Author Topic: Fake Playoffs are Here: Hype your Team/Matchup!  (Read 39000 times)

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Re: Fake Playoffs are Here: Hype your Team/Matchup!
« Reply #45 on: August 17, 2009, 11:20:55 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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I can't see myself voting until much later this evening.  I know which way I'm voting on three playoff series, but the Phoenix / Seattle one befuddles me.

Well, did you see my answer to the Rondo question? Is there any other concern you'd like me to address that my other 3,000 words did not?

I saw the answer, yeah.  I want to at least hear Hoyo's take before giving a final answer.  This one is literally a coin flip for me.

Duncan vs. Big Al:  I like Duncan, just due to his experience and defense.

Kmart vs. Biedrins: Push

Young vs. Howard:  I'd give Howard a slight edge here.

Gordon vs. Mason:  Why isn't this a win for Seattle?

Rondo vs. Ford:  On paper, I'd say Rondo, but he can't stop Ford from scoring.

Bench:  Neither team has very good backup big men; it basically comes down to Robinson and Korver vs. Bass.  I give the edge to Phoenix here.

Of course, this series isn't only about individual matchups.  I'm still open-minded to be convinced either way.

Hey, I'm not saying Duncan's not a good matchup, but with Big Al averaging 25pts against the Big Fundemental since Al got to Minny, and Oberto being my primary Duncan defender, I think I've almost got the "Problem of Tim" solved.


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Re: Fake Playoffs are Here: Hype your Team/Matchup!
« Reply #46 on: August 17, 2009, 11:29:52 AM »

Offline Hoyo de Monterrey

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The fact is TJ Ford is the only guard who can outRondo Rondo. This is a major part of this series, considering IP is relying on Rondo to orchestrate his entire offense. If a major focal point of the team is being at least neutralized, then how can a 7 game series be pulled off if the other major focal point (Al Jefferson) is being matched against Tim Duncan??

This is the playoffs, by the way. Al Jefferson's numbers against Duncan have come in the regular season, during Spurs-Wolves and Spurs-crappy Celtics matchups. The Spurs are famous for turning it on when it matters, and in the playoffs, it matters. Now Big Al doesn't know any of this, because he's never even breathed near the postseason. I love Big Al, but he doesn't have any experience here, and he's being asked to be "The Man" on a team with smokin' Josh Howard and Rajon "I'm not showing up until tipoff" Rondo as his playoff experience role models.

The biggest win in the series for either team is Ben Gordon over Roger Mason, Jr. This is a huge win for the Sonics, as Gordon clearly outclasses Mason. He is a bona fide 4th quarter assassin, as everyone here saw repeatedly in the Bulls-Celtics series. Considering Phoenix's two best players (Rondo and Jefferson) are both borderline neutralized by their opponents (Ford and Duncan), the fact that Gordon over Mason is such a huge Seattle win should give the Sonics a MAJOR edge in the series. The edge in the Young-Howard matchup might go Phoenix right now, but think of Thad Young after another solid season under his belt and with a strong supporting cast. He's ready to take the jump to Howard status, no question. There is no way Young vs. Howard is as much for Phoenix as Gordon-Mason is for Seattle. And considering the volume scoring Gordon can offer, that's a very dangerous matchup to be so pro-Sonic if you're a Suns fan.

Also, my bench is more then just Brandon Bass, who is excellent anyway. Dahntay Jones gets zero respect around here apparently, so whatever. He can still defend and hit a three or two, while Bayless is not useless. I did not agree totally with what IP said (nice misdirection though), as IP said Robinson over Bayless is a Suns advantage. I'm saying neither can stop the other, which seems to be a major refrain IP is leaning on here. However, the lineups match up closely but they lean to Seattle here. Then take into account intangibles, and the fact that Tim Duncan is a Sonic here to provide the ultimate quiet leadership and that Phoenix's two best players are in matchups that really hurt what they are trying to do, and the answer is an easy Seattle. Gordon's going to go off like he did against a Celtics team that was much better then this Suns team.

People seem to be voting Phoenix like crazy, which I would like to hear why. Big Al and Rondo are not going to be Big Al and Rondo when they are going against the only guard who bothers Rondo in the league and the best fundamental big man ever. While those four battle it out, Ben Gordon's just waiting there, looking at Roger Mason and smiling.
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Re: Fake Playoffs are Here: Hype your Team/Matchup!
« Reply #47 on: August 17, 2009, 11:44:07 AM »

Offline johnnyrondo

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I still don't know who to vote for between the Sonics and Suns. They both are second round teams imo.  ???

Re: Fake Playoffs are Here: Hype your Team/Matchup!
« Reply #48 on: August 17, 2009, 11:44:46 AM »

Offline Hoyo de Monterrey

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I still don't know who to vote for between the Sonics and Suns. They both are second round teams imo.  ???

Read my post man. Rondo vs. Ford, Big Al vs. Duncan, Gordon vs... Roger Mason?
"Let me call him," Floyd said.

The man shook his head. "O.J. doesn't give out his cell," he said. "He'll call you."

Re: Fake Playoffs are Here: Hype your Team/Matchup!
« Reply #49 on: August 17, 2009, 11:47:55 AM »

Offline Gainesville Celtic

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I agree the SEA/PHO matchup is a really difficult one.... great matchups. The one thing I keep coming back to is Duncan's (and to a lesser extent Daniels' and Gordon's) playoff experience.


BTW, where are we supposed to see our Eastern Conf. matchups... or do we just post 85 pictures of our players like Chicago and hope that works? 8) (i kid...)

As the ugliest team, that might be the only way we get upset... ;)
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Re: Fake Playoffs are Here: Hype your Team/Matchup!
« Reply #50 on: August 17, 2009, 11:49:19 AM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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Where are we supposed to see our Eastern Conf. matchups... or do we just post 85 pictures of our players like Chicago and hope that works? 8) (i kid...)

Due to the runoff, I'm sure the ballots for the East will be released at midnight tonight.  Unfortunately, you won't know who you're playing until about that time.

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Re: Fake Playoffs are Here: Hype your Team/Matchup!
« Reply #51 on: August 17, 2009, 11:54:00 AM »

Offline johnnyrondo

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I agree the SEA/PHO matchup is a really difficult one.... great matchups. The one thing I keep coming back to is Duncan's (and to a lesser extent Daniels' and Gordon's) playoff experience.


BTW, where are we supposed to see our Eastern Conf. matchups... or do we just post 85 pictures of our players like Chicago and hope that works? 8) (i kid...)

As the ugliest team, that might be the only way we get upset... ;)

GC, did you at least watch all the videos this time? :)  So many to choose from I tried to pick interesting songs. You gotta love the James Brown for Al Horford at least?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqIyBuLAymY

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=31267.msg564980#msg564980

Re: Fake Playoffs are Here: Hype your Team/Matchup!
« Reply #52 on: August 17, 2009, 11:58:05 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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The fact is TJ Ford is the only guard who can outRondo Rondo. This is a major part of this series, considering IP is relying on Rondo to orchestrate his entire offense. If a major focal point of the team is being at least neutralized, then how can a 7 game series be pulled off if the other major focal point (Al Jefferson) is being matched against Tim Duncan??

This is the playoffs, by the way. Al Jefferson's numbers against Duncan have come in the regular season, during Spurs-Wolves and Spurs-crappy Celtics matchups. The Spurs are famous for turning it on when it matters, and in the playoffs, it matters. Now Big Al doesn't know any of this, because he's never even breathed near the postseason. I love Big Al, but he doesn't have any experience here, and he's being asked to be "The Man" on a team with smokin' Josh Howard and Rajon "I'm not showing up until tipoff" Rondo as his playoff experience role models.

The biggest win in the series for either team is Ben Gordon over Roger Mason, Jr. This is a huge win for the Sonics, as Gordon clearly outclasses Mason. He is a bona fide 4th quarter assassin, as everyone here saw repeatedly in the Bulls-Celtics series. Considering Phoenix's two best players (Rondo and Jefferson) are both borderline neutralized by their opponents (Ford and Duncan), the fact that Gordon over Mason is such a huge Seattle win should give the Sonics a MAJOR edge in the series. The edge in the Young-Howard matchup might go Phoenix right now, but think of Thad Young after another solid season under his belt and with a strong supporting cast. He's ready to take the jump to Howard status, no question. There is no way Young vs. Howard is as much for Phoenix as Gordon-Mason is for Seattle. And considering the volume scoring Gordon can offer, that's a very dangerous matchup to be so pro-Sonic if you're a Suns fan.

Also, my bench is more then just Brandon Bass, who is excellent anyway. Dahntay Jones gets zero respect around here apparently, so whatever. He can still defend and hit a three or two, while Bayless is not useless. I did not agree totally with what IP said (nice misdirection though), as IP said Robinson over Bayless is a Suns advantage. I'm saying neither can stop the other, which seems to be a major refrain IP is leaning on here. However, the lineups match up closely but they lean to Seattle here. Then take into account intangibles, and the fact that Tim Duncan is a Sonic here to provide the ultimate quiet leadership and that Phoenix's two best players are in matchups that really hurt what they are trying to do, and the answer is an easy Seattle. Gordon's going to go off like he did against a Celtics team that was much better then this Suns team.

People seem to be voting Phoenix like crazy, which I would like to hear why. Big Al and Rondo are not going to be Big Al and Rondo when they are going against the only guard who bothers Rondo in the league and the best fundamental big man ever. While those four battle it out, Ben Gordon's just waiting there, looking at Roger Mason and smiling.

This whole Ford/Rondo matchup is being overhyped by a lot of people. Is 3 years younger than TJ Ford, and for a lot of his career he was learning his position on the fly against a more seasoned TJ Ford.

Now, this year, while Ford still scored more points, he did not hurt Rondo outside of that.

Their last 3 games:

Plaeyer  TRB   AST   STL   BLK   TOV   PF   PTS
Rondo   7.67   13.67   2.33   0.00   3.67   3.67   8.67
Ford   4.33   5.00   0.33   0.00   3.00   1.00   15.67

Sure, Rondo still isn't scoring like I expect him to, but almost 14 assists? Almost 8 rebounds? Come on. TJ Ford much score 8 more points, but he's not going to help his team win like Rondo.

And speaking of places TJ Ford has never been, he's never been out of the first round of the playoffs. Rondo has won a world title. You think Al Jefferson is mysteriously negated because these magical playoffs role around but TJ Ford is just going to keep on scoring on Rondo? Double standard?

Also, Al Jefferson HAS been to the playoffs, abiet as a rookie. Don't be freaked out, I forgot too.

This whole idea that players just "stop" being themselves in the playoffs because they've never won a World Championship is ridiculous. The basic place we find ourselves in is

A) Tim Duncan is 33 years old and has played a lot of regular season games and playoff games over the course of his career. No one does well through that, and his athletic stats (blocks, steals, rbs) have already started to drop. If anything as Al Jefferson gets another solid year under his belt, his edge over Tim Duncan offensively will increase.

B) Al Jefferson won't be defending Tim Duncan, he'll be defending whoever is next to Tim Duncan. Fabricio Oberto will be defending Tim Duncan.

Seattle wants you all to believe that since Al Jefferson has only made it to the first round of the playoffs, Tim Duncan has magic playoff juju that will make him more effective against Al. However, Seattle doesn't think the same thing goes for Rajon Rondo and TJ Ford, or Josh Howard and Thad Young.

Simply does not work that way.

The facts are:

Yes, Rondo gets outscored by TJ Ford, but Rondo's career scoring average is 9.7 ppg, and against Ford in recent games he's scored 8.7.

Ford's career scoring average is 14.9, against Rondo he got 15.67. That's not domination, that's one guy doing a little bit better, and one guy doing a little bit worse.

Then, look at that in the context of Rondo's 7.7 rebounds and 13.7 assists per game in recent play agaisnt Ford, and you see a guy who scores one less point than his career average, but turned up all other aspects of his game.

Al Jefferson has consistently scored without and problem on Tim Duncan since he got to minnesota. Unless Tim Duncan is going to get 5 years younger or grow 3 inches, I don't see how or why that should change.

Also, "Mr Playoffs" Tim Duncan got booted in the first round 4-1 against Dallas this past season. How come he didn't "Turn it up" to at least make that a series?

We're talking evidence people! Evidence!

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like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Fake Playoffs are Here: Hype your Team/Matchup!
« Reply #53 on: August 17, 2009, 12:02:03 PM »

Offline johnnyrondo

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Ok I'll ask my question to the Suns now and collect my two Tommy's


So you're saying Oberto is guarding Duncan? what happened to Biedrins?

Re: Fake Playoffs are Here: Hype your Team/Matchup!
« Reply #54 on: August 17, 2009, 12:02:51 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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I agree the SEA/PHO matchup is a really difficult one.... great matchups. The one thing I keep coming back to is Duncan's (and to a lesser extent Daniels' and Gordon's) playoff experience.


BTW, where are we supposed to see our Eastern Conf. matchups... or do we just post 85 pictures of our players like Chicago and hope that works? 8) (i kid...)

As the ugliest team, that might be the only way we get upset... ;)

As far as playoff expereince, I have Josh Howard who has been to the Finals, Rondo who has won in the finals, as well as Bruce Bowne and Fabricio Oberto, both extensively seasoned in the plaoyffs.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Fake Playoffs are Here: Hype your Team/Matchup!
« Reply #55 on: August 17, 2009, 12:02:56 PM »

Offline Gainesville Celtic

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Where are we supposed to see our Eastern Conf. matchups... or do we just post 85 pictures of our players like Chicago and hope that works? 8) (i kid...)

Due to the runoff, I'm sure the ballots for the East will be released at midnight tonight.  Unfortunately, you won't know who you're playing until about that time.


No problem... just figured i'd ask.

BTW -- if folks have NBA TV they should check out their top 20 games of the year.... they're running 1 hr long condensed versions all this week.

They're good refreshers as we head into the CBNBA playoffs...

I was watching SAC vs. GSW 3OT game this morning. And I've downgraded Kevin Martin's defense from "average" to "bad". Guys were blowing right by him. His shooting/scoring helped keep SAC in it, but they probably win going away if he D's his man up even once in a while.

Martin's a great fantasy league guy (and is my anchor to Dwight Howard in one of my keeper leagues), but in real life he's atrocious defensively.
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Re: Fake Playoffs are Here: Hype your Team/Matchup!
« Reply #56 on: August 17, 2009, 12:03:30 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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Ugh...  I went with Seattle.  Despite my respect for IP and the team he put together, I think Seattle is ever-so-slightly better.  The deciding factor comes down to Tim Duncan and his experience.

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Re: Fake Playoffs are Here: Hype your Team/Matchup!
« Reply #57 on: August 17, 2009, 12:04:34 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Ok I'll ask my question to the Suns now and collect my two Tommy's


So you're saying Oberto is guarding Duncan? what happened to Biedrins?

His mins will be limited. Oberto won't guard Duncan EVERY minute he's on the floor, but Oberto will see about 25 mins, and not a one when Timmy is not in.

Biedrins will get his time when Duncan is not in, and sometimes paired with Oberto if I don't think their PF can compete with Biedrins. Probably around 20 mpg.

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Re: Fake Playoffs are Here: Hype your Team/Matchup!
« Reply #58 on: August 17, 2009, 12:05:05 PM »

Offline Gainesville Celtic

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I agree the SEA/PHO matchup is a really difficult one.... great matchups. The one thing I keep coming back to is Duncan's (and to a lesser extent Daniels' and Gordon's) playoff experience.


BTW, where are we supposed to see our Eastern Conf. matchups... or do we just post 85 pictures of our players like Chicago and hope that works? 8) (i kid...)

As the ugliest team, that might be the only way we get upset... ;)

As far as playoff expereince, I have Josh Howard who has been to the Finals, Rondo who has won in the finals, as well as Bruce Bowne and Fabricio Oberto, both extensively seasoned in the plaoyffs.

Good point IP, but Duncan led his team.... Rondo and Howard were at best 2nd (howard) and 3rd (Rondo) options.

The diff. between the 2 teams will come down to the smallest things i think.
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Re: Fake Playoffs are Here: Hype your Team/Matchup!
« Reply #59 on: August 17, 2009, 12:05:55 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Ugh...  I went with Seattle.  Despite my respect for IP and the team he put together, I think Seattle is ever-so-slightly better.  The deciding factor comes down to Tim Duncan and his experience.

Sigh. This isn't nam, Roy. There are rules. And numbers. That back up my theories.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner