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Author Topic: Is National League hitting really that bad?  (Read 6951 times)

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Is National League hitting really that bad?
« on: September 02, 2009, 10:33:40 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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John Smoltz with Red Sox: 2-5, 8.32 ERA

John Smoltz with Cardinals: 1-0, 0.82 ERA

Brad Penny with Red Sox:  7-8, 5.61 ERA

Brad Penny with Giants: 1-0, 0.00 ERA

So, what gives?  Is it a difference in quality between the two leagues?  Maybe batters simply being unfamiliar with pitchers joining the NL at this point?  Or could it say something about the Sox' pitching coach?
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Re: Is National League hitting really that bad?
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2009, 10:35:19 PM »

Offline Redz

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It's a factor...plus Smoltz and Penny are NL lifers

But putting Smoltz and Penny in the same sentence is tough too.
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Re: Is National League hitting really that bad?
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2009, 10:45:09 PM »

Offline Chris

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I don't think its the only factor at play here, but the answer to your question is yes, yes it is.
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Re: Is National League hitting really that bad?
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2009, 11:14:40 PM »

Offline Jon

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Quote from: Chris on September 02, 2009, 10:45:09 PM
I don't think its the only factor at play here, but the answer to your question is yes, yes it is.

I tend to agree.  I think the AL East makes matters even worse.  NY, Boston, and Tampa Bay are probably good enough to win any other division, and one of them won't even make the playoffs.  Toronto could probably win a division or two and Baltimore would probably be in the wildcard hunt if they played in the NL West. 

I mean as good as the Phillies were last year, if they had played in the AL East, they would have finished 4th or 5th in the division and not even sniffed the playoffs.  Same with this year. 

Fortunately for the Phillies, baseball is a huge game of streaks and chances.  Note that dominant teams in basketball and football can win 80% of their games or better.  Not so in baseball.  The Yankees have the best record in baseball and have only won 64% of their games (which would translate to a 52 win team in basketball).  Most division leaders, however, are playing 58% ball, which would translate to 47 wins in the NBA, or basically what the Walker/Pierce teams won in their best year. 

So yes, the NL does suck, but that doesn't preclude them from winning a World Series if they get hot (and lucky) at the right time. 
« Last Edit: September 02, 2009, 11:57:02 PM by Jon »
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Re: Is National League hitting really that bad?
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2009, 11:32:25 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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Quote from: Roy Hobbs on September 02, 2009, 10:33:40 PM
John Smoltz with Red Sox: 2-5, 8.32 ERA

John Smoltz with Cardinals: 1-0, 0.82 ERA

Brad Penny with Red Sox:  7-8, 5.61 ERA

Brad Penny with Giants: 1-0, 0.00 ERA

So, what gives?  Is it a difference in quality between the two leagues?  Maybe batters simply being unfamiliar with pitchers joining the NL at this point?  Or could it say something about the Sox' pitching coach?
Bad pitching coach? Bad catcher?
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Re: Is National League hitting really that bad?
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2009, 11:33:09 PM »

Offline Brickowski

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Well, the hitting in the NL is bad-- but the pitching sucks too.
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Re: Is National League hitting really that bad?
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2009, 12:00:20 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Quote from: Roy Hobbs on September 02, 2009, 10:33:40 PM
John Smoltz with Red Sox: 2-5, 8.32 ERA

John Smoltz with Cardinals: 1-0, 0.82 ERA

Brad Penny with Red Sox:  7-8, 5.61 ERA

Brad Penny with Giants: 1-0, 0.00 ERA

So, what gives?  Is it a difference in quality between the two leagues?  Maybe batters simply being unfamiliar with pitchers joining the NL at this point?  Or could it say something about the Sox' pitching coach?
In a word, yes. The bottom three batters in most NL lineups are simply atrocious.
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Re: Is National League hitting really that bad?
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2009, 12:30:59 AM »

Offline guava_wrench

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The claim that the Phillies have bad hitting is silly (Penny's opponent).
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Re: Is National League hitting really that bad?
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2009, 01:36:32 AM »

Offline star18

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NL can't win an all star game I know that.   My Phillies are the best though, their Top 6 is ridiculous especially when J-Roll gets going.   Rollins/Victorino/Utley/Howard/Ibanez/Werth.   We would have won it all last year no matter what division we played in.  This year we could have 4 guys with 35+ home runs, 8 guys 25+ doubles, we are leading the NL in runs, RBI's & HR by good margins.   Speed too, we could have 4 with 20+ SB.  Phillies have the best offense in the majors because they are right up there with the AL teams who have the DH.   Plus watch these guys especially Victorino they come up huge in clutch situations, they are cruising right now, as soon as the playoffs start though they are going straight to the World Series.   Only the Yankees can beat them this year I think.   Yankees are stacked this year having a big Yankees year.  My Predicition Phillies 4-3 over Yankees.
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Re: Is National League hitting really that bad?
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2009, 01:41:41 AM »

Offline guava_wrench

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Quote from: star18 on September 03, 2009, 01:36:32 AM
NL can't win an all star game I know that.   My Phillies are the best though, their Top 6 is ridiculous especially when J-Roll gets going.   Rollins/Victorino/Utley/Howard/Ibanez/Werth.   We would have won it all last year no matter what division we played in.  This year we could have 4 guys with 35+ home runs, 8 guys 25+ doubles, we are leading the NL in runs, RBI's & HR by good margins.   Speed too, we could have 4 with 20+ SB.  Phillies have the best offense in the majors because they are right up there with the AL teams who have the DH.   Plus watch these guys especially Victorino they come up huge in clutch situations, they are cruising right now, as soon as the playoffs start though they are going straight to the World Series.   Only the Yankees can beat them this year I think.   Yankees are stacked this year having a big Yankees year.  My Predicition Phillies 4-3 over Yankees.
Please never say "Only the [team] can beat them" when referring baseball. Anyone can win in a baseball series if 2 starting pitchers get hot (or even just one pitching games 1, 4 and 7).
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Re: Is National League hitting really that bad?
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2009, 01:55:58 AM »

Offline Toine43

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It's far worse than the AL, but clearly the discrepancy between the 2 leagues is far smaller than the performances of the ex-Sox would suggest. And I doubt Farrell has much to do with this, because Penny and Smoltz are both veterans who are presumably pretty much on their own programs.

I couldn't believe that Smoltz turned it around like he did, but I saw it coming from a mile away with Penny. He showed flashes in Boston (unlike Smoltz), and his heater had life to it all season long (obviously he had little to offer in the way of off speed pitches).
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Re: Is National League hitting really that bad?
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2009, 02:26:56 AM »

Offline rrc589

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First time Penny's pitched over 6 innings this year.



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Re: Is National League hitting really that bad?
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2009, 02:33:29 AM »

Offline star18

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Quote from: guava_wrench on September 03, 2009, 01:41:41 AM
Quote from: star18 on September 03, 2009, 01:36:32 AM
NL can't win an all star game I know that.   My Phillies are the best though, their Top 6 is ridiculous especially when J-Roll gets going.   Rollins/Victorino/Utley/Howard/Ibanez/Werth.   We would have won it all last year no matter what division we played in.  This year we could have 4 guys with 35+ home runs, 8 guys 25+ doubles, we are leading the NL in runs, RBI's & HR by good margins.   Speed too, we could have 4 with 20+ SB.  Phillies have the best offense in the majors because they are right up there with the AL teams who have the DH.   Plus watch these guys especially Victorino they come up huge in clutch situations, they are cruising right now, as soon as the playoffs start though they are going straight to the World Series.   Only the Yankees can beat them this year I think.   Yankees are stacked this year having a big Yankees year.  My Predicition Phillies 4-3 over Yankees.
Please never say "Only the [team] can beat them" when referring baseball. Anyone can win in a baseball series if 2 starting pitchers get hot (or even just one pitching games 1, 4 and 7).

Is there a prize for taking my comments out of context? How many times is this going to happen? I wrote "Only the Yankees can beat them this year I think" Key words there "I think" I know any team can beat another in a 7 game series.  I wrote a whole post on that once talking about the 1980 USA hockey team, 1997 Broncos etc.  But when I said Orlando was going to beat Cleveland, boy that was just absolutely over the top, no way that was going to happen.
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Re: Is National League hitting really that bad?
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2009, 07:37:24 AM »

Offline Rondo2287

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Yes it is that bad, they cant hit 96 plus fastballs apparently. 
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Re: Is National League hitting really that bad?
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2009, 08:21:36 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Quote from: guava_wrench on September 03, 2009, 12:30:59 AM
The claim that the Phillies have bad hitting is silly (Penny's opponent).
The top 6 on the Phillies are excellent but like just about every NL team the bottom three is awful. With the pitcher and two poor position players in the lineup NL pitchers can usually give all out efforts for 6 batters and coast for 3 and then ramp up again. It is a huge advantage over pitching in the AL where there are 8-10 teams that go 8 deep with good hitting and where pitchers have to pace themselves more to last.

There's a reason why the first 8 teams in the team pitching statistics for quality starts are all National League teams. It's because they have softer lineups that allow starting pitchers to coast for some innings and go longer in games.
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