!

From what he said himself, he trained as hard as he ever has this off-season ... it shows.

[Fafnir]

Miami are looking better to start the season. Jermaine O'Neal is playing well and their defense has looked very good in the few games I've seen them play this season. Spoelstra looks a very good Head Coach.

I think the Cavs need to stop playing Big Z. They'd have a nice four man big rotation with Shaq, Hickson, Varejao and James. Use Z's expiring contract to find some help on the wing.

Fun game -- the fourth quarter was a little hard to watch though. Especially Cleveland and those isolation plays and Miami at the start of the fourth when Wade was off the floor -- first quarter was the best part of the game.

They'd have only one Center who is 37, that's a bad recipe for the playoffs. It'd also leave them with only LBJ and Shaq as shot blockers.

Varejao is a PF/C. He is equally capable of playing either position.

A one-two punch at center of Shaq-Varejao is very good.

AV is not a good Center. He's not a shot blocker, nor is he strong enough to defend Howard/Gasol/etc....

[Fafnir]

• Shaq playing 28-30 minutes a night
• Varejao playing 30-35 minutes a night as the first big off the bench.
• JJ Hickson playing 25-33 minutes depending on how successful he is at the position over the next few weeks as their starting power forward.
• Then LeBron James playing 8-10 minutes as the fourth big in the rotation.
• Darnell Jackson is the insurance big, fifth string.

Ideally the Cavs would acquire another big capable of filling those 8-10 minutes as the fourth big in the rotation later in the year. Likely in the form of a waived player or perhaps in a trade for West or Gibson. Similar to how they got Joe Smith last year ... so it's an option on whether to play LeBron those minutes at PF or not rather than a necessity. But if that doesn't happen it's not that important.

Hickson has to play well and hit jump shots for that to work. Also if they lose Shaq to injury for any length of time they are in huge trouble. If Big Z continues to give them nothing they're going to be in trouble against the bigger teams with depth up front. (Boston/Orlando/Lakers)

[Atzar]

• Shaq playing 28-30 minutes a night
• Varejao playing 30-35 minutes a night as the first big off the bench.
• JJ Hickson playing 25-33 minutes depending on how successful he is at the position over the next few weeks as their starting power forward.
• Then LeBron James playing 8-10 minutes as the fourth big in the rotation.
• Darnell Jackson is the insurance big, fifth string.

Ideally the Cavs would acquire another big capable of filling those 8-10 minutes as the fourth big in the rotation later in the year. Likely in the form of a waived player or perhaps in a trade for West or Gibson. Similar to how they got Joe Smith last year ... so it's an option on whether to play LeBron those minutes at PF or not rather than a necessity. But if that doesn't happen it's not that important.

Hickson has to play well and hit jump shots for that to work. Also if they lose Shaq to injury for any length of time they are in huge trouble. If Big Z continues to give them nothing they're going to be in trouble against the bigger teams with depth up front. (Boston/Orlando/Lakers)

Yeah, I agree - too many things have to swing the right way for that rotation to work.  Hickson has to be productive - he played great tonight, and he also had more points tonight than he'd had all season before this game.  Jamario Moon also needs to prove that he's worthy of 15-20 minutes on most nights, unless you plan on making LeBron go all 48.  Even if everything goes well for them, the minutes would be stretched thin and foul trouble could really hurt them. 

[Who]

• Shaq playing 28-30 minutes a night
• Varejao playing 30-35 minutes a night as the first big off the bench.
• JJ Hickson playing 25-33 minutes depending on how successful he is at the position over the next few weeks as their starting power forward.
• Then LeBron James playing 8-10 minutes as the fourth big in the rotation.
• Darnell Jackson is the insurance big, fifth string.

Ideally the Cavs would acquire another big capable of filling those 8-10 minutes as the fourth big in the rotation later in the year. Likely in the form of a waived player or perhaps in a trade for West or Gibson. Similar to how they got Joe Smith last year ... so it's an option on whether to play LeBron those minutes at PF or not rather than a necessity. But if that doesn't happen it's not that important.

Hickson has to play well and hit jump shots for that to work. Also if they lose Shaq to injury for any length of time they are in huge trouble. If Big Z continues to give them nothing they're going to be in trouble against the bigger teams with depth up front. (Boston/Orlando/Lakers)

Yeah, I agree - too many things have to swing the right way for that rotation to work.  Hickson has to be productive - he played great tonight, and he also had more points tonight than he'd had all season before this game.  Jamario Moon also needs to prove that he's worthy of 15-20 minutes on most nights, unless you plan on making LeBron go all 48.  Even if everything goes well for them, the minutes would be stretched thin and foul trouble could really hurt them. 

Trading Big Z's expiring contract to add talent on the wing. That will lessen the load on Moon & Co. on the wings and reduce the level of responsibilities of the big men since there's more talent on the wing.

[Who]

I think Hickson has to start at this stage. I just don't see the Varejao/Shaq combination + 48 minutes of slow footed defensive centers working out well enough for the Cavs.

A Shaquille O'Neal and Anderson Varejao one-two punch at center gives the Cavs far more flexibility defensively in matching up against different types of teams. Against squads who have bigs who like to step out, against teams who run a lot of pick and rolls, and/or against teams who push the tempo.

Ilgauskas and Shaq can't play alongside one another either so that leaves Hickson or LeBron as the only viable options. Going with Hickson over LeBron, while trading Big Z, doesn't change anything in the end game. If it works out Hickson is the starting PF and LeBron is the fourth big. If it doesn't, then LeBron is the starter and Hickson is the fourth big in the rotation. In either scenario the Cavs will need another quality wing player to take the load off Bron while at the PF while adding some additional talent to the side.

Personally, I think Hickson will work out well enough to start him. His jump shot looked very smooth during the preseason games I saw him play and I think with regular minutes as a starter you'll see that consistently as the season goes on. But, even if it doesn't, I don't think that changes the plan for Cleveland.

I just don't see the chemistry developing for the Cavs while playing 48 minutes of Shaq + Ilgauskas + another 30 minutes of Varejao. And on top of that, having all the offensive problems which they clearly still have. They need more quickness, mobility, shooting and another quality perimeter player who can make plays.