Author Topic: Blame Danny for Tony and Powe  (Read 8170 times)

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Re: Blame Danny for Tony and Powe
« Reply #30 on: August 17, 2009, 12:18:52 PM »

Offline RAcker

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I blame Danny for the recession.  Heck, throw in global warming too.   ;)

Re: Blame Danny for Tony and Powe
« Reply #31 on: August 17, 2009, 12:21:44 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I blame Danny for the recession.  Heck, throw in global warming too.   ;)

  Well, the globe seems to be warming this month but it was cooling earlier this summer. Maybe the gods are angry because he's yet to complete the Marquis Daniels acquisition.

Re: Blame Danny for Tony and Powe
« Reply #32 on: August 17, 2009, 12:23:40 PM »

Offline RAcker

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I blame Danny for the recession.  Heck, throw in global warming too.   ;)

  Well, the globe seems to be warming this month but it was cooling earlier this summer. Maybe the gods are angry because he's yet to complete the Marquis Daniels acquisition.
TP my friend.

Re: Blame Danny for Tony and Powe
« Reply #33 on: August 17, 2009, 12:26:17 PM »

Offline jdpapa3

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The entire off-season last season was a mess.  Luckily, this summer has been a lot better.

  The main difference between last summer and this summer is that there are better players available now.

And we still have the $ flexibility because of an eye towards future summers last year. Though it is tough to argue against Pietrus. He's as solid as they come for a wing off the bench.

Re: Blame Danny for Tony and Powe
« Reply #34 on: August 17, 2009, 01:21:12 PM »

Offline gustusias

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That whole Powe thing was mishandled and I am miserable he ain't coming back. However, who knows? Maybe Ainge knows more than all of us and Powe is a very risky proposition given his knees.

Tony is just one sad and bad luck guy.
 
If there is anyone to blame though, it's probably Obama, that sleezy doublespeaking lefty. Watch out or we'll all get killed, yessiree!

Re: Blame Danny for Tony and Powe
« Reply #35 on: August 17, 2009, 01:24:32 PM »

Offline Redz

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That whole Powe thing was mishandled and I am miserable he ain't coming back. However, who knows? Maybe Ainge knows more than all of us and Powe is a very risky proposition given his knees.

Tony is just one sad and bad luck guy.
 
If there is anyone to blame though, it's probably Obama, that sleezy doublespeaking lefty. Watch out or we'll all get killed, yessiree!


heh?
Yup

Re: Blame Danny for Tony and Powe
« Reply #36 on: August 17, 2009, 01:27:02 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Celtics owned his Bird rights and used that to give him that 2 year $5 million contract. Personally I would have preferred they had let Eddie and Tony go and signed Roger Mason or Mickael Pietrus with the full MLE, but that was just me and yes, go back and check the record, that's what I was calling for last year.

  Neither of them were worth the full MLE.
As what was already correctly deduced by someone else what I meant was we would have the full MLE to use on someone else. It was going to take more than 60% of the MLE to get Mason, a 42% three point shooting, 12 PPG scoring wing that would have provided a lot better rest at the wing than Tony, Eddie or the rookies did. Given he won like three games single handedly with last second shots for the Spurs last year my opinion is, he would be worth [dang] near all the MLE and if you could have gotten him at $4 million per you would have gotten a bargain. Remember, this was last year before the economy tanked so what might be perceived as an overpayment now, though I don't think so, was reasonable back then.

Pietrus got almost the whole MLE and was definitely worth it being a difference making shut down defender as well as a clutch shooting offensive player that the Magic and many experts, just were not expecting. Again, in last year's market it looked like a possibility of an overspend but with his playoff contributions and the solidity he gave the bench, he was worth every penny and remains that way.

I would have preferred either over the combined contributions of Allen and House last year and whatever they may bring the team this year.

Re: Blame Danny for Tony and Powe
« Reply #37 on: August 17, 2009, 01:51:31 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Celtics owned his Bird rights and used that to give him that 2 year $5 million contract. Personally I would have preferred they had let Eddie and Tony go and signed Roger Mason or Mickael Pietrus with the full MLE, but that was just me and yes, go back and check the record, that's what I was calling for last year.

  Neither of them were worth the full MLE.
As what was already correctly deduced by someone else what I meant was we would have the full MLE to use on someone else. It was going to take more than 60% of the MLE to get Mason, a 42% three point shooting, 12 PPG scoring wing that would have provided a lot better rest at the wing than Tony, Eddie or the rookies did. Given he won like three games single handedly with last second shots for the Spurs last year my opinion is, he would be worth [dang] near all the MLE and if you could have gotten him at $4 million per you would have gotten a bargain. Remember, this was last year before the economy tanked so what might be perceived as an overpayment now, though I don't think so, was reasonable back then.

Pietrus got almost the whole MLE and was definitely worth it being a difference making shut down defender as well as a clutch shooting offensive player that the Magic and many experts, just were not expecting. Again, in last year's market it looked like a possibility of an overspend but with his playoff contributions and the solidity he gave the bench, he was worth every penny and remains that way.

I would have preferred either over the combined contributions of Allen and House last year and whatever they may bring the team this year.

Pietrus was injured most of the year. Luckily it was early in the season, but other than timing, TA was doing his job quite well. Difference was timing of their injuries.

The main problem with resting our wings was more of coaching problem than a personel problem. But surely you don't see it that way. And then came the playoffs, which he incorrectly cut down TA's minutes, when he should've played more. And incorrectly inserted TA at the end of games when he shouldn't have... Big Baby should've stayed on the floor. He was quite content with playing Marbury and House against Chicago when they were clearly not cutting it, and in the meantime letting Rose and Gordon have their way with them.

Same thing occured last year with Cassell. He over trusted the vets, which I don't blame him to a point, but he had options and he wasn't using them adequately. Difference was that during our championship year he made the adjustments, a bit late, but he did them. TA shoudl've had more playing time early on during the Chicago series and build from there.

Would he have played better? Who knows, but he was the better option than Marbury at the very least. Other than that one poor game against Chicago (when he wasn't even supposed to be on the floor), TA wasn't the catastrophe people are trying to make him to be.

Now, not saying that Pietrus wouldn't have manage... in fact, he surely would've since he's a better player and I have no reason to believe that Doc wouldn't trust him. Just saying that TA wasn't used as he should've, especially when you consider who they were playing instead and how they were performing.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2009, 02:56:18 PM by BudweiserCeltic »

Re: Blame Danny for Tony and Powe
« Reply #38 on: August 17, 2009, 02:36:41 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Celtics owned his Bird rights and used that to give him that 2 year $5 million contract. Personally I would have preferred they had let Eddie and Tony go and signed Roger Mason or Mickael Pietrus with the full MLE, but that was just me and yes, go back and check the record, that's what I was calling for last year.

  Neither of them were worth the full MLE.
As what was already correctly deduced by someone else what I meant was we would have the full MLE to use on someone else. It was going to take more than 60% of the MLE to get Mason, a 42% three point shooting, 12 PPG scoring wing that would have provided a lot better rest at the wing than Tony, Eddie or the rookies did. Given he won like three games single handedly with last second shots for the Spurs last year my opinion is, he would be worth [dang] near all the MLE and if you could have gotten him at $4 million per you would have gotten a bargain. Remember, this was last year before the economy tanked so what might be perceived as an overpayment now, though I don't think so, was reasonable back then.

Pietrus got almost the whole MLE and was definitely worth it being a difference making shut down defender as well as a clutch shooting offensive player that the Magic and many experts, just were not expecting. Again, in last year's market it looked like a possibility of an overspend but with his playoff contributions and the solidity he gave the bench, he was worth every penny and remains that way.

I would have preferred either over the combined contributions of Allen and House last year and whatever they may bring the team this year.

  Sorry Nick. I went by what you said (Roger Mason or Mickael Pietrus with the full MLE) instead of deducing that you meant something else. Peitrus played better than expected, especially in the playoffs, but I still think he's a little overpaid. True, it's a different economy now, but last year most people here felt that Posey was far and away the best wing player available (aside from possibly Maggette) and he only got the MLE so I don't know that Pietrus is worth the same salary.

Re: Blame Danny for Tony and Powe
« Reply #39 on: August 17, 2009, 03:50:46 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Celtics owned his Bird rights and used that to give him that 2 year $5 million contract. Personally I would have preferred they had let Eddie and Tony go and signed Roger Mason or Mickael Pietrus with the full MLE, but that was just me and yes, go back and check the record, that's what I was calling for last year.

  Neither of them were worth the full MLE.
As what was already correctly deduced by someone else what I meant was we would have the full MLE to use on someone else. It was going to take more than 60% of the MLE to get Mason, a 42% three point shooting, 12 PPG scoring wing that would have provided a lot better rest at the wing than Tony, Eddie or the rookies did. Given he won like three games single handedly with last second shots for the Spurs last year my opinion is, he would be worth [dang] near all the MLE and if you could have gotten him at $4 million per you would have gotten a bargain. Remember, this was last year before the economy tanked so what might be perceived as an overpayment now, though I don't think so, was reasonable back then.

Pietrus got almost the whole MLE and was definitely worth it being a difference making shut down defender as well as a clutch shooting offensive player that the Magic and many experts, just were not expecting. Again, in last year's market it looked like a possibility of an overspend but with his playoff contributions and the solidity he gave the bench, he was worth every penny and remains that way.

I would have preferred either over the combined contributions of Allen and House last year and whatever they may bring the team this year.

  Sorry Nick. I went by what you said (Roger Mason or Mickael Pietrus with the full MLE) instead of deducing that you meant something else. Peitrus played better than expected, especially in the playoffs, but I still think he's a little overpaid. True, it's a different economy now, but last year most people here felt that Posey was far and away the best wing player available (aside from possibly Maggette) and he only got the MLE so I don't know that Pietrus is worth the same salary.
Yeah, my bad I should have been more detailed with that wording.

And yes, Posey would have been a better overall fit and Danny would probably never have given Pietrus $5.3 million, but I thought it pretty clear from the beginning that Posey wasn't happening and that Danny needed to focus elsewhere.

Not only statistically speaking but also what they brought to their teams in other ways though, I think Pietrus might have given Orlando every bit as much as Posey did for about the price. I think he would have made an excellent addition to this team short and long term.

But that's last year's argument and I'm done with that one. TP BBall.

Re: Blame Danny for Tony and Powe
« Reply #40 on: August 17, 2009, 03:55:48 PM »

Offline Chris

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And yes, Posey would have been a better overall fit and Danny would probably never have given Pietrus $5.3 million, but I thought it pretty clear from the beginning that Posey wasn't happening and that Danny needed to focus elsewhere.



Yeah, I'm torn on this.  Part of me thinks Posey was going to get the 4th year no matter what, and Danny was just putting on a show for the fans, with no real desire to sign him.  But then when I look at it, and see that every other team other than NO seemed to be holding firm on 3 years max, I think Danny might have really thought the market was going to work for him, and Posey would end up coming back.  It really was a clear desperation overpay by NO, and I don't blame Danny for hoping that no one would take the plunge. 

Re: Blame Danny for Tony and Powe
« Reply #41 on: August 17, 2009, 03:59:42 PM »

Offline Jon

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Leaving Tony out of the equation for now because we don't know what will happen to him, why exactly are people upset Leon Powe is gone?  Even if he was healthy, what exactly was going to be his role here next year?  Last time I checked KG, Perk, and Wallace are going to eat up the majority of 4/5 minutes, leaving sparse minutes even for Big Baby, who would be ahead of Leon on the depth chart.  Furthermore, while you could argue that injuries could occur, Powe really wouldn't be all that useful for two reasons: 1) he might no be healthy when the injury occurred, and 2) if the injury was to anyone but Baby, Powe wouldn't be very useful because he can't effectively play center. 

The fact of the matter is that the C's have a ton of depth at the 4/5 this year.  Furthermore, on any team, you really only have room for one undersized power forward.  Baby fills that role.  I wish Leon the best, but he had no future here. 

Re: Blame Danny for Tony and Powe
« Reply #42 on: August 17, 2009, 04:32:42 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Leaving Tony out of the equation for now because we don't know what will happen to him, why exactly are people upset Leon Powe is gone?  Even if he was healthy, what exactly was going to be his role here next year?  Last time I checked KG, Perk, and Wallace are going to eat up the majority of 4/5 minutes, leaving sparse minutes even for Big Baby, who would be ahead of Leon on the depth chart.  Furthermore, while you could argue that injuries could occur, Powe really wouldn't be all that useful for two reasons: 1) he might no be healthy when the injury occurred, and 2) if the injury was to anyone but Baby, Powe wouldn't be very useful because he can't effectively play center. 

The fact of the matter is that the C's have a ton of depth at the 4/5 this year.  Furthermore, on any team, you really only have room for one undersized power forward.  Baby fills that role.  I wish Leon the best, but he had no future here. 
I think part  of it is that last year proved injuries happen and that depth, especially come playoff time is really good to have. I think people think that if Powe could get healthy by the playoffs and that if anyone was hurt or beat up, that they would feel very comfortable with him stepping in and stepping up

I can understand that but I can also understand the very business like, almost Bill Belichickian like, decision that Danny had with Leon.

Re: Blame Danny for Tony and Powe
« Reply #43 on: August 17, 2009, 04:46:35 PM »

Offline Spilling Green Dye

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If Danny's biggest current mistakes are Tony Allen and letting Powe walk, then we have a lot to be thankful for.  Could you imagine having the Elton Brand contract or the other 40 bad contracts that are out there? 

Tony Allen is making $2.5mil, which isn't a huge amount of money, and thus not that big of a mistake.  Calling him "worthless" really has no basis.  I used to enjoy watching TA play, and cringed when I saw him play this past year, but consider the following stats from last regular season (as bad as he played):  While TA was on the court, the Celtics had a positive roland rating, and Tony had a higher PER at both the SF and SG positions than the man he guarded.  There's a number of other Celtic bench players who can't say that they had a higher PER rating than the man they guarded, including a Celtic who just signed a contract worth more than Tony's per year.  I'm not saying Tony is better, but he's not worthless.

If Tony Allen can be used in a defensive role, and be given limited touches on the offensive end, then I think he could be of value this upcoming season.

Re: Blame Danny for Tony and Powe
« Reply #44 on: August 17, 2009, 10:19:50 PM »

Offline Jon

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Leaving Tony out of the equation for now because we don't know what will happen to him, why exactly are people upset Leon Powe is gone?  Even if he was healthy, what exactly was going to be his role here next year?  Last time I checked KG, Perk, and Wallace are going to eat up the majority of 4/5 minutes, leaving sparse minutes even for Big Baby, who would be ahead of Leon on the depth chart.  Furthermore, while you could argue that injuries could occur, Powe really wouldn't be all that useful for two reasons: 1) he might no be healthy when the injury occurred, and 2) if the injury was to anyone but Baby, Powe wouldn't be very useful because he can't effectively play center. 

The fact of the matter is that the C's have a ton of depth at the 4/5 this year.  Furthermore, on any team, you really only have room for one undersized power forward.  Baby fills that role.  I wish Leon the best, but he had no future here. 
I think part  of it is that last year proved injuries happen and that depth, especially come playoff time is really good to have. I think people think that if Powe could get healthy by the playoffs and that if anyone was hurt or beat up, that they would feel very comfortable with him stepping in and stepping up

I can understand that but I can also understand the very business like, almost Bill Belichickian like, decision that Danny had with Leon.

Yeah, I get that, but really the only player I'd feel him comfortable stepping in for is Big Baby, who I don't expect to really get any meaningful PT in the playoffs anyway.  If Sheed or Perk went down, Shelden is a better replacement given his height. 

I was all about him coming back when I thought Baby was leaving; however, I don't think there's room for more than 1 6-6 PF on this team.