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Re: Job offer question
« Reply #45 on: August 28, 2009, 10:21:51 PM »

Offline Nut from Nh

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Too bad it turned out the way it did.  I strongly recommend you read my detailed advice on how to conduct a salary negotiation once you have an offer.  It's a play by play that has served me well, if you rehearse it over and over and have confidence in yourself you will do well.

Going forward i think it's important how you handle the big salary question at your next interview.  This can really make a difference between getting an offer at all, and getting a better offer if they do make one...
nto
The question will always be something like, what sort of compensation are you looking for?  Or, what do you make now?  That last question is a red flag for me, i just think it is unprofessional.  In any event, you handle it like this...

never give them a number, never!  Giving them a salary is like walking onto a car lot and saying I have $25k in my pocket. Instead, you throw the question back at them and try to get more info.  It sounds weird at first, to take there question and ask a question, but HR people take it in stride, if anything I think it actually helps your candidacy bc you will show you know how to negotiate.

You say,

Well mr. Johnson I am currently employed and I feel as though I do have a range I feel is appropriate given my current position, my skill set and my research.  Could you please share with me your range and I will let you know if there is a match?

*** this is a good way to throw the question back at them.  You reminded them your employed so they have to compete, and you communicated that you have done research of what the market should bare for a person with your skills.  But you didn't give them any clue as to what you are looking for.  Make that car salesman give YOU the first number, NOT the other way around ***

They will say well we have a budget and blah blah blah... but they will likely give you a range of approximately 5 to 10K.  Or they may say well we're looking to fill this position in the upper 50's... for example. 

NO MATTER WHAT THEY SAY your reply is always the same, even if you hated what you heard, or hopefully LOVED what you heard.  I have used this tactic dozens and dozens of times, seriously.  I have an excel sheet with the date, position, company, and link to the Monster post of every job I ever submitted a resume to and only a few times did the HR person refuse to give me a range.  So the odds are very much in your favor that it goes very smoothly.  I once got a range that was 40% higher than I had hoped and it took everything I had not to say "excuse me!!!"

but again, your reply is the same...

"Well Mr. Johnson, that is in the lower range of what I was hoping for, but it is in the range... and I am very excited about this particular opportunity

(you can give a quick two sentence blurb about why you like the position or the company, try to have done research about the company, like an up and coming product line or something to personalize why you are excited about THEIR company)

and I would really be interested in learning more about the position."

Right here what you did was first of all, you didn't eliminate yourself from the list.  The salary question is a "cross you off the list" kind of question.  Don't give them a reason to, even if you didn't like what they had for a salary.  You have nothing to gain from saying, well that salary sux dude.  Your goal is to get information from them on their budget.  But you also communicated to them that your range is at the top of or slightly out of their range.  Which is where you want to be, I mean if some company has a budget of 55k to 65k, you want every dime of that budget. 

I have received offers that were at the absolute top of their stated range, gotten an offer, politely explained that I was considering another offer (which was not a lie) and they immediatlely upped their offer to outside of their range.  So don't get upset if you don't like the range they gave.  This is not a big deal at this point.  Again, remember they are asking this question just to make sure there is some compatability so nobody is wasting anyone's time.  Many times the salary question will come as the 3rd question of a phone interview.  They are crossing people off the list to dwindle it down to the face to face candidates.  So don't get your name off the list, get some info out of them without handcuffing yourself and rest assured you handled the toughest question of the interview with flying colors.

You did the right thing, the company treated you like crap.  Keep working hard and interviewing.  Best of luck!

Re: Job offer question
« Reply #46 on: August 28, 2009, 10:54:48 PM »

Offline Rondo2287

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Thanks nut, thats all great advice, but I was very happy to see that at the bottom you did agree with me that they treated me like crap.  I dont think i was ever talked to the way that they did during this process.  But thanks for your words of wisdom, i will definitly use that approach next time. 
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Re: Job offer question
« Reply #47 on: August 28, 2009, 11:07:52 PM »

Offline EJPLAYA

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Thanks nut, thats all great advice, but I was very happy to see that at the bottom you did agree with me that they treated me like crap.  I dont think i was ever talked to the way that they did during this process.  But thanks for your words of wisdom, i will definitly use that approach next time. 

Be a little careful taking interview advice from a person who claims to have used the advice "dozens of times" successfully. Either it is an exaggeration, or someone can't keep a job. Although there are definitely pieces in there that are useful, you also need to be very careful about sounding like you are being evasive with your salary requirements and playing games with them. You can easily come across like an arrogant jerk and in this market with so many people interviewing you don't need to be seen that way.

Re: Job offer question
« Reply #48 on: August 28, 2009, 11:11:20 PM »

Offline Rondo2287

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Ya EJ, I hear ya, basically I was told, they couldnt give me the top of the range but could give me something I would be comfortable with.  They then offered me the very bottom and said there was no room for negotiating.  So i kinda mentally checked out at that point.  I know i shouldnt have but i figure if this is how inflexible they will be when hiring me, how inflexible will they be while managing me.  And then I kinda got proven right by the way the woman flipped her lid when I said the job wasnt for me. 
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Re: Job offer question
« Reply #49 on: August 28, 2009, 11:17:17 PM »

Offline EJPLAYA

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Ya EJ, I hear ya, basically I was told, they couldnt give me the top of the range but could give me something I would be comfortable with.  They then offered me the very bottom and said there was no room for negotiating.  So i kinda mentally checked out at that point.  I know i shouldnt have but i figure if this is how inflexible they will be when hiring me, how inflexible will they be while managing me.  And then I kinda got proven right by the way the woman flipped her lid when I said the job wasnt for me. 

Don't get me wrong at all. I think you did the right thing. If an employer is acting like that in an interview and you aren't getting a good feeling it is only going to get worse. Use your gut feeling. My main issue was the other poster used an example of a car transaction, and if you used his dialogue verbatim you would be the one who sounds like the car salesman. Employers don't need that these days especially. It obviously wasn't a good fit and you did the right thing to walk away. Your sanity and happiness is more important.

Re: Job offer question
« Reply #50 on: August 28, 2009, 11:21:02 PM »

Offline Rondo2287

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Oh ya, totally.  I mean its tough because i started this thread asking about how to deal with salary issues.   And then i went in today and it quickly became alot more about respect.  It definitely is tough right now because employers assume because of the economy that all people are desperate for jobs giving them all the power.  And if I was in a worse situation I definetly would have taken this job, but luckily I am able to walk away and not put myself through the headache. 

Best part though is that this woman is now going on vacation for two weeks because she is starting a grad program, so now she not only has to explain to the president of the company why I walked, but also that she cant do interviews for two weeks to fill the position. 
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Re: Job offer question
« Reply #51 on: August 29, 2009, 02:40:39 AM »

Offline indyceltic

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I had a similar experience after declining a job about a year ago.  I am a systems analyst for an insurance company in Cincinnati.  I grew up in Indy so I am still trying to move back home, but I have a pretty good job and house here in Cincinnati. 

I interviewed the job and really wanted it, but when they were doing their background check they called HR at my company which is expected.  The first red flag was when they asked to be transferred to my department manager.  They got HR, but didn't talk to them.  I was called into my manager's office the next day.  That was a fun conversation.

A couple days later I got a call back from the other company and they offered me the job.  I advised I was really looking forward to working for them, but was hoping for a higher salary.  She then jumped down my throat saying "I am not paying you to move."  She got very upset when I advised it wasn't the right move for me because I would be making the same salary at my current company with my raise that I was going to get in a week. 

I was stressed all week on whether I was going to pack all my stuff up and move back to Indy, but within of the end of the phone call I was feeling 100% better.  I knew I made the right choice.  It is funny how things work out. 

Keep you head up and good luck with the job search.  The most important part is liking the company and your co-workers.

Re: Job offer question
« Reply #52 on: August 29, 2009, 10:08:02 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Maybe you should let the rest of us know what this company's name is so that we never have the misfortune to ever have to apply for a job there. I don't know how large of a company this was but sometimes small, privately owned companies can be quite messed up, especially if the owner of the company isn't a committed, educated professional.

Re: Job offer question
« Reply #53 on: August 29, 2009, 10:26:14 AM »

Online hwangjini_1

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Oh ya, totally.  I mean its tough because i started this thread asking about how to deal with salary issues.   And then i went in today and it quickly became alot more about respect.  It definitely is tough right now because employers assume because of the economy that all people are desperate for jobs giving them all the power.  And if I was in a worse situation I definetly would have taken this job, but luckily I am able to walk away and not put myself through the headache. 

Best part though is that this woman is now going on vacation for two weeks because she is starting a grad program, so now she not only has to explain to the president of the company why I walked, but also that she cant do interviews for two weeks to fill the position. 

well, assuming your are pretty much accurate with what you have said, it is probably better for you that you turned the job down. the person you dealt with seems unprofessional. if the rest of the company is run by similar people, life could be hell for you.

dont apologize. you made a decision that you believe to be correct. good. now move on, learn from the experience, and focus more the celtics.  ;D
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Re: Job offer question
« Reply #54 on: August 29, 2009, 10:33:45 AM »

Offline Rondo2287

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Ya nick it was a pretty small software company, the President was really cool but the CFO was who i talked to and she was a real piece of work. 
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Re: Job offer question
« Reply #55 on: September 23, 2009, 11:16:13 AM »

Offline Rondo2287

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Hey Guys I got another question.   

I am currently working and looking for a new job cause mine is just temp.  Good hours for interviewing cause I work 7am-3:30 so I can get out of work and go interview.  I got an interview for friday but the latest they could do was 3:30.  I have already left work early a couple of times saying I had a doctors appointment or something for interviews a couple of times.  I dont wanna use that excuse again so I was gonna just tell my boss im interviewing, but anyways.  I dont wanna go through all this unless I know the jobs is for me.  Basically it would be a pretty decent commute so I money would be an issue.  Is it ok to ask for a salary range before the interview?
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Re: Job offer question
« Reply #56 on: September 23, 2009, 11:20:39 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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I'm not there yet (interviewing heavily), but my friend, who is a pro at this now (he went through 20+ interviews before he found the perfect job), said that the two times he brought up money on the first interview he never got a call back. If they bring up money, fine, but I don't think its the best idea.

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Re: Job offer question
« Reply #57 on: September 23, 2009, 11:21:25 AM »

Offline yall hate

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Hey Guys I got another question.   

I am currently working and looking for a new job cause mine is just temp.  Good hours for interviewing cause I work 7am-3:30 so I can get out of work and go interview.  I got an interview for friday but the latest they could do was 3:30.  I have already left work early a couple of times saying I had a doctors appointment or something for interviews a couple of times.  I dont wanna use that excuse again so I was gonna just tell my boss im interviewing, but anyways.  I dont wanna go through all this unless I know the jobs is for me.  Basically it would be a pretty decent commute so I money would be an issue.  Is it ok to ask for a salary range before the interview?

I wouldnt ask that before the interview.  I think it has the potential to send the wrong message, and chances are they are going to be semi evasive about giving you that prior to interviewing. 

I am sure there will be multiple different opinions, but I wouldnt ask that prior to the interview...

I think your best bet would be to try and have a later interview (not sure if that is possible, you said latest was 330, but is that latest ever, or latest that week?)

Re: Job offer question
« Reply #58 on: September 23, 2009, 11:22:02 AM »

Offline Chris

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Hey Guys I got another question.   

I am currently working looking for a new job cause mine is just temp.  Good hours for interviewing cause I work 7am-3:30 so I can get out of work and go interview.  I got an interview for friday but the latest they could do was 3:30.  I have already left work early a couple of times saying I had a doctors appointment or something for interviews a couple of times.  I dont wanna use that excuse again so I was gonna just tell my boss im interviewing, but anyways.  I dont wanna go through all this unless I know the jobs is for me.  Basically it would be a pretty decent commute so I money would be an issue.  Is it ok to ask for a salary range before the interview?

If they allow you to leave work early for a dentist appointment, then I think leaving for an interview is a legitimate excuse to leave early as well.  

I don't know what your boss is like, but I think you should try just being honest with him/her.  Meet with them, and explain that you are currently looking for a full-time position, and it will require you to miss some time to interview.  Ask them what is appropriate for this, and then work with them.

I can tell you as a manager myself that nothing ****es me off more is when people lie to me about why they are leaving work.  If he/she is a reasonable person at all, they will understand this situation, and be happy to help you within reason.  But if they find out your frequent doctors appointments are actually interviews, you may not only be losing a temp job, but also losing a valuable reference.

But as far as asking about the salary, I personally do not think it is a great idea to ask about it before the interview, unless you are dealing with someone from HR, and not an actual hiring manager.

Re: Job offer question
« Reply #59 on: September 23, 2009, 11:28:56 AM »

Offline Rondo2287

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Hey Guys I got another question.   

I am currently working looking for a new job cause mine is just temp.  Good hours for interviewing cause I work 7am-3:30 so I can get out of work and go interview.  I got an interview for friday but the latest they could do was 3:30.  I have already left work early a couple of times saying I had a doctors appointment or something for interviews a couple of times.  I dont wanna use that excuse again so I was gonna just tell my boss im interviewing, but anyways.  I dont wanna go through all this unless I know the jobs is for me.  Basically it would be a pretty decent commute so I money would be an issue.  Is it ok to ask for a salary range before the interview?

If they allow you to leave work early for a dentist appointment, then I think leaving for an interview is a legitimate excuse to leave early as well.  

I don't know what your boss is like, but I think you should try just being honest with him/her.  Meet with them, and explain that you are currently looking for a full-time position, and it will require you to miss some time to interview.  Ask them what is appropriate for this, and then work with them.

I can tell you as a manager myself that nothing ****es me off more is when people lie to me about why they are leaving work.  If he/she is a reasonable person at all, they will understand this situation, and be happy to help you within reason.  But if they find out your frequent doctors appointments are actually interviews, you may not only be losing a temp job, but also losing a valuable reference.

But as far as asking about the salary, I personally do not think it is a great idea to ask about it before the interview, unless you are dealing with someone from HR, and not an actual hiring manager.

Ya the guy that contacted me was a guy from HR.  My real concern here is that in the job posting all it says they require is a high school degree, but when you look at the posting its very specialized(Accounting) and I don think there is anyway somebody that doesnt have a solid background could do the desired tasks.  So im not sure if it is a typo or what.  But if it isnt I think the possibility of them paying significantly less than what I am looking for is there.  Since they technically may be looking for somebody without a degree.      Hope that makes sense

And Also I have only used the doctors appoint reason twice in the 4 months I have been working here and it only required me to leave like half an hour early.  So it wasnt a huge deal, hope I didnt imply I have done it on a regular basis
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