Author Topic: Lester Hudson!  (Read 9118 times)

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Re: Lester Hudson!
« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2009, 08:56:49 PM »

Online slamtheking

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How many people would be anxious to fill our final roster spot with the likes of Robert Dozier, Chinemu Elonu, Emir Prelzdic, or Ahmad Nivins?  Because those are the two guys taken after and the two guys taken before Hudson.  I mean if Hudson was potentially wearing any other uniform, would anybody really want him over some random vet out there?  I think people are becoming a little too in love with young green talent. 

That said, I'm fine if he signs here.  But if there's a better option out there, cut him.  We won't regret it.  Best case scenario is that he's a bench player in this league 3 years from now.  I think we'll recover. 

You didn't explain your post the way you wanted to, did you?

Here's the thing: none of the guys you mentioned are guards, they're forwards. Hudson is. To be fair, ESPN listed him as a SG. Now, that all said, if Hudson shows he can be a backup PG, so be it. If he doesn't, so be that too. But, don't assume he'll fail without even giving him a chance. Bench player in 3 years at best? Come on, we don't know that.

I was in a rush, but I think you see enough to get the gist.  And I'm not ruling him out.  I'm simply saying that there's about a 90% chance he's out of the league in 3 years, about 7% chance he becomes a fringe rotation player, about a 2% chance he becomes a rotation player, and probably even less than 1% chance he ever becomes anything the C's are going to regret not having 3 years from now. 

I mean even if he turns into the next Eddie House, who cares?  The current version of Eddie House will last us as long as the Big Three are here and after that, when we start rebuilding, we won't particularly need an Eddie House.  And if we do find ourselves needing an undersized shooting guard, they're about a dime a dozen on the FA market. 

Again, I'm OK with signing him.  I don't think there are many scenarios when this current team will use either Hudson or a vet backup PG this season.  However, I don't understand why people are so anxious to sign him. 
keep in mind that IF Hudson makes the team, it's as the 15th player.  Not the game roster.  Not a player actually getting game time off the bench.   A 15th player on a roster is a gamble or more optimistically, an investment in the future by the team.  That's all Hudson should be considered, nothing more.   Personally, I think he's worth a serious look in camp.  Danny's shown his best talent so far is drafting.  That alone gives me reason to think he could make the team even though he was drafted that late.  Danny's picked several players late in the draft that, if the draft were redone, they'd have gone much higher--Gomes and Powe are prime examples.  Even his first rounders would have gone higher like Al, Perk and Rondo.

The real issue with the team is that they have 2 spots taken by players they would rather not have -- TA and Veal.  They're the 11th and 12th men on the roster.  (realistically, Walker nor Giddens is getting ahead of them on Doc's depth chart)  Those are the roster spots that really need to be filled by a backup PG that might get game minutes.  Unfortunately, those aren't freeing up until the trade deadline at best.  If Hudson shows the potential to bring instant offense off the bench, keep him for next year.  Bear in mind that moving Eddie at the trade deadline doesn't necessarily hinge on Hudson's development.  Eddie's contract is just another bargaining chip if Danny can use it to bring in someone better that fills the team's needs.  I don't see House going anywhere unless the C's get someone that can fill Eddie's shoes and then some.

Re: Lester Hudson!
« Reply #31 on: September 16, 2009, 09:01:20 PM »

Online slamtheking

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You really think this guy is gonna be able to contribute at an Eddie House level half way through his rookie year?

Not really, that's just the absolute best-case scenario.  Really, what I'm talking about is a scenario where a starter goes down and you can trade for a midseason replacement if you package the contracts of Scal and TA, but you can get someone much better if you have the option of throwing in House's contract as well.  If Hudson is proven to be useful as a bench scoring guard, maybe not as good of a shooter but more diverse in his offensive capabilities, then Ainge may feel comfortable knowing that he can afford to part with House if necessary and flip a second-round pick for a vet-minimum guard.  Imagine if Pierce goes down with an injury where it's not sure if he can come back in time for the playoffs and having the flexibility to include House in a package allows the team to land someone this forum lusts after, like Nocioni.

I think that if Hudson makes the team and gets playing time beyond the D-League, there's a chance that House won't be back after his current contract runs out.  I expect House to regress toward the mean and not shoot as well as last season, so having Hudson also gives the Celtics leverage in any contract negotiations if they want to bring House back, but only on a relatively cheap contract. 

It's just a question of if Hudson makes the team.  I feel that he's the sort of player who is either able to play in the NBA or not and that will become apparent relatively quickly once he plays against NBA talent.  If he can play, I think he will be able to contribute immediately and won't be a project who needs to be sent to the D-League.

Darn near read my mind and took the words out of my mouth.  TP for you.

The one thing I'd add is that I don't think Hudson will get PT this year regardless of how well he plays in practice and/or D-League.  I do see him as a possible replacement for Eddie next year if he makes the team this year.  Based on this college production, he brings more variety in his offense than House, seems to offer some rebounding as well and could be a better defender.  He might not have Eddie's range (at this point) but he supposedly has a better ability to get his own shot which is something Eddie does not do well.  If this is how it plays out, House becomes that extra chip at the trading deadline (to offer with TA and Veal) for an even better support player on the bench.  That could be Nocioni, maybe Hinrich depending on how Chicago is doing (this would be the true backup PG letting Daniels backup Ray and PP but also someone that could be paired with Hudson in the back court next year off the bench--putting Daniels at SF where everyone would like him).
I disagree.  I think you both are being a little over optimistic.  Not having Eddie House in the playoffs would cripple our bench.  And if a starter goes down, adding House into a trade would probably wouldn't save the day.
We'll have to agree to disagree.  Losing Eddie doesn't automatically cripple the bench.  As I mentioned, I don't expect House to be moved unless it's for someone better.  I would definitely include Hinrich in that category.   Hinrich plays PG far better, can defend bigger players better and is a very solid shooter/scorer even if he doesn't hit from 25 feet when he's hot (like Eddie can).  Hinrich would also mean that Daniels could be used to just focus on backing up the 2/3 without worrying about bringing the ball up on offense. 

Re: Lester Hudson!
« Reply #32 on: September 16, 2009, 09:20:05 PM »

Offline Jon

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How many people would be anxious to fill our final roster spot with the likes of Robert Dozier, Chinemu Elonu, Emir Prelzdic, or Ahmad Nivins?  Because those are the two guys taken after and the two guys taken before Hudson.  I mean if Hudson was potentially wearing any other uniform, would anybody really want him over some random vet out there?  I think people are becoming a little too in love with young green talent. 

That said, I'm fine if he signs here.  But if there's a better option out there, cut him.  We won't regret it.  Best case scenario is that he's a bench player in this league 3 years from now.  I think we'll recover. 

You didn't explain your post the way you wanted to, did you?

Here's the thing: none of the guys you mentioned are guards, they're forwards. Hudson is. To be fair, ESPN listed him as a SG. Now, that all said, if Hudson shows he can be a backup PG, so be it. If he doesn't, so be that too. But, don't assume he'll fail without even giving him a chance. Bench player in 3 years at best? Come on, we don't know that.

I was in a rush, but I think you see enough to get the gist.  And I'm not ruling him out.  I'm simply saying that there's about a 90% chance he's out of the league in 3 years, about 7% chance he becomes a fringe rotation player, about a 2% chance he becomes a rotation player, and probably even less than 1% chance he ever becomes anything the C's are going to regret not having 3 years from now. 

I mean even if he turns into the next Eddie House, who cares?  The current version of Eddie House will last us as long as the Big Three are here and after that, when we start rebuilding, we won't particularly need an Eddie House.  And if we do find ourselves needing an undersized shooting guard, they're about a dime a dozen on the FA market. 

Again, I'm OK with signing him.  I don't think there are many scenarios when this current team will use either Hudson or a vet backup PG this season.  However, I don't understand why people are so anxious to sign him. 
keep in mind that IF Hudson makes the team, it's as the 15th player.  Not the game roster.  Not a player actually getting game time off the bench.   A 15th player on a roster is a gamble or more optimistically, an investment in the future by the team.  That's all Hudson should be considered, nothing more.   Personally, I think he's worth a serious look in camp.  Danny's shown his best talent so far is drafting.  That alone gives me reason to think he could make the team even though he was drafted that late.  Danny's picked several players late in the draft that, if the draft were redone, they'd have gone much higher--Gomes and Powe are prime examples.  Even his first rounders would have gone higher like Al, Perk and Rondo.

The real issue with the team is that they have 2 spots taken by players they would rather not have -- TA and Veal.  They're the 11th and 12th men on the roster.  (realistically, Walker nor Giddens is getting ahead of them on Doc's depth chart)  Those are the roster spots that really need to be filled by a backup PG that might get game minutes.  Unfortunately, those aren't freeing up until the trade deadline at best.  If Hudson shows the potential to bring instant offense off the bench, keep him for next year.  Bear in mind that moving Eddie at the trade deadline doesn't necessarily hinge on Hudson's development.  Eddie's contract is just another bargaining chip if Danny can use it to bring in someone better that fills the team's needs.  I don't see House going anywhere unless the C's get someone that can fill Eddie's shoes and then some.

I'm not ruling out that Hudson could be the next Gomes or Powe.  But for everyone who lauds Danny for getting these players that late in the draft, they have to realize that some GMs intentionally pass on these player knowing that there's a decent chance they become role players.  The fact of the matter is that role player like Powe and Gomes really only have value to contenders.  I mean look at Gomes.  He did alright for the C's when he was here, but he certainly wasn't a difference maker.  Same with him in Minnie.  If they didn't have him, what, they would have lost a game or two more last year?  And so what, that means they would have missed the playoffs by another game or two. 

The reason that Powe and Gomes were available when they were was because a lot of teams said to themselves, a role player isn't going to get them to the next level, so they might as well roll the dice on a project and hope he turns into a superstar. 

Is this a critique of Danny?  No.  Through sifting through what's left in the draft, he's obtained quality role players at a very cheap price.  But it's getting late in the game now.  By the time Hudson pans out--if he does pan out--the C's window will be closed and role players won't be of that much use to them.  Plus, role players like House are readily available.  Remember that House didn't opt out of his contract because he realized no one would want him at anything more than a couple million a year. 

So if Lester Hudson is the 15th man, I'm OK with it.  But if Danny thinks that some vet PG is a better fit, I'm OK with that too.  Plus, if we don't sign Hudson and three years from now he's Eddie House, likely he'll be available for a small contract if we want him back. 

Re: Lester Hudson!
« Reply #33 on: September 16, 2009, 10:09:24 PM »

Offline liam

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How many people would be anxious to fill our final roster spot with the likes of Robert Dozier, Chinemu Elonu, Emir Prelzdic, or Ahmad Nivins?  Because those are the two guys taken after and the two guys taken before Hudson.  I mean if Hudson was potentially wearing any other uniform, would anybody really want him over some random vet out there?  I think people are becoming a little too in love with young green talent. 

That said, I'm fine if he signs here.  But if there's a better option out there, cut him.  We won't regret it.  Best case scenario is that he's a bench player in this league 3 years from now.  I think we'll recover. 

You didn't explain your post the way you wanted to, did you?

Here's the thing: none of the guys you mentioned are guards, they're forwards. Hudson is. To be fair, ESPN listed him as a SG. Now, that all said, if Hudson shows he can be a backup PG, so be it. If he doesn't, so be that too. But, don't assume he'll fail without even giving him a chance. Bench player in 3 years at best? Come on, we don't know that.

Yeah, he's Ben Gordon at best and Marcus Banks at worst!
No. At worst, he is far worse than Banks. At worse he is like countless guys who entered the draft but never made it to the NBA.

What has Banks done in the NBA? I guess he got that way over priced contract from Phoenix, when they could have had Rondo.  Thanks Marcus!

Re: Lester Hudson!
« Reply #34 on: September 17, 2009, 08:12:57 AM »

Online slamtheking

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How many people would be anxious to fill our final roster spot with the likes of Robert Dozier, Chinemu Elonu, Emir Prelzdic, or Ahmad Nivins?  Because those are the two guys taken after and the two guys taken before Hudson.  I mean if Hudson was potentially wearing any other uniform, would anybody really want him over some random vet out there?  I think people are becoming a little too in love with young green talent. 

That said, I'm fine if he signs here.  But if there's a better option out there, cut him.  We won't regret it.  Best case scenario is that he's a bench player in this league 3 years from now.  I think we'll recover. 

You didn't explain your post the way you wanted to, did you?

Here's the thing: none of the guys you mentioned are guards, they're forwards. Hudson is. To be fair, ESPN listed him as a SG. Now, that all said, if Hudson shows he can be a backup PG, so be it. If he doesn't, so be that too. But, don't assume he'll fail without even giving him a chance. Bench player in 3 years at best? Come on, we don't know that.

I was in a rush, but I think you see enough to get the gist.  And I'm not ruling him out.  I'm simply saying that there's about a 90% chance he's out of the league in 3 years, about 7% chance he becomes a fringe rotation player, about a 2% chance he becomes a rotation player, and probably even less than 1% chance he ever becomes anything the C's are going to regret not having 3 years from now. 

I mean even if he turns into the next Eddie House, who cares?  The current version of Eddie House will last us as long as the Big Three are here and after that, when we start rebuilding, we won't particularly need an Eddie House.  And if we do find ourselves needing an undersized shooting guard, they're about a dime a dozen on the FA market. 

Again, I'm OK with signing him.  I don't think there are many scenarios when this current team will use either Hudson or a vet backup PG this season.  However, I don't understand why people are so anxious to sign him. 
keep in mind that IF Hudson makes the team, it's as the 15th player.  Not the game roster.  Not a player actually getting game time off the bench.   A 15th player on a roster is a gamble or more optimistically, an investment in the future by the team.  That's all Hudson should be considered, nothing more.   Personally, I think he's worth a serious look in camp.  Danny's shown his best talent so far is drafting.  That alone gives me reason to think he could make the team even though he was drafted that late.  Danny's picked several players late in the draft that, if the draft were redone, they'd have gone much higher--Gomes and Powe are prime examples.  Even his first rounders would have gone higher like Al, Perk and Rondo.

The real issue with the team is that they have 2 spots taken by players they would rather not have -- TA and Veal.  They're the 11th and 12th men on the roster.  (realistically, Walker nor Giddens is getting ahead of them on Doc's depth chart)  Those are the roster spots that really need to be filled by a backup PG that might get game minutes.  Unfortunately, those aren't freeing up until the trade deadline at best.  If Hudson shows the potential to bring instant offense off the bench, keep him for next year.  Bear in mind that moving Eddie at the trade deadline doesn't necessarily hinge on Hudson's development.  Eddie's contract is just another bargaining chip if Danny can use it to bring in someone better that fills the team's needs.  I don't see House going anywhere unless the C's get someone that can fill Eddie's shoes and then some.

I'm not ruling out that Hudson could be the next Gomes or Powe.  But for everyone who lauds Danny for getting these players that late in the draft, they have to realize that some GMs intentionally pass on these player knowing that there's a decent chance they become role players.  The fact of the matter is that role player like Powe and Gomes really only have value to contenders.  I mean look at Gomes.  He did alright for the C's when he was here, but he certainly wasn't a difference maker.  Same with him in Minnie.  If they didn't have him, what, they would have lost a game or two more last year?  And so what, that means they would have missed the playoffs by another game or two. 

The reason that Powe and Gomes were available when they were was because a lot of teams said to themselves, a role player isn't going to get them to the next level, so they might as well roll the dice on a project and hope he turns into a superstar. 

Is this a critique of Danny?  No.  Through sifting through what's left in the draft, he's obtained quality role players at a very cheap price.  But it's getting late in the game now.  By the time Hudson pans out--if he does pan out--the C's window will be closed and role players won't be of that much use to them.  Plus, role players like House are readily available.  Remember that House didn't opt out of his contract because he realized no one would want him at anything more than a couple million a year. 

So if Lester Hudson is the 15th man, I'm OK with it.  But if Danny thinks that some vet PG is a better fit, I'm OK with that too.  Plus, if we don't sign Hudson and three years from now he's Eddie House, likely he'll be available for a small contract if we want him back. 
I don't think the C's will wait too long to determine if Hudson will pan out.  If he makes the roster this year, I think it's because the team believes he can contribute by next year.  I don't seeing him being kept on if he's going to need 2-3 years of development. 

In terms of Danny going for role players versus other GMs taking a longshot pick in the hopes of finding a star, that's why Danny is a better drafter than other GMs.  Those picks have helped the C's both in game production and/or as trading chips.  Pruitt is the only one he's picked that doesn't fall into either category.  The longshots picked by other GMs don't turn into anything --> players cut in camp or not even signed and as a result, not even usable as a trading chip.

(and Pruitt will be the first real measuring stick to determine if Doc really knows how to evaluate young players --> if Pruitt does well in NY, it's more fuel to the fire that Doc favors vets over youth without regard to talent.  if Pruitt bombs in NY too, then Doc's critics on that issue -- myself included -- will have to reconsider their opinions of Doc and on a lesser note, Danny's stellar drafting record)

Re: Lester Hudson!
« Reply #35 on: September 17, 2009, 09:49:37 AM »

Offline BennyC

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"I mean look at Gomes.  He did alright for the C's when he was here, but he certainly wasn't a difference maker."

But he did even better for the C's when we traded him.  Late round draft picks dont neccesarily have to be huge contributors on the floor in order to be valuable.  He was part of a deal that landed KG in green, that make that pick invaluable to me, even if he was only a small piece of the puzzle.

Re: Lester Hudson!
« Reply #36 on: September 17, 2009, 04:08:50 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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The reason that Powe and Gomes were available when they were was because a lot of teams said to themselves, a role player isn't going to get them to the next level, so they might as well roll the dice on a project and hope he turns into a superstar. 

One reason Gomes and Powe were available was because a lot of teams decided they were short for the power forward position (plus Powe had a troubling injury history).  A lot of teams will draft guys who fit the right body type for a position they need, but Ainge seems to go after hard workers with talent who drop because of size.

Hudson has a better chance at succeeding than the guys drafted around him not because he's a potential role player who is less of a project than those other guys but because he is a guy who might possess legitimate talent that would have made him a first round pick if he had been two inches taller.
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Re: Lester Hudson!
« Reply #37 on: September 17, 2009, 04:11:36 PM »

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The reason that Powe and Gomes were available when they were was because a lot of teams said to themselves, a role player isn't going to get them to the next level, so they might as well roll the dice on a project and hope he turns into a superstar. 

One reason Gomes and Powe were available was because a lot of teams decided they were short for the power forward position (plus Powe had a troubling injury history).  A lot of teams will draft guys who fit the right body type for a position they need, but Ainge seems to go after hard workers with talent who drop because of size.

Hudson has a better chance at succeeding than the guys drafted around him not because he's a potential role player who is less of a project than those other guys but because he is a guy who might possess legitimate talent that would have made him a first round pick if he had been two inches taller.

Two inches taller and three years younger, maybe - remember he's older than Rondo.  I'm rooting for Lester cause I love a scrappy underdog, but I'd be surprised to see him get into a single regular-season game this year.

Re: Lester Hudson!
« Reply #38 on: September 17, 2009, 05:43:41 PM »

Offline youcanthandlethetruth113

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Yeah Yi was good vs. that chair too ;D

What's with all the talk about losing Eddie? Are you guys NUTS?
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