Celtics making new offer to Rondo TODAY (Per Ordway, WEEI)

[BballTim]

I think the Celtics want Rondo to prove it to them that he is mature enough and good enough to be the financial cornerstone of the future. If he does, they will have no problem giving him a max deal next summer or matching one.

  People keep saying this. Sure, they might be willing to sign him to a big contract next summer, but they can't be thrilled to sign him to a deal that's $10M-$15M more than they'd have been able to sign him for now. If nothing else, Wyc should be less than thrilled. The team happily payed KG $16M a year or so, but do you think they'd rather have signed him for $13M a year or so?

[ManchvegasBob]

http://celticsstufflive.com/csl-home/jack-jemsek/196-rondonomics-the-definitive-article-on-rondos-extension

I'm in the near LaMarcus Aldridge money camp for Rondo, and I'd give him a discount because he's not 6'10".  But just as Portland signed Brandon Roy and Aldridge, the Celtics would be wise to sign their future all-star.  is there anyone that would want last year's all-stars Devin Harris, Jameer Nelson or Mo Williams over Rondo right now?  Didn't think so . . . Rondo is going to exceed Jason Kidd in performance, and despite the shooting flaws, his skill set justifies the pay-off.

There are risks on both sides for not getting it done now. especially when they can afford it next year when the salary kicks in.  

[guava_wrench]

I think the Celtics want Rondo to prove it to them that he is mature enough and good enough to be the financial cornerstone of the future. If he does, they will have no problem giving him a max deal next summer or matching one.

  People keep saying this. Sure, they might be willing to sign him to a big contract next summer, but they can't be thrilled to sign him to a deal that's $10M-$15M more than they'd have been able to sign him for now. If nothing else, Wyc should be less than thrilled. The team happily payed KG $16M a year or so, but do you think they'd rather have signed him for $13M a year or so?

If he's already asking for a max deal, how are they going to end up paying more at the end of the season?

[guava_wrench]

http://celticsstufflive.com/csl-home/jack-jemsek/196-rondonomics-the-definitive-article-on-rondos-extension

I'm in the near LaMarcus Aldridge money camp for Rondo, and I'd give him a discount because he's not 6'10".  But just as Portland signed Brandon Roy and Aldridge, the Celtics would be wise to sign their future all-star.  is there anyone that would want last year's all-stars Devin Harris, Jameer Nelson or Mo Williams over Rondo right now?  Didn't think so . . . Rondo is going to exceed Jason Kidd in performance, and despite the shooting flaws, his skill set justifies the pay-off.

There are risks on both sides for not getting it done now. especially when they can afford it next year when the salary kicks in.  

I think you underestimate how good Kidd was. Let's not get carried away with our wishful thinking.

[greenwise]

I think it would be reasonable to offer him between $45 and $55 million for 5 years. More than that is not realistic for Rondo's game right now. He still needs to improve his shooting, his ft's and his maturity issues to be a max contract player. He is definitely worth $10-11million per season.

[xmuscularghandix]

http://celticsstufflive.com/csl-home/jack-jemsek/196-rondonomics-the-definitive-article-on-rondos-extension

I'm in the near LaMarcus Aldridge money camp for Rondo, and I'd give him a discount because he's not 6'10".  But just as Portland signed Brandon Roy and Aldridge, the Celtics would be wise to sign their future all-star.  is there anyone that would want last year's all-stars Devin Harris, Jameer Nelson or Mo Williams over Rondo right now?  Didn't think so . . . Rondo is going to exceed Jason Kidd in performance, and despite the shooting flaws, his skill set justifies the pay-off.

There are risks on both sides for not getting it done now. especially when they can afford it next year when the salary kicks in.  

I think you underestimate how good Kidd was. Let's not get carried away with our wishful thinking.

Defenitely. Jidd is better than every PG in the past 30 years that isn't Magic, Stockton, or Robertson.

[BballTim]

I think the Celtics want Rondo to prove it to them that he is mature enough and good enough to be the financial cornerstone of the future. If he does, they will have no problem giving him a max deal next summer or matching one.

  People keep saying this. Sure, they might be willing to sign him to a big contract next summer, but they can't be thrilled to sign him to a deal that's $10M-$15M more than they'd have been able to sign him for now. If nothing else, Wyc should be less than thrilled. The team happily payed KG $16M a year or so, but do you think they'd rather have signed him for $13M a year or so?

If he's already asking for a max deal, how are they going to end up paying more at the end of the season?

  Who said he's already asking for a max deal? I remember hearing him on the radio saying that he's not a max contract player yet but he hopes to be one some day.

[Roy Hobbs]

  Who said he's already asking for a max deal? I remember hearing him on the radio saying that he's not a max contract player yet but he hopes to be one some day.

I haven't seen anywhere saying he wants to be paid the maximum, but his demands aren't all that far off.  Marc Spears is reporting he wants to be paid like a top-5 point guard.  Top PG salaries:

Arenas $16.2 million - Wizards
Chris Paul $13.5 million - Hornets
Williams $13.5 million - Jazz
Nash $13.1 million - Suns
Parker - $12.6 million - Spurs
Davis $12.5 million - Clippers
Billups $12.1 million - Nuggets

So, he's likely asking for at least $12 million per year, and potentially $12 million in the first year.

A deal starting at $12 million would mean 5 years, $72.6 million.  A deal with an average annual value of $12 million would, of course, be 5 years, $60 million, which is consistent with what foxsports is reporting.  In a 5 year, $60 million deal, the starting value would be around $9.9 million in year one.

[CoachBo]

12 is too much for a poor shooter whose effort is uneven right now.

It's a fair price, if that shooter improves and plays more consistently.

Nothing at all wrong with this move by the Celtics, IMHO. Make Rondo elevate his game.

I support Ainge rarely, but he's exactly right on this deal. The inherent dangers in overpaying for a player whose attitude and effort is already clearly in question are substantial.

You have to be ready to pay if Rondo elevates his game, though, and I'm assuming the Celtics' are.

[BballTim]

  Who said he's already asking for a max deal? I remember hearing him on the radio saying that he's not a max contract player yet but he hopes to be one some day.

I haven't seen anywhere saying he wants to be paid the maximum, but his demands aren't all that far off.  Marc Spears is reporting he wants to be paid like a top-5 point guard.  Top PG salaries:

Arenas $16.2 million - Wizards
Chris Paul $13.5 million - Hornets
Williams $13.5 million - Jazz
Nash $13.1 million - Suns
Parker - $12.6 million - Spurs
Davis $12.5 million - Clippers
Billups $12.1 million - Nuggets

So, he's likely asking for at least $12 million per year, and potentially $12 million in the first year.

A deal starting at $12 million would mean 5 years, $72.6 million.  A deal with an average annual value of $12 million would, of course, be 5 years, $60 million, which is consistent with what foxsports is reporting.  In a 5 year, $60 million deal, the starting value would be around $9.9 million in year one.

  I thought I read that he's asking for $55M -$60M but Ainge was offering around $45M. I might go into the low 50s if it might save some cash next year.

[Roy Hobbs]

  Who said he's already asking for a max deal? I remember hearing him on the radio saying that he's not a max contract player yet but he hopes to be one some day.

I haven't seen anywhere saying he wants to be paid the maximum, but his demands aren't all that far off.  Marc Spears is reporting he wants to be paid like a top-5 point guard.  Top PG salaries:

Arenas $16.2 million - Wizards
Chris Paul $13.5 million - Hornets
Williams $13.5 million - Jazz
Nash $13.1 million - Suns
Parker - $12.6 million - Spurs
Davis $12.5 million - Clippers
Billups $12.1 million - Nuggets

So, he's likely asking for at least $12 million per year, and potentially $12 million in the first year.

A deal starting at $12 million would mean 5 years, $72.6 million.  A deal with an average annual value of $12 million would, of course, be 5 years, $60 million, which is consistent with what foxsports is reporting.  In a 5 year, $60 million deal, the starting value would be around $9.9 million in year one.

  I thought I read that he's asking for $55M -$60M but Ainge was offering around $45M. I might go into the low 50s if it might save some cash next year.

As I said, it depends on what source you believe.  $55 - $60 million isn't being paid like a top-five point guard.  Also, it always cracks me up when you see a range in negotiations.  It's either $55 million or $60 million, but I guarantee you that Bill Duffy didn't say, "we're looking for something between $55 and $60 million".  That would, of course, mean that his ceiling just moved to $55 million, as no team is going to give more than the low number.

[BballTim]

  Who said he's already asking for a max deal? I remember hearing him on the radio saying that he's not a max contract player yet but he hopes to be one some day.

I haven't seen anywhere saying he wants to be paid the maximum, but his demands aren't all that far off.  Marc Spears is reporting he wants to be paid like a top-5 point guard.  Top PG salaries:

Arenas $16.2 million - Wizards
Chris Paul $13.5 million - Hornets
Williams $13.5 million - Jazz
Nash $13.1 million - Suns
Parker - $12.6 million - Spurs
Davis $12.5 million - Clippers
Billups $12.1 million - Nuggets

So, he's likely asking for at least $12 million per year, and potentially $12 million in the first year.

A deal starting at $12 million would mean 5 years, $72.6 million.  A deal with an average annual value of $12 million would, of course, be 5 years, $60 million, which is consistent with what foxsports is reporting.  In a 5 year, $60 million deal, the starting value would be around $9.9 million in year one.

  I thought I read that he's asking for $55M -$60M but Ainge was offering around $45M. I might go into the low 50s if it might save some cash next year.

As I said, it depends on what source you believe.  $55 - $60 million isn't being paid like a top-five point guard.  Also, it always cracks me up when you see a range in negotiations.  It's either $55 million or $60 million, but I guarantee you that Bill Duffy didn't say, "we're looking for something between $55 and $60 million".  That would, of course, mean that his ceiling just moved to $55 million, as no team is going to give more than the low number.

  Unless he's looking for incentives or something. Or it could be that he's comparing Rondo to players that earn in the $11M-$12M range, or he's asking for $58M or so.

[ManUp]

I think that 5 years 45 million would be the ideal contract for both sides. I would inderstand if Danny was hesitant to offer more, but I think he'd get more in free agency.

I would not be surprised if the deal the C's offered was similar to that.  Unfortunately, Rondo likely wouldn't even consider it.

Ok, but let me throw this out there, how high is really too high?  I like 9 million too, but would 11 million really hurt the team?  Would even 12? 

I'm not advocating overpaying Rondo just for the heck of it, but I think there's a value beyond just Rondo's talent in A) keeping him around another year or two to play with the Big Three, and B) in locking up a very good pure point guard, something there isn't a lot of in the NBA. 

I'd rather overpay Rondo and win a couple more titles than lose him in free agency and potentially throw the last year or two of the Big Three's potency down the drain.  There's no guarantee that this team is going to be good enough in 3-4 years for us to really regret overpaying him. 

Personally, I think it would take something along the lines of 5 years, $60 million to even get Rondo to the table this year.  He just has very little reason to not wait.

Seems you (and me? )were right. I can't blame Danny for not signing Rondo for 60-65 million. You don't give that type of money to just very good players, which is what Rondo is right now. If I were Danny I'd seriously consider giving him 50, maybe 55 million, but 60 Million would be my cut off point. I'm still hoping we could finalize something before times up, but can't say Danny didn't make a fair offer.

[Chris]

Honestly, I think all of this talk about numbers is pointless.  The way the salary cap works, in 90% of the situations, there is not a big difference between a $9 million a year contract, and a $12 million a year contract.  Most of the time, you are still going to be over the cap.

Teams are not killed by overpaying elite, building-block players by a few million a year.  Teams are killed by signing flawed, non-elite players to elite level contracts (I would consider an elite level contract, pretty much anything in the $10+ million a year range).  

I feel strongly that if the C's felt confident that Rondo was an elite level player, this would have gotten done a month ago.  However, I think they are still not convinced, and have decided that it is worth the risk to pay him a little more next season, in order to be a little more sure they are not screwing the team over by putting their future in the hands of the wrong guy.

Ultimately, it really is not going to make a huge difference in 3 years, if Rondo is making $11 million, or $13 million.  Because if they sign him for a "bargain" at 5 years, $50 million, and he turns out to be Kirk Hinrich or TJ Ford, once the Big 3 are gone, then the team is pretty screwed.  But if they wait a year, and sign him for 5 years, $65 million, and he turns out to be close to the Chris Paul/Deron Williams category, they are not going to care that they paid a few million extra, because they are going to have the production to match the money.

[Fafnir]

Chris is spot on, I do have to add that teams are killed also when roleplayers are signed to big long term deals that their skills can't support over the length of the contract.

Posey's signing can kill a team's cap, Scal's hurt the Celtics badly, Charlie Bell's, etc....