Author Topic: Same old Doc  (Read 16922 times)

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Re: Same old Doc
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2009, 07:07:08 AM »

Offline Greenbean

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Hudson has played well and his reward will be the opportunity to continue to work. He is way ahead of where Giddens and Walker were last year as higher draft choices which is impressive. Neither Doc, nor any coach with a loaded roster is going to give rookies (2nd round picks at that) huge roles on a team. I think you are forgetting the Doc of 3 years ago, who is still on record the only coach to give Gerald Green playing time.

It's same NEW Doc... Doc who coaches a great basketball team.

Re: Same old Doc
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2009, 08:05:25 AM »

Offline CoachBo

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Unbelievable!!!

Doc bashing for not getting a 58th pick in the NBA draft more playing time in the preseason when there are clearly, at the very least, 6-7 BENCH players in front of him with more experience and talent.

As for Doc not playing rookies, I will say that he does play rookies...when they are better than the other players at his position on the team. I have seen NOTHING from Hudson that says he is a better PG or player than Rondo, Daniels or House, the other PG type players on this team.

As for the overplaying comment, every single one of the top 10 players on the team in what will be Doc's rotation are averaging between 13.7 to 26.3 minutes per game with 8 of those players between 20 and 24.4 MPG. Where exactly is he overplaying players.

Doc has obviously seen what he needs to see from Hudson, Sweetney, Giddens, Williams and Walker from hours and hours of training camp, practices, scrimmages and preseason games to know that they just aren't as good as the 10 healthy players in front of them on the depth chart. So over the last two days Doc decided to build some chemistry on his 1st and 2nd teams before turning tomorrows preseason closing game over to the bottom third of the depth chart.

Does Doc really need to prove to his detractors that he is making the right decisions by making every training session film, practice film, scrimmage film, preseason game film and audio conversation of every player on the team available to Celtics fans online so that they can see and hear what he sees to justify his decisions because it sounds like it's going to be the only way to get Doc detractors to stop with some of these truly unwarranted observations.

And sorry but this is one is even a bit silly.

And one. People need to get their arms around the idea that Lester's just not going to make a difference on a fairly loaded basketball team.
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Re: Same old Doc
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2009, 08:12:46 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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It's not like Hudson's doomed to the bench and/or D-league for the entire season. It's definitely a keeper, and Doc, along with the other players have said that a thousand times. Chill out.
I heard Oriene Greene was a keeper too.

Hudson baring some sort of insane spate of injuries won't get any meaningful time this year. Nor is it clear he's an NBA level player.

Re: Same old Doc
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2009, 09:26:34 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

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It's not like Hudson's doomed to the bench and/or D-league for the entire season. It's definitely a keeper, and Doc, along with the other players have said that a thousand times. Chill out.
I heard Oriene Greene was a keeper too.


oriene greene was never going to be an nba player if he didn't get a shot going. He was a good defender for a rookie but his offense was in the nbdl level. He couldn't penetrate to score nor pass well and he couldn't shoot. Rondo on the other hand can pretty much penetrate at will against any pg's in the league

lets just see what hudson does tonight with some time on the court. Watch for his plus/minus rating stats especialy

Re: Same old Doc
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2009, 09:29:30 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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It's not like Hudson's doomed to the bench and/or D-league for the entire season. It's definitely a keeper, and Doc, along with the other players have said that a thousand times. Chill out.
I heard Oriene Greene was a keeper too.


oriene greene was never going to be an nba player if he didn't get a shot going. He was a good defender for a rookie but his offense was in the nbdl level. He couldn't penetrate to score nor pass well and he couldn't shoot. Rondo on the other hand can pretty much penetrate at will against any pg's in the league

lets just see what hudson does tonight with some time on the court. Watch for his plus/minus rating stats especialy
When he's playing against Clevelands bench? I don't think thats a great way to tell if he's NBA ready.

Also +/- isn't a good thing to look at when you're looking at a single game and/or shorter minutes.

Re: Same old Doc
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2009, 10:59:19 AM »

Offline ma11l

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If Hudson is getting meaningful minutes in the regular season that means the team is going to be in a lot of trouble. 


He's been a nice preseason story, and I'm sure he'll play plenty tonight, but he'll be sitting on the end of the bench with a suit on or playing in the D-League once the real games start.  I think he's played well and is a good insurance policy as a stopgap if there are minor injuries in the backcourt, but if he has to play a lot that means there's been a serious injury to Rondo, House, Daniels, or Ray and that would be tough for this team to overcome.
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Re: Same old Doc
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2009, 11:47:52 AM »

Offline SalmonAndMashedPotatoes

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Unbelievable!!!

Doc bashing for not getting a 58th pick in the NBA draft more playing time in the preseason when there are clearly, at the very least, 6-7 BENCH players in front of him with more experience and talent.

As for Doc not playing rookies, I will say that he does play rookies...when they are better than the other players at his position on the team. I have seen NOTHING from Hudson that says he is a better PG or player than Rondo, Daniels or House, the other PG type players on this team.

As for the overplaying comment, every single one of the top 10 players on the team in what will be Doc's rotation are averaging between 13.7 to 26.3 minutes per game with 8 of those players between 20 and 24.4 MPG. Where exactly is he overplaying players.

Doc has obviously seen what he needs to see from Hudson, Sweetney, Giddens, Williams and Walker from hours and hours of training camp, practices, scrimmages and preseason games to know that they just aren't as good as the 10 healthy players in front of them on the depth chart. So over the last two days Doc decided to build some chemistry on his 1st and 2nd teams before turning tomorrows preseason closing game over to the bottom third of the depth chart.

Does Doc really need to prove to his detractors that he is making the right decisions by making every training session film, practice film, scrimmage film, preseason game film and audio conversation of every player on the team available to Celtics fans online so that they can see and hear what he sees to justify his decisions because it sounds like it's going to be the only way to get Doc detractors to stop with some of these truly unwarranted observations.

And sorry but this is one is even a bit silly.

All this might be true, but the fact remains is that when the Knicks went small with Nate Robinson and Chris Duhon in the backcourt in the 4th quarter, that was a perfect time to get some minutes for Hudson.  I mean, it's agreed by almost everyone that Hudson needs to work on his PG skills, so why not use crunch time minutes against Nate Robinson to speed that development along?  Hudson actually has regular season value as the only Celtic reserve with the ability to defend the small, speedy guards in the league, like Robinson, Lou Williams, Aaron Brooks, etc., and last night was a perfect time to see how he'd fare in such a situation.  Instead, we saw Eddie House give half effort on defense, and watched Giddens miss 3 layups.  What regular season benefit do we get from that? 

If Doc had been playing had been playing his regular season 2nd unit down the stretch (with House/Daniels/Scal/Baby/Wallace), then maybe there's some validity to the point about getting that unit some late game experience, but that wasn't the case. 

Maybe Doc wanted to see how Giddens could guard a point guard.  Okay, there's value in that.  But isn't there more value in seeing if your rookie point guard can play some defense against one of the quickest point guards in the league, especially when playing defense on those types of players is one of the unique things that he brings to the team?  I mean, if the regular season comes along, and Rondo's out for some reason, and the other team plays two point guards down the stretch, I sure as hell hope Doc turns to Hudson and not Giddens.  Not because Giddens can't defend point guards, but because Giddens can't score.

If Hudson is getting meaningful minutes in the regular season that means the team is going to be in a lot of trouble.

Not true; the 10th man on this team is probably in line for 10 minutes a night.  Hudson could handle those minutes just as well as Scal, Giddens, TA, or Walker.  And since he can provide legitimate PG defense against the small, quick, speedy type point guards, he actually does have regular season utility.  Doc missed a huge chance last night to give him a look in a situation where he could have been effective and gained experience.
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Re: Same old Doc
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2009, 11:59:36 AM »

Offline Chris

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I am having Marcus Banks flashbacks.  Please stop this before I start to hate Hudson as much as I hate Marcus Banks.

He is going to play tonight with the other scrubs.  When the regular season starts, he is going to be on the bench until there are injuries, or he proves he is both ready, and better than the other players in front of them. 

We are watching a team that has a chance to be one of the best ever.  If anyone is going to get caught up in how many minutes the 15th guy plays in a preseason game, then I think their priorities are out of whack. 

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Re: Same old Doc
« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2009, 12:00:39 PM »

Offline twinbree

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Well to be fair to him you can't teach an old doc new tricks   ;D sorry I couldn't resist.
But seriously though I haven't had a problem with the way he's managed the minutes this preseason and I'm often critical of the minute management. He already said the bench would play most of today so nothing wrong with letting the main rotation guys get good minutes yesterday and besides they didn't play that much.
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Re: Same old Doc
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2009, 12:01:37 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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I think you're missing the big picture Salmon, Doc doesn't think Hudson is ready for that role to start the season. Last nights game was our final tune up, with pretty much regular rotations for most of the game.

If Hudson hasn't earned a spot in the rotation yet he didn't really have much of a place in the game with the goal of being the final tune up in mind.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2009, 12:28:12 PM by Fafnir »

Re: Same old Doc
« Reply #25 on: October 21, 2009, 12:24:58 PM »

Offline Rondo_is_better

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I am having Marcus Banks flashbacks.  Please stop this before I start to hate Hudson as much as I hate Marcus Banks.

He is going to play tonight with the other scrubs.  When the regular season starts, he is going to be on the bench until there are injuries, or he proves he is both ready, and better than the other players in front of them. 

We are watching a team that has a chance to be one of the best ever.  If anyone is going to get caught up in how many minutes the 15th guy plays in a preseason game, then I think their priorities are out of whack. 

...I need a drink.

Hahahahahaha why do we ALWAYS focus on guys 10 through  15??

-Scal
-Tony
-Giddens
-Hudson
-Sweetney

= 90% of what we've talked about. TP Chris.
Grab a few boards, keep the TO's under 14, close out on shooters and we'll win.

Re: Same old Doc
« Reply #26 on: October 21, 2009, 12:27:35 PM »

Offline dark_lord

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As most of you know i'm not a big fan of Rivers and we won it a couple of years mainly because we had a stacked team with kg.

The biggest crap i don't like about his coaching is his substitution patterns and not giving his rookies a chance to gain experience.

I thought maybe he changed that 2 games ago but he is up to his old tricks playing lester hudson a total of 4 mins the past two games. What has the rookie done? Basically play his butt off, make little mistakes and score points in a variety of ways. He only played 3 mins last game and had a plus 7 on the court. Why make him sit so that his eyes needs to gain the experience on the court instead of sitting him for playing like a "rookie" which makes more sense. I personally think he uses some rookie initation crap that is not necessary all the time.

The more he overplays his stars, the more the bench gets rusty, the less chance we have finishing the season with everyone healthy


****....substitution patterns during PRESEASON?!?!?!  seriously, this is the most bogus thing to be critical of doc for.  preseason is made to experiment, showcase, and find what may or may not work. 

Re: Same old Doc
« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2009, 12:31:48 PM »

Offline GKC

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As most of you know i'm not a big fan of Rivers and we won it a couple of years mainly because we had a stacked team with kg.

The biggest crap i don't like about his coaching is his substitution patterns and not giving his rookies a chance to gain experience.

I thought maybe he changed that 2 games ago but he is up to his old tricks playing lester hudson a total of 4 mins the past two games. What has the rookie done? Basically play his butt off, make little mistakes and score points in a variety of ways. He only played 3 mins last game and had a plus 7 on the court. Why make him sit so that his eyes needs to gain the experience on the court instead of sitting him for playing like a "rookie" which makes more sense. I personally think he uses some rookie initation crap that is not necessary all the time.

The more he overplays his stars, the more the bench gets rusty, the less chance we have finishing the season with everyone healthy




DOc did say the most important part of the preseason was to test different lineups to see how other teams would defend them, hence things such as really big or really small lineups, or mixing Rondo with the bench / quisy with the starters.

Lester might get some burn in the regular season (which he may not even crack the rotation by the way), so I would prefer Doc testing out what works and what the defense gives him.
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Re: Same old Doc
« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2009, 12:41:07 PM »

Offline xmuscularghandix

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I actually think Doc has done a great job with the rotation in the pre-season ... ramping up the minutes for the starters, and yet giving enough minutes to the bench in order to get a feel for how they will perform in the regular season. The priority has to be getting the starters ready to roll, and that's what Doc's been doing. The way he's passed out the minutes has been just about right, although I would personally give the Big Three at least a few minutes tomorrow, (but I also understand the rationale behind sitting them out).

I think Doc's done a perfect job this preseason. And Lesters' minutes reflect that he's really opened the teams eyes on him.

Re: Same old Doc
« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2009, 12:48:49 PM »

Offline HomeRunBaker

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I have seen NOTHING from Hudson that says he is a better PG or player than Rondo, Daniels or House, the other PG type players on this team.


Are you serious?! He is already a better defender than house by default. I don't care if house gets a million years experience , nobody feels confident with his defense especially one on one. Also he by default a better shooter than daniels and rondo and more than half of the celtics team. Is he a vet ? no. But so what. he has hustled out there, hasn't made too many mistakes and hasn't turned the ball over.

I personally can't care what house can bring except being a 3 pt specialist and energy guy wit daniels showing me nothing in the pre season except inconsistancy play.

Experience is not everything and shouldn't be everything when you plan how you will distribute the minutes.

Let me guess.....you are one of the posters who feel that Doc ruined Gerald Green's career by "jerking around his minutes", right? 

Doc's job is to get his top 11 players prepared to be ready to start the season on Tuesday night while giving others the opportunity to show what they may offer in the future.  I'd say Doc has done a fantastic job in preparing his rotation for the regular season, specifically Garnett, while allowing Giddens to show us all that he isn't an NBA player and allowing Hudson to show us that he may have a future as a rotation player in a couple years.