Self-Esteem

[cdif911]

One of the books I read this summer was the Narcissism Epidemic.  I just read an article on the problems with self esteem.  Just curious what you all think.

Is it good to build self esteem in children by constantly praising or is self esteem the byproduct of success

essentially does good self esteem lead to success or is it the other way around?

I think its the byproduct of success personally. I really think it can damage a child to continually praise him/her for everything they do.  I hate that youth teams all get a trophy and they don't keep score in certain sports. Kids need to learn that in life sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, how you deal with it is what its all about.

Thoughts?

[Redz]

One of the books I read this summer was the Narcissism Epidemic.  I just read an article on the problems with self esteem.  Just curious what you all think.

Is it good to build self esteem in children by constantly praising or is self esteem the byproduct of success

essentially does good self esteem lead to success or is it the other way around?

I think its the byproduct of success personally. I really think it can damage a child to continually praise him/her for everything they do.  I hate that youth teams all get a trophy and they don't keep score in certain sports. Kids need to learn that in life sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, how you deal with it is what its all about.

Thoughts?

Not sure.  I think there's a happy medium.

Ironically I'm working on an assignment for a Behavior Management class where I have to use different forms of reinforcement to try and influence people's behavior.  One of the mandatory methods we have to use is "Catching `em Being Good"...The idea is to go slightly overboard in praise when the behavior is meeting your goal.

I just failed miserably using this method on my daughters and a friend.  May have been the delivery or that I was too engaged in the activity with them, rather than observing.

Anyhow, I do believe it's important to tell someone when they've done a good job, and I do believe it can be harmful to constantly beat someone down when they're not doing a good job.

I guess the key is to be genuine.

[Lucky17]

One of the books I read this summer was the Narcissism Epidemic.  I just read an article on the problems with self esteem.  Just curious what you all think.

Is it good to build self esteem in children by constantly praising or is self esteem the byproduct of success

essentially does good self esteem lead to success or is it the other way around?

I think its the byproduct of success personally. I really think it can damage a child to continually praise him/her for everything they do.  I hate that youth teams all get a trophy and they don't keep score in certain sports. Kids need to learn that in life sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, how you deal with it is what its all about.

Thoughts?

I don't think there's anything wrong with praising good behavior in children. Kids need feedback to reinforce right behavior and to discourage wrong behavior. The greater sin is consistently setting low goals for kids; they need to be challenged. Praising a kid for good effort in an otherwise failed exercise is more important than a gold star for an easy job done.

What about the flip side: is failure a by-product or cause of low self-esteem?

Likewise, in many cases, success in one aspect of one's life can have little meaning in terms of self-esteem. Think about the valedictorian with the stuttering problem and fear of public speaking, the head cheerleader with the eating disorder, the starting quarterback with dyslexia, etc.

[cdif911]

One of the books I read this summer was the Narcissism Epidemic.  I just read an article on the problems with self esteem.  Just curious what you all think.

Is it good to build self esteem in children by constantly praising or is self esteem the byproduct of success

essentially does good self esteem lead to success or is it the other way around?

I think its the byproduct of success personally. I really think it can damage a child to continually praise him/her for everything they do.  I hate that youth teams all get a trophy and they don't keep score in certain sports. Kids need to learn that in life sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, how you deal with it is what its all about.

Thoughts?

I don't think there's anything wrong with praising good behavior in children. Kids need feedback to reinforce right behavior and to discourage wrong behavior. The greater sin is consistently setting low goals for kids; they need to be challenged. Praising a kid for good effort in an otherwise failed exercise is more important than a gold star for an easy job done.

What about the flip side: is failure a by-product or cause of low self-esteem?

Likewise, in many cases, success in one aspect of one's life can have little meaning in terms of self-esteem. Think about the valedictorian with the stuttering problem and fear of public speaking, the head cheerleader with the eating disorder, the starting quarterback with dyslexia, etc.

the question on failure is a good one.  I'd tend to see it as a cause of low self-esteem not the other way around. (but can be cyclical)

here's what scares me.  If we tell kids they can do anything they want, they can be anything they want, they're awesome all the time, they're perfect, we create a society of entitlement, and often, complacency.

I think the idea of a happy medium may be the way to go.  Of course we should praise when appropriate, but the overpraising, the sticker or gold star or present for every accomplishment, the focus on every child being a special snowflake - that creates problems for the future, imo

[indeedproceed]

I know my parents always taught me that I could do anything, and that I was destined for great things.

As I get older, I am realizing that there are things that are beyond my reach, it's always bristling.

The bigger thing though is being content. Im 25, and some of my friends are settling down with wives, girlfriends, whatever, and having kids. They live on back roads with no views and deliver soda or beer for pepsi or coors...

Now there is nothing wrong with that, but I can't see the happiness in that. I can't see the happiness in being mundane. Now what kind of conclusion can you draw from that? I imagine it will have something to do with narcissism.

[the_Bird]

There has to be a balance; celebrate the effort, accept the inevitable disappointments.  

Honestly, sometimes I think we all tend to overthink these things, you need to give praise for giving it the ol' college try while also understanding that, yes, doing the best we can means that we're *trying* to win.  Understanding failure - what can we learn from why we didn't succeed? - is a huge part of why sports can be so important.  Same token, the_kid can't be under the belief that they'll be a disappointment to you if they DON'T win, or that if they can't hit a curveball they're somehow a failure at life.  It's a balance.  

[Edgar]

CHUCK E. CHEESE AWARD
Fewest Regular Season Wins (Smurf Award prior to 2007) 


I feel great when I win this one. 

[cdif911]

I know my parents always taught me that I could do anything, and that I was destined for great things.

As I get older, I am realizing that there are things that are beyond my reach, it's always bristling.

The bigger thing though is being content. Im 25, and some of my friends are settling down with wives, girlfriends, whatever, and having kids. They live on back roads with no views and deliver soda or beer for pepsi or coors...

Now there is nothing wrong with that, but I can't see the happiness in that. I can't see the happiness in being mundane. Now what kind of conclusion can you draw from that? I imagine it will have something to do with narcissism.

I'm not sure if I'd say that's narcissism.  If you felt you deserved happiness, or the perfect job or house, and weren't willing to put in the work needed, that's narcissism

the credit crunch and home foreclosure fiasco we're going is partially being blamed on that type of mindset - but I should have the biggest house, or the hugest TV or the phattest car, even if I can't afford it now

[the_Bird]

I know my parents always taught me that I could do anything, and that I was destined for great things.

As I get older, I am realizing that there are things that are beyond my reach, it's always bristling.

The bigger thing though is being content. Im 25, and some of my friends are settling down with wives, girlfriends, whatever, and having kids. They live on back roads with no views and deliver soda or beer for pepsi or coors...

Now there is nothing wrong with that, but I can't see the happiness in that. I can't see the happiness in being mundane. Now what kind of conclusion can you draw from that? I imagine it will have something to do with narcissism.

All I can think of is this scene...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpnFFHxg5a0

[indeedproceed]

yeah, I love that scene.

[Potapenko Boxout]

for my buck - self esteem might be tied to how much you sit around and post on a message board

[fairweatherfan]

Promoting self-esteem can be useful within limits.  Telling kids that they all matter and are worth something is good; telling them they're all exceptional and deserve a trophy just for showing up is not.  Problem is most self-esteem programs wind up veering toward the latter. 

I like IP's parents' (also my parents') approach - tell the kid they have great potential, and praise them when they do well.  Give more tangible rewards intermittently (rewarding behavior every time is counterproductive).  But don't act as if they are already that great person that they have the potential to be. 

I can't see the happiness in being mundane. Now what kind of conclusion can you draw from that? I imagine it will have something to do with narcissism.

If no one could be happy being mundane, almost no one could be happy.  The key is, is it mundane to you?  I'd guess for your friends, it's not, at least not consciously.  No matter what the nature of your life is, if you enjoy it, it's worthwhile. 

There's nothing wrong or narcissistic with wanting better for yourself, but your friends may not share this perspective - once you have a wife and kids, making a comfortable life for them tends to override other motivations.  Their priority might just be having a good life at home, not an exceptional position in society.  A shift in focus creates a shift in priorities. 

[guava_wrench]

I am definitely a believer in helping children accomplish things instead of handing out empty compliments for nothing. It is the feeling of accomplishment and competence that gives real self-esteem, not hand holding and praise for nonsense.

I also do not believe that one size fits all in these things. Different kids have different personalities with different needs.

Considering that effusive praise for children is a modern invention, I am doubtful of the self-esteem pop psychology until I see better empirical justifications.

I think part of this fad is a result of the diverse behaviors of parents. Some parents are mean and badger their children with constant criticism. I believe that this is not good and it is appropriate to help those parents have more reasonable expectations of other human beings. This does not mean that we should praise children for every mundane thing they do.

[RAcker]

I think that praising good behavior is fine if not done to excess and that it can have something to do with good self-esteem.  But that alone cannot keep a person on track or derail them.  I just find it hard to believe that success or failure alone defines a person's self-image.

The reason I think that it's more complicated than "winning" or "losing" is because there are a lot of people in this world who we'd all see as "sucessful" who have terribly low self-esteem.  I think that within each of us, we have a self perception.  In other words, we hold ourselves to a standard that may be vastly different from our neighbor and while he/she may think we are a winner, we may see ourselves as a complete failure.  

The bottom line is, it's in those parameters that we set for ourselves where you'll find a person's bar that they shoot for.  Each person's expectations of themselves in relation to their reality defines how good they feel about their success level.

The problem in most people is that they either judge those around them too harshly while cutting themselves too much slack (too high self-esteem) or they cut everyone else slack and judge themselves too harshly (too low self-esteem).  

Just my opinion.

[fairweatherfan]

The problem in most people is that they either judge those around them too harshly while cutting themselves too much slack (too high self-esteem) or they cut everyone else slack and judge themselves too harshly (too low self-esteem).  

Interestingly, new research is showing that the idea that childhood (maybe adult too) bullies act out of low self-esteem is completely wrong; it's exactly the opposite.  Too much self-esteem coupled with an increasing realization that the world doesn't see you in the same way can lead to lashing out against others.  There's a dark side to excessive self-esteem beyond consequences for the person who has it.