Kevin Youkilis (suspended for 5 games)

[Rondo2287]

Ok, but you said Youk could have tackled him if he wanted to.  Lets say he does that end the kid lands on his shoulder and ruins his career.  I mean if you think Youk could have done something but didnt I wouldent say that makes him a pansy. I would say that he understands baseball fights alot more than you do.  And again lets look a the physics of the situation.  I really think it had alot more to do with momentum than youk getting tossed.  And its not like Don Zimmer because pedro was still standing in that situation. 

And for the record. When you think about it, isnt it smarter to wind up with the other guy on top.  Look at what happened to Coco last year when everybody piled on and people were pulling his hair and scratching his face because he was available on top.  At least Youk had Porcello as a bit of a shield. 

[indeedproceed]

Ok, but you said Youk could have tackled him if he wanted to.  Lets say he does that end the kid lands on his shoulder and ruins his career.  I mean if you think Youk could have done something but didnt I wouldent say that makes him a pansy. I would say that he understands baseball fights alot more than you do.  And again lets look a the physics of the situation.  I really think it had alot more to do with momentum and its not like Don Zimmer because pedro was still standing in that situation. 

And for the record. When you think about it, isnt it smarter to wind up with the other guy on top.  Look at what happened to Coco last year when everybody piled on and people were pulling his hair and scratching his face because he was available on top.  At least Youk had Porcello as a bit of a shield. 

Right, so you agree that Youkilis wanted to look like he wanted to fight, but never had any intention of doing diddly.

To me that is a pansy move. What is he even really saying? "Don't bean me or I will run at you then hug you really tight until our teammates get there!"?

It all seems like phony baloney macho bullcrap to me. Why even charge? Because you're not gonna let him get away with that without a firm hug and meaningful stare?

[Rondo2287]

And when I said he knows more about baseball fights I mean that he probably knows more about it than all of us not just you.  My bad

[Rondo2287]

Or if you throw at me im going to get both of us kicked out of the game and you're teams long reliever isnt available my team will get into your bullpen extremely quickly. 

[Bankshot]

Very selfish move by Youk.  Now one of the Sox best hitters will be suspended when they are in a tight pennant race.  I know he gets hit a lot, but you have to think of the team and hope the umpire throws out the guy that threw the pitch.  Take one for the team and suck it up.  I hope the people backing Youk do not complain if the Sox don't make the playoffs.

[indeedproceed]

And when I said he knows more about baseball fights I mean that he probably knows more about it than all of us not just you.  My bad

no no you're right, but the whole idea of it all just seems stupid to me.

Or if you throw at me im going to get both of us kicked out of the game and you're teams long reliever isnt available my team will get into your bullpen extremely quickly. 

So he fake fought him to strategically get revenge for being beaned with a ball by charging him, then allowing himself to be tossed to teh ground so the offending player could seem to be the one really doing the fighting?

I've always wondered...what happens if the guy jsut stands there and dares Youk or whoever to take a round out on his jaw?

[Rondo2287]

Was it selfish when Varitek took out A-rod?  They got suspended for that

[Rondo2287]

And when I said he knows more about baseball fights I mean that he probably knows more about it than all of us not just you.  My bad

no no you're right, but the whole idea of it all just seems stupid to me.

Or if you throw at me im going to get both of us kicked out of the game and you're teams long reliever isnt available my team will get into your bullpen extremely quickly. 

So he fake fought him to strategically get revenge for being beaned with a ball by charging him, then allowing himself to be tossed to teh ground so the offending player could seem to be the one really doing the fighting?

I've always wondered...what happens if the guy jsut stands there and dares Youk or whoever to take a round out on his jaw?

That guy would probably get messed up in the face

[jdpapa3]

I think the pitcher's panzy reaction led to Youk having second thoughts when he actually got out there. The pitcher was whining and backpedaling when Youk came after him. Youk couldn't have done anything serious at that point because it would have looked like a cheap shot. It's an unfortunate situation where one pansy makes the other guy look like one.

[Rondo2287]

I think the pitcher's panzy reaction led to Youk having second thoughts when he actually got out there. The pitcher was whining and backpedaling when Youk came after him. Youk couldn't have done anything serious at that point because it would have looked like a cheap shot. It's an unfortunate situation where one pansy makes the other guy look like one.

Agree, TP

[Bankshot]

Was it selfish when Varitek took out A-rod?  They got suspended for that

I don't think the team was hurting as much as it is now.  They cannot afford to have Youk out of the lineup for an extended period with all the dead bats on the team.

[indeedproceed]

And when I said he knows more about baseball fights I mean that he probably knows more about it than all of us not just you.  My bad

no no you're right, but the whole idea of it all just seems stupid to me.

Or if you throw at me im going to get both of us kicked out of the game and you're teams long reliever isnt available my team will get into your bullpen extremely quickly. 

So he fake fought him to strategically get revenge for being beaned with a ball by charging him, then allowing himself to be tossed to teh ground so the offending player could seem to be the one really doing the fighting?

I've always wondered...what happens if the guy jsut stands there and dares Youk or whoever to take a round out on his jaw?

That guy would probably get messed up in the face

You think? I think its like a WWE punch and both players are expected to play along.

[Redz]

Ok, but you said Youk could have tackled him if he wanted to.  Lets say he does that end the kid lands on his shoulder and ruins his career.  I mean if you think Youk could have done something but didnt I wouldent say that makes him a pansy. I would say that he understands baseball fights alot more than you do.  And again lets look a the physics of the situation.  I really think it had alot more to do with momentum and its not like Don Zimmer because pedro was still standing in that situation. 

And for the record. When you think about it, isnt it smarter to wind up with the other guy on top.  Look at what happened to Coco last year when everybody piled on and people were pulling his hair and scratching his face because he was available on top.  At least Youk had Porcello as a bit of a shield. 

Right, so you agree that Youkilis wanted to look like he wanted to fight, but never had any intention of doing diddly.

To me that is a pansy move. What is he even really saying? "Don't bean me or I will run at you then hug you really tight until our teammates get there!"?

It all seems like phony baloney macho bullcrap to me. Why even charge? Because you're not gonna let him get away with that without a firm hug and meaningful stare?

Well...It is pretty much phony bull crap, but it's only because they've been conditioned to not hurt each other, or have "real" fights etc...Even while Youk was running out there I'm sure he was wondering what the hell he was doing, and started to soften his attack.  It's more of an obligatory reaction.  There are so few plays in baseball where the teams are actually allowed to touch each other.  It's foreign territory.

That said, I have this fine vision of both teams lining up to do battle with bats like a scene from Gangs of New York. 

[Rondo2287]

Was it selfish when Varitek took out A-rod?  They got suspended for that

I don't think the team was hurting as much as it is now.  They cannot afford to have Youk out of the lineup for an extended period with all the dead bats on the team.

Ok but we have seen what happens when Varitek left the lineup back in those days between his hitting and defense.  Early 2000 Red Sox teams went into death spirals without v-tek.  So they may not have been hurting as much at that time, but they were just as dependant on him.  

[drza44]

I think it's about understanding the game, and the purpose being served.  Porcello had to hit Youk because his guy got hit.  Youk had to charge the mound because he'd been hit 2 days in a row.  I don't think either move was done out of "rage", it was done because that's the accepted way you get your point across.

Similarly, in the KG/McDyess example given above, the person that says KG never wants to fight is absolutely right.  That isn't the purpose of his glower.  His purpose is to intimidate, to cause someone to be hesitant to make their normal moves.  If that person gets so far out of his game that he wants to escalate it to a fight then KG wins, as long as he doesn't fight back.  Unless you're an expendable enforcer, in today's NBA a fight is never the desired outcome. 

In both cases, it's about knowing the rules, knowing the message you want to send, and executing it.  It's not at all about rage, revenge or being a pansy.