Do we still need to trade our expirings during the course of the season?

[Drucci]

I must admit that I was still skeptical about our bench after the offseason, mainly because of our lack of a true point guard in the 2nd unit. But now, 5 games into the season and with great production from our bench, and Eddie feeling comfortable and freed thanks to Marquis, I'm just wondering if it would be necessary for the Celtics to trade the expirings contracts (let's say Tony and Scal) during the season or at the February deadline.

Yeah, I know we're just 5 games into the season and that the bench production could drop or that we could get some injuries. But let's assume that everybody stays healthy (crossing my fingers) and that the current bench (+ Baby and - Shelden) keeps being so productive : would you really feel the need for a real point guard, which would move Eddie to the 2, where he would be undersized?

Would you ever feel the need for bringing another bench player? If yes, at which spot?

I just think that the most logical move would be to bring a wing (I like Travis Outlaw), which would allow Ray and Paul to get even more rest. Then you have Eddie as the point guard, Marquis at the 2, and Outlaw at the 3. Travis wouldn't be assured of having a lot of playing time, especially in the playoffs, but you would have another reliable wing just in case. And his contract is expiring so it wouldn't hurt the Celtics' flexibility next summer.

What do you think? I must admit I'm wondering about it, because the bench is so good right now that I almost feel that we have all we need... even if there is still a little margin for improvement. But the more I think about it, the more I think that the C's would only trade their expirings if it made them acquire a player that they couldn't get in next summer's free agency. A player that would be useful now - and for the future.

[Mr October]

I love this Celtics team. There is depth at all positions.

I would hold onto the expiring contracts and use them to fill a gap if a major injury occurs.

Otherwise, this team is solid, and by letting guys expire, the Celtics will have a little more wiggle room to resign Pierce, Ray, Daniels and House.

[the_Bird]

Agreed.  We don't have any NEEDS right now, and you'd hate to trade for an extraneous SF and then have Rondo or Perk or someone get hurt and we instead need help at another spot.  Besides, Scal can and will still help us this year, I'd hate to give him up for someone we don't need, since we know he can fill in behind KG and behind Pierce should either of those guys go down for any reason. 

[xmuscularghandix]

Salary cap-wise it makes sense to. We're so far above that cap that our 5 million coming off from TA, Scal, and JR doesn't actually give us money to spend. The only FA we could sign is Ray becuase of his bird rights. (technically Scal and TA as well)

[Lucky17]

I say yes, but not so much to address depth on this year's club as to make the most of limited abilities to add to next year's roster.

As far as I can tell from Hoopshype/Shampsorts, next year we will only have 6 players under guaranteed contracts: Pierce, KG, Perkins, Wallace, Davis, and Rondo, plus options for Walker and Hudson.

Ray Allen could be signed to a new deal thanks to Bird Rights. Let's assume negotiations go well, and he is brought back. That makes 7 rotation players returning.

We will need to rely on the MLE and minimum salaries to round out the rest of the roster, which will be a tall order. [We will not have the LLE, aka the Bi-Annual exception, as we used it this year to sign Daniels.]

It's possible we could bring back players like House and Daniels with the maximum allowable raises (thus preserving the MLE), but both are under contracts that are well under their current market value. The success of this year's team may price these guys out of our range, making it difficult to retain one, if not both, without expending a good portion of the MLE.

I think this is why we may need to trade some of our expiring deals for a rotation-caliber player, even only if it is for a backup.

[greg_kite]

I say yes, but not so much to address depth on this year's club as to make the most of limited abilities to add to next year's roster.

As far as I can tell from Hoopshype/Shampsorts, next year we will only have 6 players under guaranteed contracts: Pierce, KG, Perkins, Wallace, Davis, and Rondo, plus options for Walker and Hudson.

Ray Allen could be signed to a new deal thanks to Bird Rights. Let's assume negotiations go well, and he is brought back. That makes 7 rotation players returning.

We will need to rely on the MLE and minimum salaries to round out the rest of the roster, which will be a tall order. [We will not have the LLE, aka the Bi-Annual exception, as we used it this year to sign Daniels.]

It's possible we could bring back players like House and Daniels with the maximum allowable raises (thus preserving the MLE), but both are under contracts that are well under their current market value. The success of this year's team may price these guys out of our range, making it difficult to retain one, if not both, without expending a good portion of the MLE.

I think this is why we may need to trade some of our expiring deals for a rotation-caliber player, even only if it is for a backup.

I agree with everything you said.  I think we do get to keep Eddie's Bird rights too as he will have three years with the same team.  If we want to re-sign Marquis though I think we'll have to dip into the MLE, probably most of it.  Unless there is another All Star type out there that we can get cheap, like Sheed, I would be happy with spending maybe 3.5-4 Mil on Quis and the rest on another guy to shore up the bench.

I see no need to trade those guys now, unless a great deal comes along.  Like Battier or Stephen Jackson.  Who knows, we could end up picking someone up in March.  The great part is, we don't even need one this year like we did in years past.

[the_Bird]

Salary cap-wise it makes sense to. We're so far above that cap that our 5 million coming off from TA, Scal, and JR doesn't actually give us money to spend. The only FA we could sign is Ray becuase of his bird rights. (technically Scal and TA as well)

No.  We still have the MLE to work with next offseason.  We don't have the LLE since we used it on Daniels and it's an every-other-season thing, but other than that we enter next offseason with the same ability to sign free agents as this past offseason (ergo, limited).

If Ray doesn't want to re-sign for what we're offering, we could potentially do a sign-and-trade with him as well.

[Lucky17]

I agree with everything you said.  I think we do get to keep Eddie's Bird rights too as he will have three years with the same team. 

That's a great point. I hadn't considered that. If House can be resigned without using MLE, we could keep both House and Daniels, and still have a little money left over for a journeyman big.

[Mr October]

Salary cap-wise it makes sense to. We're so far above that cap that our 5 million coming off from TA, Scal, and JR doesn't actually give us money to spend. The only FA we could sign is Ray becuase of his bird rights. (technically Scal and TA as well)

I think those 5 million dollars will come in handy.

This year the Celtics payroll is 84 million, and the luxury tax kicks in at 70 million. That means the owners are paying 98 million this year, far and above what they have ever done before. And they are willing to go this high because the window is going to close with this team very soon. I highly highly doubt Wyc and company will be willing to pay much higher next year.

In 2010-11, the Celtics are slated for 63 million. When you add in the possible resignings...

Ray Allen 9 mil
Marquis Daniels 4 mil (using part of the MLE)
Eddie House 3 mil
Shelden Williams 1.5 mil (using the remainder of the MLE)

... you find the team at 81 million. Add in 3 more minimal contracts and you're at 84 million again.

If the Celtics actually swing for another 5 million in salary (via trade), I'd be shocked.

[xmuscularghandix]

Salary cap-wise it makes sense to. We're so far above that cap that our 5 million coming off from TA, Scal, and JR doesn't actually give us money to spend. The only FA we could sign is Ray becuase of his bird rights. (technically Scal and TA as well)

I think those 5 million dollars will come in handy.

This year the Celtics payroll is 84 million, and the luxury tax kicks in at 70 million. That means the owners are paying 98 million this year, far and above what they have ever done before. And they are willing to go this high because the window is going to close with this team very soon. I highly highly doubt Wyc and company will be willing to pay much higher next year.

In 2010-11, the Celtics are slated for 63 million. When you add in the possible resignings...

Ray Allen 9 mil
Marquis Daniels 4 mil (using part of the MLE)
Eddie House 3 mil
Shelden Williams 1.5 mil (using the remainder of the MLE)

... you find the team at 81 million. Add in 3 more minimal contracts and you're at 84 million again.

If the Celtics actually swing for another 5 million in salary (via trade), I'd be shocked.

Paul Pierce 21
Kevin Garnett 18
Rajon Rondo 9
Ray Allen 9
Rasheed Wallace 6
Kendrick Perkins 4
Marquis Daniels 4
Eddie House 3
Glen Davis 3
Shelden Williams 1
Bill Walker .7
Lester Hudson .7

(then draft picks)

Your right, i didn't realize that it'd work out to THAT many guys under contract.

But your assuming that Danny will resign House/Marquis/Ray/Shelden.

[Mr October]

Salary cap-wise it makes sense to. We're so far above that cap that our 5 million coming off from TA, Scal, and JR doesn't actually give us money to spend. The only FA we could sign is Ray becuase of his bird rights. (technically Scal and TA as well)

I think those 5 million dollars will come in handy.

This year the Celtics payroll is 84 million, and the luxury tax kicks in at 70 million. That means the owners are paying 98 million this year, far and above what they have ever done before. And they are willing to go this high because the window is going to close with this team very soon. I highly highly doubt Wyc and company will be willing to pay much higher next year.

In 2010-11, the Celtics are slated for 63 million. When you add in the possible resignings...

Ray Allen 9 mil
Marquis Daniels 4 mil (using part of the MLE)
Eddie House 3 mil
Shelden Williams 1.5 mil (using the remainder of the MLE)

... you find the team at 81 million. Add in 3 more minimal contracts and you're at 84 million again.

If the Celtics actually swing for another 5 million in salary (via trade), I'd be shocked.

Paul Pierce
Kevin Garnett
Rajon Rondo
Ray Allen
Kendrick Perkins
Rasheed Wallace
Marquis Daniels
Eddie House
Glen Davis
Shelden Williams
Bill Walker
Lester Hudson

(then draft picks)

Your right, i didn't realize that it'd work out to THAT many guys under contract.

But your assuming that Danny will resign House/Marquis/Ray/Shelden.

I guess it all hinges on the team's plans for Ray Allen.  ...then everything else will slide into place.

[xmuscularghandix]

Salary cap-wise it makes sense to. We're so far above that cap that our 5 million coming off from TA, Scal, and JR doesn't actually give us money to spend. The only FA we could sign is Ray becuase of his bird rights. (technically Scal and TA as well)

I think those 5 million dollars will come in handy.

This year the Celtics payroll is 84 million, and the luxury tax kicks in at 70 million. That means the owners are paying 98 million this year, far and above what they have ever done before. And they are willing to go this high because the window is going to close with this team very soon. I highly highly doubt Wyc and company will be willing to pay much higher next year.

In 2010-11, the Celtics are slated for 63 million. When you add in the possible resignings...

Ray Allen 9 mil
Marquis Daniels 4 mil (using part of the MLE)
Eddie House 3 mil
Shelden Williams 1.5 mil (using the remainder of the MLE)

... you find the team at 81 million. Add in 3 more minimal contracts and you're at 84 million again.

If the Celtics actually swing for another 5 million in salary (via trade), I'd be shocked.

Paul Pierce
Kevin Garnett
Rajon Rondo
Ray Allen
Kendrick Perkins
Rasheed Wallace
Marquis Daniels
Eddie House
Glen Davis
Shelden Williams
Bill Walker
Lester Hudson

(then draft picks)

Your right, i didn't realize that it'd work out to THAT many guys under contract.

But your assuming that Danny will resign House/Marquis/Ray/Shelden.

I guess it all hinges on the team's plans for Ray Allen.  ...then everything else will slide into place.

Technically they COULD let Ray go for future cap space, and start Marquis. But that doesn't quite spread the floor the same way.

[dark_lord]

as of right now, only if there is a season ending type injury

[Neurotic Guy]

First, I wouldn't mess with a winner, and as long as we are healthy, the fewer changes the better.  But... we don't know who DA might be able to steal at the deadline and we know that this trade deadline is the last big opportunity for teams to get cap leverage for the big FA market -- expiring deals will be very valuable -- especially the 20 mil that Ray could wipe off a team's payroll.  Not saying I am even close to wanting to deal Ray -- but it might be interesting to see who could be had for Ray's contract (and a chance to resign him along with a big FA).  For the heck of it, what about Ray for Deng and Heinrich? Gives Chicago a legit shot at Lebron and a great chance to resign Ray.  Actually, I don't like what this would do to our team this year, but just throwing something out there.

[Mr October]

First, I wouldn't mess with a winner, and as long as we are healthy, the fewer changes the better.  But... we don't know who DA might be able to steal at the deadline and we know that this trade deadline is the last big opportunity for teams to get cap leverage for the big FA market -- expiring deals will be very valuable -- especially the 20 mil that Ray could wipe off a team's payroll.  Not saying I am even close to wanting to deal Ray -- but it might be interesting to see who could be had for Ray's contract (and a chance to resign him along with a big FA).  For the heck of it, what about Ray for Deng and Heinrich? Gives Chicago a legit shot at Lebron and a great chance to resign Ray.  Actually, I don't like what this would do to our team this year, but just throwing something out there.

Yep, you always need to kick the tires when a star-player fire sale happens in FEB.