Yahoo! Woj Article on Rondo

[nickagneta]

I'm not sure how you're getting a negative vibe from this article, Roy. Its about Rondo seeing how the team was starting to falter a little without KG and wanting to try and fix it. But as a young player, he made mistakes in the way he went about doing it, but his intentions were for the good of the team. Its not as if he wanted to split the team apart; he wanted to get any issues out in the air so they could be resolved, it just ended up backfiring on him. But it taught him a lesson, I think, and he'll be a better leader for it in the future. He's certainly been great in terms of leadership this pre-season, and he is always joking around with the Big 3. All in all, this is a pretty positive article, even for Wojo, who is not afraid to be negative in the least.

I guess I'm not sure how anybody gets an overly positive tone from the article.  Wojo details a meeting that Doc very clearly thought hurt the team, and Rondo's reaction is "eh..."  We'll see how that translates to this season.

I don't know what happened, so I'm not blindly defending Rondo by any means, but:

Why did a meeting have to take place? Isn't one of Doc's jobs to be aware of interpersonal vibes on the team and build a positive atmosphere? I could definitely see that the Big 3 could be VERY difficult to play with as a young player. Obviously I love the Big 3, but they are not infallibly perfect. They are very competitive people, and I could definitely see them burning some bridges. Doc's job is to be there to stop schisms from developing and steer all the players toward a common goal.

So you are taking an article about Rondo calling a team meeting against the advice of Doc Rivers, how that meeting worked out, how it might demonstrate the PG's immaturity and need for growth and the reasons behind the C's shopping Rondo and turning it into a swipe at Doc?

I don't get it! I mean is Doc responsible for EVERYTHING that goes wrong with this team and not responsible for ANYTHING that goes right with this team? 

No, not a swipe at Doc. I'm actually trying NOT to pick a "Right" side. I'm just pointing out that we fans really like the Big Three, but that they've been known to, frankly, **** people off, and I could definitely see playing with them as a young player being difficult.

I could see that too, but I'm not sure what Doc could do in that case. It is their team(the Big Three's) whether the young guys like it or not. They need to get it into their heads that only players the caliber of LeBron, Magic, MJ, Bird, Kareem, and so on who come into the league as not only the best most prominent player on their team but also the biggest personality that get to be the leader right away. Other than that, in the NBA, young guys have to be subservient to the older established stars and leaders. It's been like that for 60 years and will be for 60 more.

Doc understands that and advised against the meeting but it took the meeting happening before the young guys realized that Doc was right and that they should accept the team structure and live with it. As Rondo, perk, Baby and Powe get older and more established as players, it will be their turn to be the leaders and have rookies put up with them. I just think the championship got some of the young guys into thinking they were more than they are and it wasn't until after that meeting that they learned their lesson.

So in a way, Doc probably handled it perfectly.

[BballTim]

Interesting:

Rondo appeared to want his teammates to air out complaints in the early evening of April 14, but it rapidly deteriorated into a grievance session that had the uncomfortable vibe of the young guys against the Big 3 of Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce(notes) and Ray Allen(notes). For some Celtics, there was a sense that Rondo had prodded the younger teammates to speak out on the tough-love tactics of the vets.

Rondo never vented, but one teammate who had challenged K.G. later confessed privately that he wished he had never spoken up, that he didn’t even believe the whiny words tumbling out of his mouth. Rondo insists he had the best of intentions, and yet there’s no mistaking the fact the meeting served to widen a gulf between him and his older teammates.

It sounds like this is exactly the type of stuff Doc was talking about when he said some of the younger guys lost site of ubuntu last season.

In other words, Rondo's ego got the best of him, and it affected team chemistry.  No wonder Doc and Danny called him out on it.

I don't think this article was all that much of a positive for Rondo.  I guess I'm skeptical that a young player is really going to do a complete 180 in terms of attitude in one season.  If anything, this article just reaffirmed for me the things that Doc and Danny were complaining about.

  I guess it depends on how you read it. It doesn't say Rondo had a problem, it seems to say Rondo was trying to solve a problem between other players on the team and maybe went about it the wrong way. I don't think it really reflects better on the big three than it does on Rondo.

  

[Fan from VT]

I'm not sure how you're getting a negative vibe from this article, Roy. Its about Rondo seeing how the team was starting to falter a little without KG and wanting to try and fix it. But as a young player, he made mistakes in the way he went about doing it, but his intentions were for the good of the team. Its not as if he wanted to split the team apart; he wanted to get any issues out in the air so they could be resolved, it just ended up backfiring on him. But it taught him a lesson, I think, and he'll be a better leader for it in the future. He's certainly been great in terms of leadership this pre-season, and he is always joking around with the Big 3. All in all, this is a pretty positive article, even for Wojo, who is not afraid to be negative in the least.

I guess I'm not sure how anybody gets an overly positive tone from the article.  Wojo details a meeting that Doc very clearly thought hurt the team, and Rondo's reaction is "eh..."  We'll see how that translates to this season.

I don't know what happened, so I'm not blindly defending Rondo by any means, but:

Why did a meeting have to take place? Isn't one of Doc's jobs to be aware of interpersonal vibes on the team and build a positive atmosphere? I could definitely see that the Big 3 could be VERY difficult to play with as a young player. Obviously I love the Big 3, but they are not infallibly perfect. They are very competitive people, and I could definitely see them burning some bridges. Doc's job is to be there to stop schisms from developing and steer all the players toward a common goal.

So you are taking an article about Rondo calling a team meeting against the advice of Doc Rivers, how that meeting worked out, how it might demonstrate the PG's immaturity and need for growth and the reasons behind the C's shopping Rondo and turning it into a swipe at Doc?

I don't get it! I mean is Doc responsible for EVERYTHING that goes wrong with this team and not responsible for ANYTHING that goes right with this team? 

No, not a swipe at Doc. I'm actually trying NOT to pick a "Right" side. I'm just pointing out that we fans really like the Big Three, but that they've been known to, frankly, **** people off, and I could definitely see playing with them as a young player being difficult.

I could see that too, but I'm not sure what Doc could do in that case. It is their team(the Big Three's) whether the young guys like it or not. They need to get it into their heads that only players the caliber of LeBron, Magic, MJ, Bird, Kareem, and so on who come into the league as not only the best most prominent player on their team but also the biggest personality that get to be the leader right away. Other than that, in the NBA, young guys have to be subservient to the older established stars and leaders. It's been like that for 60 years and will be for 60 more.

Doc understands that and advised against the meeting but it took the meeting happening before the young guys realized that Doc was right and that they should accept the team structure and live with it. As Rondo, perk, Baby and Powe get older and more established as players, it will be their turn to be the leaders and have rookies put up with them. I just think the championship got some of the young guys into thinking they were more than they are and it wasn't until after that meeting that they learned their lesson.

So in a way, Doc probably handled it perfectly.

Yeah, i see that, but if the Big Three want to win more titles, they'd be better served to maintain bridges with their existing teammates and not force a trade because they can't accept a younger player into the fold.

[ben]

Rondo is one of the best players in the NBA period. 

[BballTim]

I'm not sure how you're getting a negative vibe from this article, Roy. Its about Rondo seeing how the team was starting to falter a little without KG and wanting to try and fix it. But as a young player, he made mistakes in the way he went about doing it, but his intentions were for the good of the team. Its not as if he wanted to split the team apart; he wanted to get any issues out in the air so they could be resolved, it just ended up backfiring on him. But it taught him a lesson, I think, and he'll be a better leader for it in the future. He's certainly been great in terms of leadership this pre-season, and he is always joking around with the Big 3. All in all, this is a pretty positive article, even for Wojo, who is not afraid to be negative in the least.

I guess I'm not sure how anybody gets an overly positive tone from the article.  Wojo details a meeting that Doc very clearly thought hurt the team, and Rondo's reaction is "eh..."  We'll see how that translates to this season.

I don't know what happened, so I'm not blindly defending Rondo by any means, but:

Why did a meeting have to take place? Isn't one of Doc's jobs to be aware of interpersonal vibes on the team and build a positive atmosphere? I could definitely see that the Big 3 could be VERY difficult to play with as a young player. Obviously I love the Big 3, but they are not infallibly perfect. They are very competitive people, and I could definitely see them burning some bridges. Doc's job is to be there to stop schisms from developing and steer all the players toward a common goal.

So you are taking an article about Rondo calling a team meeting against the advice of Doc Rivers, how that meeting worked out, how it might demonstrate the PG's immaturity and need for growth and the reasons behind the C's shopping Rondo and turning it into a swipe at Doc?

I don't get it! I mean is Doc responsible for EVERYTHING that goes wrong with this team and not responsible for ANYTHING that goes right with this team? 

  It didn't say that Rondo called a team meeting against the advice of Doc. It said that he called the team meeting before he received any advice from Doc.

[BballTim]

I'm not sure how you're getting a negative vibe from this article, Roy. Its about Rondo seeing how the team was starting to falter a little without KG and wanting to try and fix it. But as a young player, he made mistakes in the way he went about doing it, but his intentions were for the good of the team. Its not as if he wanted to split the team apart; he wanted to get any issues out in the air so they could be resolved, it just ended up backfiring on him. But it taught him a lesson, I think, and he'll be a better leader for it in the future. He's certainly been great in terms of leadership this pre-season, and he is always joking around with the Big 3. All in all, this is a pretty positive article, even for Wojo, who is not afraid to be negative in the least.

I guess I'm not sure how anybody gets an overly positive tone from the article.  Wojo details a meeting that Doc very clearly thought hurt the team, and Rondo's reaction is "eh..."  We'll see how that translates to this season.

I don't know what happened, so I'm not blindly defending Rondo by any means, but:

Why did a meeting have to take place? Isn't one of Doc's jobs to be aware of interpersonal vibes on the team and build a positive atmosphere? I could definitely see that the Big 3 could be VERY difficult to play with as a young player. Obviously I love the Big 3, but they are not infallibly perfect. They are very competitive people, and I could definitely see them burning some bridges. Doc's job is to be there to stop schisms from developing and steer all the players toward a common goal.

So you are taking an article about Rondo calling a team meeting against the advice of Doc Rivers, how that meeting worked out, how it might demonstrate the PG's immaturity and need for growth and the reasons behind the C's shopping Rondo and turning it into a swipe at Doc?

I don't get it! I mean is Doc responsible for EVERYTHING that goes wrong with this team and not responsible for ANYTHING that goes right with this team? 

No, not a swipe at Doc. I'm actually trying NOT to pick a "Right" side. I'm just pointing out that we fans really like the Big Three, but that they've been known to, frankly, **** people off, and I could definitely see playing with them as a young player being difficult.

I could see that too, but I'm not sure what Doc could do in that case. It is their team(the Big Three's) whether the young guys like it or not. They need to get it into their heads that only players the caliber of LeBron, Magic, MJ, Bird, Kareem, and so on who come into the league as not only the best most prominent player on their team but also the biggest personality that get to be the leader right away. Other than that, in the NBA, young guys have to be subservient to the older established stars and leaders. It's been like that for 60 years and will be for 60 more.

  Not exactly ubuntu from the older guys though. I can recall the younger players having issues playing with the original big three, definitely Brian Shaw and probably Reggie Lewis.

[nickagneta]

I'm not sure how you're getting a negative vibe from this article, Roy. Its about Rondo seeing how the team was starting to falter a little without KG and wanting to try and fix it. But as a young player, he made mistakes in the way he went about doing it, but his intentions were for the good of the team. Its not as if he wanted to split the team apart; he wanted to get any issues out in the air so they could be resolved, it just ended up backfiring on him. But it taught him a lesson, I think, and he'll be a better leader for it in the future. He's certainly been great in terms of leadership this pre-season, and he is always joking around with the Big 3. All in all, this is a pretty positive article, even for Wojo, who is not afraid to be negative in the least.

I guess I'm not sure how anybody gets an overly positive tone from the article.  Wojo details a meeting that Doc very clearly thought hurt the team, and Rondo's reaction is "eh..."  We'll see how that translates to this season.

I don't know what happened, so I'm not blindly defending Rondo by any means, but:

Why did a meeting have to take place? Isn't one of Doc's jobs to be aware of interpersonal vibes on the team and build a positive atmosphere? I could definitely see that the Big 3 could be VERY difficult to play with as a young player. Obviously I love the Big 3, but they are not infallibly perfect. They are very competitive people, and I could definitely see them burning some bridges. Doc's job is to be there to stop schisms from developing and steer all the players toward a common goal.

So you are taking an article about Rondo calling a team meeting against the advice of Doc Rivers, how that meeting worked out, how it might demonstrate the PG's immaturity and need for growth and the reasons behind the C's shopping Rondo and turning it into a swipe at Doc?

I don't get it! I mean is Doc responsible for EVERYTHING that goes wrong with this team and not responsible for ANYTHING that goes right with this team? 

  It didn't say that Rondo called a team meeting against the advice of Doc. It said that he called the team meeting before he received any advice from Doc.

I didn't read it that way.

As the wheels rolled back and the team jet lifted out of Cleveland Hopkins International Airport, the season’s most humiliating loss dangled like an anvil inside the Boston Celtics’ charter flight. Kevin Garnett(notes) was still out, the playoffs were 10 days away and Rajon Rondo(notes) directed his teammates to gather in the back of the cabin.

“Go ahead,” Doc Rivers warned his players, “but it will be an awful meeting.”

I read it that Doc knew of the meeting before hand and advised that it wouldn't be awful, in other words, not good or advisable.

Semantics.

[BballTim]

I'm not sure how you're getting a negative vibe from this article, Roy. Its about Rondo seeing how the team was starting to falter a little without KG and wanting to try and fix it. But as a young player, he made mistakes in the way he went about doing it, but his intentions were for the good of the team. Its not as if he wanted to split the team apart; he wanted to get any issues out in the air so they could be resolved, it just ended up backfiring on him. But it taught him a lesson, I think, and he'll be a better leader for it in the future. He's certainly been great in terms of leadership this pre-season, and he is always joking around with the Big 3. All in all, this is a pretty positive article, even for Wojo, who is not afraid to be negative in the least.

I guess I'm not sure how anybody gets an overly positive tone from the article.  Wojo details a meeting that Doc very clearly thought hurt the team, and Rondo's reaction is "eh..."  We'll see how that translates to this season.

I don't know what happened, so I'm not blindly defending Rondo by any means, but:

Why did a meeting have to take place? Isn't one of Doc's jobs to be aware of interpersonal vibes on the team and build a positive atmosphere? I could definitely see that the Big 3 could be VERY difficult to play with as a young player. Obviously I love the Big 3, but they are not infallibly perfect. They are very competitive people, and I could definitely see them burning some bridges. Doc's job is to be there to stop schisms from developing and steer all the players toward a common goal.

So you are taking an article about Rondo calling a team meeting against the advice of Doc Rivers, how that meeting worked out, how it might demonstrate the PG's immaturity and need for growth and the reasons behind the C's shopping Rondo and turning it into a swipe at Doc?

I don't get it! I mean is Doc responsible for EVERYTHING that goes wrong with this team and not responsible for ANYTHING that goes right with this team? 

  It didn't say that Rondo called a team meeting against the advice of Doc. It said that he called the team meeting before he received any advice from Doc.

I didn't read it that way.

As the wheels rolled back and the team jet lifted out of Cleveland Hopkins International Airport, the season’s most humiliating loss dangled like an anvil inside the Boston Celtics’ charter flight. Kevin Garnett(notes) was still out, the playoffs were 10 days away and Rajon Rondo(notes) directed his teammates to gather in the back of the cabin.

“Go ahead,” Doc Rivers warned his players, “but it will be an awful meeting.”

I read it that Doc knew of the meeting before hand and advised that it wouldn't be awful, in other words, not good or advisable.

Semantics.

  Doc may have known about the meeting beforehand but he didn't advise against it until it had been called. At that point, can you really call it off? That probably would have made things just as bad if not worse.

  It seemed to read like Doc disliked team meetings from experiencing many of them when he played. You can't fault a 22 year old kid for thinking one would work. Clearly many people did when Doc played.

  Aside: Did you ever hear what Red thought of them? (paraphrasing) "I always thought it was a bad idea when players had meetings after they lost. What happens if they lose the next game? Do they hold another meeting?"

[twinbree]

Interesting article but I don’t think it’s a big deal. It seems like a good idea poorly executed that ended up being a learning experience. I don’t see any self-serving or malicious motive on Rondo’s part. IMO communication is usually a good thing.  In KG’s absence the younger players had to step up and they rose to challenge beautifully so it’s not strange for them to feel they should have a say in whatever is going. The big 3 have said they get together after losses and talk after all.

I’m ready to move on from the negative stuff from last season. Making it public now doesn’t serve any purpose if the team has put it behind them and are back to ubuntu. We have a great team we’re healthy and I just want to watch them play basketball.

[twinbree]

At the end, we learn some interesting things that confirm the "guys not on the same page" problems of last year. Actually, Eddie explains that when Ben Gordon hit a 3 to tie the game in Chicago during the playoffs, Celtics players were not on the same page on the previous timeout, some saying they should switch, others saying they shouldn't : miscommunication that led to that tying 3 pointer, and Eddie - correctly - says that it wouldn't have happened the year before.

Anyway, I'm both surprised and "glad" to heart these reports about last year's chemistry problems since it seems obvious to me that it won't repeat this year.

Not to resurrect and re-beat that dead horse again but this makes no sense to me. I understand discussing options in the timeout but how could there not be a firm plan of action at the end? If the players were not on the same page then Doc needed to pick a side, tell them y punto. This has nothing to do with ubuntu and everything to do with the whole purpose of the timeout. Players might as well stay on the court and bicker instead of going into a huddle.

Yeah I’m also impressed that none of the off-court tension visibly spilled over into games at least for me. I do remember a Pierce giving them an earful in the Sixers game just because the Philly broadcast bizarrely put Gabe in the spotlight and circled his face in that replay (come to think of it Gabe was also kinda in the spotlight in the Baby incident). But that earful was completely warranted as they were playing a pretty sloppy game IIRC.

[footey]

Last year is water under the bridge. Let's play ball.

[Atzar]

I really don't think this article gives enough information for one to draw a conclusion either way.  Rondo could have planted seeds in the heads of some of the players and then told them to confront the Big 3.  On the other hand, some of the players could have made comments to Rondo about the 'tough love' and he said something along the lines of "take it up with them".  Without a factual account of the meeting and the circumstances around it - as opposed to a writer's opinion and a few vague comments from some of the parties involved - I don't think we can really judge one way or the other. 

It's hard for me to trust what writers say now.  ESPN, for example, will report on something LeBron did nine months ago, yet they'll try to cover up Roethlisberger's rape case.  Everything is said primarily to gain readers and secondarily to report the straight truth.  So unless some more concrete information comes out from Doc or one of the players about this, I'm going to continue to take it with a large grain of salt.