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Is Rasheed Wallace a Hall of Famer?

Yes
No
Yes but it'll take him a while to get in
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Re: Is Rasheed Wallace a Hall of Famer?
« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2009, 10:59:14 AM »

Offline Brickowski

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He didn't quit on Detroit.  Dumars quit on him, first by trading away Billups and then by instituting a youth movement with the wrong players (e.g. Gordon and Villanueva).

Maybe Dumars hasn't yet figured out that Rodney Stuckey and Ben Gordon in the same backcourt isn't going to work, but you can't blame Sheed for realizing that the Pistons are headed nowhere.
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Re: Is Rasheed Wallace a Hall of Famer?
« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2009, 11:02:49 AM »

Offline the_Bird

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Perception.  Maybe he quit, maybe he didn't, but the perception among many voters is that he did and that means a good number of voters won't vote for him.

Even if you take away all of that stuff, the technical fouls, the fighting with refs, all of that, he'd be a marginal candidate. 
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Re: Is Rasheed Wallace a Hall of Famer?
« Reply #32 on: October 22, 2009, 11:34:16 AM »

Offline Brickowski

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By the time Sheed comes up for HOF consideration, half of the current voters will be dead and the other half won't remember 2009 at all.
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Re: Is Rasheed Wallace a Hall of Famer?
« Reply #33 on: October 22, 2009, 11:37:27 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Quote from: Brickowski on October 22, 2009, 11:34:16 AM
By the time Sheed comes up for HOF consideration, half of the current voters will be dead and the other half won't remember 2009 at all.

Is this in a post apocalyptic world where half human half walrus overlords have killed off half of mankind, and enslaved the rest?

Because if Sheed retires after next season, he comes up for HOF consideration in 2015. I know I will still remember the 2009-2010 Boston Celtics in 2015. I think.
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Re: Is Rasheed Wallace a Hall of Famer?
« Reply #34 on: October 22, 2009, 11:40:01 AM »

Offline Brickowski

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Yeah, but with all due respect, you are not a voter.  And Sheed has a 3rd year player option, does he not?  Suppose they three-peat, with Sheed winning finals MVP a couple of times?  Stranger things have happened.

Now Shaq deserting Orlando in 1999-- THAT was a real desertion, engineered by Jerry Buss and David Falk.
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Re: Is Rasheed Wallace a Hall of Famer?
« Reply #35 on: October 22, 2009, 01:19:47 PM »

Offline LB3533

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Quote from: Fafnir on October 22, 2009, 09:42:41 AM
Quote from: LB3533 on October 22, 2009, 09:34:48 AM
Antoine has better numbers...
No he doesn't.

Link

Efficiency wise, Sheed wins, but productivity wise, Toine wins, his per game and done in less years (less games).
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Re: Is Rasheed Wallace a Hall of Famer?
« Reply #36 on: October 22, 2009, 01:21:44 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Quote from: LB3533 on October 22, 2009, 01:19:47 PM
Quote from: Fafnir on October 22, 2009, 09:42:41 AM
Quote from: LB3533 on October 22, 2009, 09:34:48 AM
Antoine has better numbers...
No he doesn't.

Link

Efficiency wise, Sheed wins, but productivity wise, Toine wins, his per game and done in less years (less games).

Rasheed Wallace is in another class of player compared to Antoine Walker.
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Re: Is Rasheed Wallace a Hall of Famer?
« Reply #37 on: October 22, 2009, 02:06:45 PM »

Offline xmuscularghandix

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Quote from: IndeedProceed on October 22, 2009, 01:21:44 PM
Quote from: LB3533 on October 22, 2009, 01:19:47 PM
Quote from: Fafnir on October 22, 2009, 09:42:41 AM
Quote from: LB3533 on October 22, 2009, 09:34:48 AM
Antoine has better numbers...
No he doesn't.

Link

Efficiency wise, Sheed wins, but productivity wise, Toine wins, his per game and done in less years (less games).

Rasheed Wallace is in another class of player compared to Antoine Walker.

I'd say that Sheed and Toine are similar players, defensively Sheed has a huge edge, but Walker has an edge in his ball handling/ passing abilities. I'd take both of them over alot of players, they both have high IQ's, but both would be in the HOF if they'd just go down and play in the post.
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Re: Is Rasheed Wallace a Hall of Famer?
« Reply #38 on: October 22, 2009, 02:12:03 PM »

Offline moiso

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Quote from: Brickowski on October 22, 2009, 10:59:14 AM
He didn't quit on Detroit.  Dumars quit on him, first by trading away Billups and then by instituting a youth movement with the wrong players (e.g. Gordon and Villanueva).

Maybe Dumars hasn't yet figured out that Rodney Stuckey and Ben Gordon in the same backcourt isn't going to work, but you can't blame Sheed for realizing that the Pistons are headed nowhere.
You can blame anyone for not putting in effort at their job.  He made huge money and didn't put any effort in.  Thats quitting to me.  And why are we even having this conversation about a center/power forward who has career averages of 15 and 7?  Are there any 4's or 5's in there with career rebounding averages of less than 7?  The Armond Gilliam comment was nice, Redz.
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Re: Is Rasheed Wallace a Hall of Famer?
« Reply #39 on: October 22, 2009, 02:30:27 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Quote from: LB3533 on October 22, 2009, 01:19:47 PM
Quote from: Fafnir on October 22, 2009, 09:42:41 AM
Quote from: LB3533 on October 22, 2009, 09:34:48 AM
Antoine has better numbers...
No he doesn't.

Link

Efficiency wise, Sheed wins, but productivity wise, Toine wins, his per game and done in less years (less games).
Uh per minute averages are pretty close in rebounds and everything else but assists. Sheed took less shots, used less possessions, and turned the ball a hell of a lot fewer times. All while posting similar scoring and much much better defense.

Missing shots and turning the ball over is bad for your team.
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Re: Is Rasheed Wallace a Hall of Famer?
« Reply #40 on: October 22, 2009, 02:31:35 PM »

Offline xmuscularghandix

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Quote from: Fafnir on October 22, 2009, 02:30:27 PM
Quote from: LB3533 on October 22, 2009, 01:19:47 PM
Quote from: Fafnir on October 22, 2009, 09:42:41 AM
Quote from: LB3533 on October 22, 2009, 09:34:48 AM
Antoine has better numbers...
No he doesn't.

Link

Efficiency wise, Sheed wins, but productivity wise, Toine wins, his per game and done in less years (less games).
Uh per minute averages are pretty close in rebounds and everything else but assists. Sheed took less shots, used less possessions, and turned the ball a hell of a lot fewer times. All while posting similar scoring and much much better defense.

Missing shots and turning the ball over is bad for your team.

Sheeds TO starts are pretty impressive for a guy who's been a starter his whole career.
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Re: Is Rasheed Wallace a Hall of Famer?
« Reply #41 on: October 22, 2009, 03:24:13 PM »

Offline Brickowski

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Sheed's stats are those of an unselfish team player.  Team accomplishments should count for as much if not mre that individual stats in determining who gets into the HOF.

The NBA isn't a fantasy league.
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Re: Is Rasheed Wallace a Hall of Famer?
« Reply #42 on: October 22, 2009, 03:29:34 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Quote from: Brickowski on October 22, 2009, 03:24:13 PM
Sheed's stats are those of an unselfish team player.  Team accomplishments should count for as much if not mre that individual stats in determining who gets into the HOF.

The NBA isn't a fantasy league.

Well, that's why KC Jones is in there as a player, and why Horry might squeak in someday.  But "just" 1 or 2 championships and another Finals trip isn't gonna make up for those numbers.

I think Sheed has a chance to get in if these next couple of years go very very well, but he's not close as of today.  The personality stuff doesn't help either.
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Re: Is Rasheed Wallace a Hall of Famer?
« Reply #43 on: October 22, 2009, 03:32:03 PM »

Offline Brickowski

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What about Frank Ramsay, and Heinsohn, and Sharman... the list goes on.  Those guys won 9 championships in 11 years.  Any one of them could have led the league in scoring for multiple years playing on a bad team.

But I guess in today's NBA, losers like Kevin Durant are valued more than winning players, because marketing the exploits these bogus "stars" is the only way to keep an overexpanded league viable.
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Re: Is Rasheed Wallace a Hall of Famer?
« Reply #44 on: October 22, 2009, 03:38:12 PM »

Offline BrickJames

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Quote from: Brickowski on October 22, 2009, 03:32:03 PM
What about Frank Ramsay, and Heinsohn, and Sharman... the list goes on.  Those guys won 9 championships in 11 years.  Any one of them could have led the league in scoring for multiple years playing on a bad team.

But I guess in today's NBA, losers like Kevin Durant are valued more than winning players, because marketing the exploits these bogus "stars" is the only way to keep an overexpanded league viable.

Amen.

Add LeBrick and DWadehistle to that list (the jobbing of '06 does not count as winning in my book).
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