Pats-Jets 9-20

[Fafnir]

I thought the Super Bowl loss would humble Brady and Belichick, it didn't.  I thought the knee injury would humble Brady, it didn't.  Maybe this early season loss to a heated rival will do it?


This team simply isn't the close to the teams that were winning Super Bowls.  The O line isn't protecting Brady, when he does have time he is missing his throws.  There is little to no leadership on the defense.


At best they are a playoff team right now, both sides of the ball have a long way to go to become a Super Bowl team.  I'm not saying they can't do it, I'm just saying they have a long, long, way to go.

Id say that is a pretty strong comment to make when the team didnt have its leading receiver from the past two years and the defensive rookie of the year last year playing in the game. 

Every team has injury. When the Pats were winning Super Bowls they were able to separate themselves from the league by masking or replacing those injured players through their depth. Unfortunately, I'm not sure that's still the case.

Could be, but its still very early in the season. Plenty of teams win SBs or contend even when they start out playing uneven ball.

It is unfair to expect Brady to be the same QB he was two years ago right away. The O-line I'd be less forgiving of.

[Rondo2287]

-Your QB has a good pocket presence and his internal clock is working correctly
-Your O-Line is doing a decent job with the blitz(Say what you will, with the ammount of times the Jets blitz if you told people before the game he would not be sacked once people would call you crazy)  

But neither of those points are true.

Brady was hurried and rattled all day. He didn't have good pocket presence because he was unable to make plays against those blitzes, which is what you have to do to beat them. Its what Brady used to do certainly.

The O-line did a terrible job, the Pats couldn't run the ball or protect Brady. The Jets dominated the line of scrimmage.

You're focusing on sacks and trying to make the game seem better than it was.

I think the pats running game was actually alot better than you are making it out to be.  They averaged 4.2 yards per carry, which is .4 higher than the jets did yesterday.  Fred Taylor carried the ball 8 times a 5.8 yards per carry clip.  

And Brady's internal clock told him when to get rid of the ball to avoid a sack.  He did not get sacked.  I dont see what part of that is incorrect.  You are misunderstanding what I mean by pocket presence.  I mean having a good feel for where the pressure is coming from and avoiding that pressure.  Unfortunately they didnt make enough plays against the blitzes to win.  

[Fafnir]

-Your QB has a good pocket presence and his internal clock is working correctly
-Your O-Line is doing a decent job with the blitz(Say what you will, with the ammount of times the Jets blitz if you told people before the game he would not be sacked once people would call you crazy)  

But neither of those points are true.

Brady was hurried and rattled all day. He didn't have good pocket presence because he was unable to make plays against those blitzes, which is what you have to do to beat them. Its what Brady used to do certainly.

The O-line did a terrible job, the Pats couldn't run the ball or protect Brady. The Jets dominated the line of scrimmage.

You're focusing on sacks and trying to make the game seem better than it was.

I think the pats running game was actually alot better than you are making it out to be.  They averaged 4.2 yards per carry, which is .4 higher than the jets did yesterday.  Fred Taylor carried the ball 8 times a 5.8 yards per carry clip.  

But he couldn't convert a big 3rd and one when he had too. Also NWE didn't rush the ball well despite the pressure because other than a 3 solid runs by Taylor, and 1 by Marouney they weren't able to consistently rush the ball.

Not that they really tried all that much, the offense is built around passing the ball. In the end that's what they did when the game was on the line.

And Brady's internal clock told him when to get rid of the ball to avoid a sack.  He did not get sacked.  I dont see what part of that is incorrect.  You are misunderstanding what I mean by pocket presence.  I mean having a good feel for where the pressure is coming from and avoiding that pressure.  Unfortunately they didnt make enough plays against the blitzes to win. 

I think you're just sugar coating the fact that the pressure was succesfull. What does it matter that Brady got rid of the ball quickly if he didnt' do anything with it?

Its not like anyone was criticizing Brady for holding on to the ball too long, ala Big Ben.

[nickagneta]

-Your QB has a good pocket presence and his internal clock is working correctly
-Your O-Line is doing a decent job with the blitz(Say what you will, with the ammount of times the Jets blitz if you told people before the game he would not be sacked once people would call you crazy)  

But neither of those points are true.

Brady was hurried and rattled all day. He didn't have good pocket presence because he was unable to make plays against those blitzes, which is what you have to do to beat them. Its what Brady used to do certainly.

The O-line did a terrible job, the Pats couldn't run the ball or protect Brady. The Jets dominated the line of scrimmage.

You're focusing on sacks and trying to make the game seem better than it was.

I think the pats running game was actually alot better than you are making it out to be.  They averaged 4.2 yards per carry, which is .4 higher than the jets did yesterday.  Fred Taylor carried the ball 8 times a 5.8 yards per carry clip.  

And Brady's internal clock told him when to get rid of the ball to avoid a sack.  He did not get sacked.  I dont see what part of that is incorrect.  You are misunderstanding what I mean by pocket presence.  I mean having a good feel for where the pressure is coming from and avoiding that pressure.  Unfortunately they didnt make enough plays against the blitzes to win.  

Rondo, except for three rushes a 12 and 13 yarder by Taylor and a 12 yarder by Maroney. The rushing attack was pathetic. Worse than pathetic. Take those three runs away and the ground game got 46 yards on 17 carries for 2.7 yards per carry. The ground game could not get any consistency or push going all game. It was horrible.

[Rondo2287]

Ok welll.  Those rushes did happen.  If you take away the good runs by most teams you probably wont be left with stellar results.  This team isnt looking to run the ball 30 times a game.  They are looking to run it 20 times a game, which they did. 

Fafnir I already said and you agreed with an incompletion is better than a sack so I dont know where you are going with that.  I agree the pressure got to him, all I said was the guy didnt get sacked and I thought that was good, apparently not getting sacked is a bad thing so Im gonna move on. 

[Fafnir]

Ok welll.  Those rushes did happen.  If you take away the good runs by most teams you probably wont be left with stellar results.  This team isnt looking to run the ball 30 times a game.  They are looking to run it 20 times a game, which they did. 

Fafnir I already said and you agreed with an incompletion is better than a sack so I dont know where you are going with that.  I agree the pressure got to him, all I said was the guy didnt get sacked and I thought that was good, apparently not getting sacked is a bad thing so Im gonna move on. 

I think in the end I don't think of "pocket presence" as just avoiding sacks. I think it means you sense the rush, buy time by moving in the pocket, and make plays.

Brady sensed the rush, and threw the ball away or off target. Thats not good pocket presence.

[Rondo2287]

Ok well if you dont consider throwing the ball away to avoid a sack good pocket presence I dont know what to tell you.  And again I said we didnt make enough plays against the blitzes to win the game.

I am confident if welker is in the game the pats win though.  Unfortunately he wasnt and we dont know how bad his health is so it may be a serious thing.  However when you add up the dropped passes and the passes defended by the jets D I think that was a huge against the pats. 

[yall hate]

Brady's pocket presence was fine. he avoided the rush or got the ball of to open recievers.  the problem was that he doesnt have confidence in his knee and thus was throwing off balance which messed with his accuracy. 

[Rondo2287]

Brady's pocket presence was fine. he avoided the rush or got the ball of to open recievers.  the problem was that he doesnt have confidence in his knee and thus was throwing off balance which messed with his accuracy. 

Exactly.  My only problem was it seemed like the receivers werent getting much seperation at all.  Which you would think they would considering the blitz.  Im thinking they didnt get the seperation because the blitzes forced passes out before the receivers could run their routes correctly which leads back to the lack of screens and slants.  I think this would have been a perfect old fashioned faulk, troy brown game with faulk catching screens and brown slants.  Unfortunately faulk only had one catch.  They sent sammy morris out in patterns more than I would like instead of letting faulk play that role. 

[yall hate]

I also can't help but note the Pats 'dominance' in the first half.  They controlled the time of possession.  They controlled the field position.  They had to settle for 3 FG's.  If they execute better in the first half it is a drastically different game, but they didnt. 

I dont think this is doomsday for the team.  I think they played a good team and could/should have beaten them.  But they didnt.  They need to go work on some things and come out a bit more efficient and effective and they will be fine. 

But you know that until they beat the blitz they will now be seeing constant blitzes or threats of blitzes...copycat league.

[Fafnir]

But you know that until they beat the blitz they will now be seeing constant blitzes or threats of blitzes...copycat league.

That'll be good for the Pats in the end. I don't think most teams can copy Rex Ryan's schemes and make them work effectively.

[Rondo2287]

I also can't help but note the Pats 'dominance' in the first half.  They controlled the time of possession.  They controlled the field position.  They had to settle for 3 FG's.  If they execute better in the first half it is a drastically different game, but they didnt. 

I dont think this is doomsday for the team.  I think they played a good team and could/should have beaten them.  But they didnt.  They need to go work on some things and come out a bit more efficient and effective and they will be fine. 

But you know that until they beat the blitz they will now be seeing constant blitzes or threats of blitzes...copycat league.

I agree, I think think the thing is, the Jets are a much better team than we all thought they were coming into the season.  That defense was incredibly good. The fact of the matter is that we as patriots fans are spoiled because of their constant success.  In the NFL good teams are supposed to win at home, and thats what the Jets did.  The years that the pats won the superbowl they never swept the division I dont think.  

We will see if Brady has a Tim Tebow, "Nobody will work harder," moment in him.  

[nickagneta]

Ok welll.  Those rushes did happen.  If you take away the good runs by most teams you probably wont be left with stellar results.  This team isnt looking to run the ball 30 times a game.  They are looking to run it 20 times a game, which they did. 

True but there is no coach in the game, there is no coach coaching football anywhere, that is going to judge their entire running game based on numbers that severely effect the overall numbers.

A perfect example is last night's Dallas-New York game. The G-Men had 2 long runs but take those away and their running numbers as well as the observation as to what was happening on the grid iron was that their running game was awful. Dallas had 3-5 long runs. Take those away and the Boys were still averaging close to 5 yards per carry and their running game was dominant. If you watched the game, that was evident.

What I'm saying is you can not, and no coach will ever, judge their running game based on a couple of runs and how they effect the overall numbers. 85% of the time that the Pats ran the ball yesterday, they were pathetic. And that's how you judge an entire running game.

[crownsy]

I also can't help but note the Pats 'dominance' in the first half.  They controlled the time of possession.  They controlled the field position.  They had to settle for 3 FG's.  If they execute better in the first half it is a drastically different game, but they didnt. 

I dont think this is doomsday for the team.  I think they played a good team and could/should have beaten them.  But they didnt.  They need to go work on some things and come out a bit more efficient and effective and they will be fine. 

But you know that until they beat the blitz they will now be seeing constant blitzes or threats of blitzes...copycat league.

I agree, I think think the thing is, the Jets are a much better team than we all thought they were coming into the season.  That defense was incredibly good. The fact of the matter is that we as patriots fans are spoiled because of their constant success.  In the NFL good teams are supposed to win at home, and thats what the Jets did.  The years that the pats won the superbowl they never swept the division I dont think.  

We will see if Brady has a Tim Tebow, "Nobody will work harder," moment in him.  

I hope he doesn't, i'd hate to have to dislike Brady as much as i do tim tebow's self righteousness...

Back on topic, I thought they played alright. The defense, while AGAIN malinged on the post game and ESPN show, played well i thought. The Jets had something like 75 total yards of offense in the first half, and while they strung together a few nice drives near the end of the game, that's to be expected when you offense can't keep itself on the field.

Thought tom looked out of synch, bad touches on alot of his throws. Alot of that was the pressure he was under, but some of it wasen't. Jets played a heck of a game on defense, but thier were some REAL bad overthrows when he had time. Just rust i think.

LEt's not forget that when manning was coming back with the colts last year from his knee injury, the first 6 weeks he didn't look good. Their we're alot of "Is peyton still hurt/ losing it?" questions, but around week 5 or 6, he started to look good, and by the end of the season, he looked back in form. It takes awhile to get the NFL timing back.

Tough loss, because i hate the jets, and feel like, as others above me have noted, we should have been up 17-21 points instead of 9 based on where the defense and Special teams started the offense out on those three drive. When your defense is giving you starting spots at the 50, opp. 35, ect, you need to score TD's to win in this league.

We didn't this week, so we lost.

[Rondo2287]

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extra_points/2009/09/brady_we_havent.html

Brady denied that the Jets' pressure made him uncomfortable to the point of stifling the offense.

"Well, I wouldn't say that. There were no sacks. Anytime you throw 47 times they're going to hurry you from time to time. It's not like you're going to stand back there for 47 attempts untouched," he said.