Poll

Do think Ortiz was telling the truth on Saturday?

Yes, I think he made an honest mistake
7 (12.5%)
No, it took him 10 days to fabricate a story
25 (44.6%)
I am not sure, but leaning towards honest mistake
6 (10.7%)
Not sure, my heart says no but my brain says yes
8 (14.3%)
I honestly just don't care
10 (17.9%)

Total Members Voted: 56

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Do You Believe David Ortiz (Poll)
« on: August 10, 2009, 10:42:44 AM »

Offline SSFan 6.33

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So, Do you believe Big Papi?

If so why?

If not why?
« Last Edit: August 10, 2009, 11:08:25 AM by SSFan 6.33 »
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Re: Do Believe David Ortiz (Poll)
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2009, 10:44:36 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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There is just to much of this going on in the sport to believe anyone.
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Re: Do Believe David Ortiz (Poll)
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2009, 10:46:56 AM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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Before giving a definitive answer, I'd like to know exactly what was being tested for.  In other words, if MLB was testing for certain supplements that were 1) legal in baseball at the time, 2) legal in the United States at the time, and 3) were in wide use (such as andro), I'd give a little more credence to the story.  Was the test solely for steroids, or did it encompass other legal substances?

For now, I voted "my heart says yes, but my head says no".
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Re: Do Believe David Ortiz (Poll)
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2009, 10:51:23 AM »

Offline Chris

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Honestly, I don't care enough to form an opinion.  I could care less if athletes lie to the fans, and I really am sick of the steriod thing altogether.  I want them to police the game, and try to make it as clean as possible going forward, but the fact that these guys who were one some list 6 years ago really does not interest me.  I don't blame anyone for trying to be better at something by doing something they could not get caught for.  

I know it drives people who put a lot into baseball stats crazy, but I could care less about them.  There are so many things wrong with the record books anyways, that its impossible to compare different era's, even without steroids being in play.

Let's just concentrate on cleaning up the game going forward (or let them all take HGH...either way), and forget about this stuff 6 years ago.

Let's leave ARod alone.  Let's stick with complaining about Bonds because he is a Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline., who treats people around him like dirt, and let's tear Clemens apart because he was a traitor to Red Sox nation.  But lets not single out everyone because they just tried to do what it takes to make themselves the best they could be.
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Re: Do Believe David Ortiz (Poll)
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2009, 10:53:24 AM »

Offline SSFan 6.33

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Quote from: Chris on August 10, 2009, 10:51:23 AM
Honestly, I don't care enough to form an opinion.  I could care less if athletes lie to the fans, and I really am sick of the steriod thing altogether.  I want them to police the game, and try to make it as clean as possible going forward, but the fact that these guys who were one some list 6 years ago really does not interest me.  I don't blame anyone for trying to be better at something by doing something they could not get caught for. 

I know it drives people who put a lot into baseball stats crazy, but I could care less about them.  There are so many things wrong with the record books anyways, that its impossible to compare different era's, even without steroids being in play.

Let's just concentrate on cleaning up the game going forward (or let them all take HGH...either way), and forget about this stuff 6 years ago.

Let's leave ARod alone.  Let's stick with complaining about Bonds because he is a Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline., who treats people around him like dirt, and let's tear Clemens apart because he was a traitor to Red Sox nation.  But lets not single out everyone because they just tried to do what it takes to make themselves the best they could be.

Added an "Honestly I don't care" choice
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Re: Do Believe David Ortiz (Poll)
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2009, 10:56:11 AM »

Offline Rondo2287

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Can we add we believe him but it wasnt a mistake to the options.  If its true that he did test positive by taking vitamins and supplements that were not illegal at the time I dont think it was a mistake.  I think he was doing his part as a proffesional athlete to get his body to top condition without cheating. 
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Re: Do Believe David Ortiz (Poll)
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2009, 11:00:42 AM »

Offline JSD

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I don't believe Papi... This steroid stuff is way past the point of annoying. Steroids are present in every major sport, and until there are blood tests it's still going on with the sloppy getting caught.
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Re: Do Believe David Ortiz (Poll)
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2009, 11:01:38 AM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Quote from: Roy Hobbs on August 10, 2009, 10:46:56 AM
Before giving a definitive answer, I'd like to know exactly what was being tested for.  In other words, if MLB was testing for certain supplements that were 1) legal in baseball at the time, 2) legal in the United States at the time, and 3) were in wide use (such as andro), I'd give a little more credence to the story.  Was the test solely for steroids, or did it encompass other legal substances?

For now, I voted "my heart says yes, but my head says no".

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4385699

Quote
"Substantial scientific questions exist as to the interpretation of some of the 2003 test results," Weiner said. "The more definitive methods that are utilized by the lab that administers the current drug agreement were not utilized by the lab responsible for the anonymous testing program in 2003."

Under the rules of the 2003 testing, Weiner said "legally available nutritional supplements could trigger an initial 'positive' test under our program."

In the statement, he also elaborated on how the 2003 survey tests were conducted. According to Weiner, each test consisted of two sample collections. The first was random and unannounced. The second was taken seven days later, with the player advised to "cease taking supplements during the interim."

"Under the 2003 program, a test could be initially reported as 'positive,' but not treated as such by the bargaining parties on account of the second test," Weiner said.


I think that should answer your question.
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Re: Do Believe David Ortiz (Poll)
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2009, 11:05:23 AM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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I don't think it's about believing Ortiz or not at this point. First and foremost we have to know what he tested positive for. Else, we can just ask any random MLB player if he has used steroids or not and believe him or not without any evidence.

At least his story has been consistent with things he has said in the past, about his supplement use.
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Re: Do Believe David Ortiz (Poll)
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2009, 11:08:20 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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I'm convinced over 50% of the player are on HGH. There's no definitive test and it's easy to come by if you have the money, which they all do. If even a minimum talent 4 year pro is making over $1 million a year what's $25,000 to illegally get a drug that may help you immensely in gaining future earnings that they have no legal way of telling if you are using.

Choice is simple. Buy HGH and deny like crazy.
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Re: Do You Believe David Ortiz (Poll)
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2009, 12:38:25 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Quote from: nickagneta on August 10, 2009, 11:08:20 AM
I'm convinced over 50% of the player are on HGH. There's no definitive test and it's easy to come by if you have the money, which they all do. If even a minimum talent 4 year pro is making over $1 million a year what's $25,000 to illegally get a drug that may help you immensely in gaining future earnings that they have no legal way of telling if you are using.

Choice is simple. Buy HGH and deny like crazy.

Lol, completely agree. There are so many ways to get a bit of an edge in safer ways, that I don't see the need for these athletes to go to the extreme of steroid use. Not that HGH is completely safe, but with proper use and supervision, everything should turn out OK.
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Re: Do You Believe David Ortiz (Poll)
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2009, 12:47:54 PM »

Offline twistedrico

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Where there is smoke there is fire. Not only did Ortiz cheat, he also lied. 
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Re: Do Believe David Ortiz (Poll)
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2009, 12:57:03 PM »

Offline Chris

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Quote from: SSFan 6.33 on August 10, 2009, 10:53:24 AM
Quote from: Chris on August 10, 2009, 10:51:23 AM
Honestly, I don't care enough to form an opinion.  I could care less if athletes lie to the fans, and I really am sick of the steriod thing altogether.  I want them to police the game, and try to make it as clean as possible going forward, but the fact that these guys who were one some list 6 years ago really does not interest me.  I don't blame anyone for trying to be better at something by doing something they could not get caught for. 

I know it drives people who put a lot into baseball stats crazy, but I could care less about them.  There are so many things wrong with the record books anyways, that its impossible to compare different era's, even without steroids being in play.

Let's just concentrate on cleaning up the game going forward (or let them all take HGH...either way), and forget about this stuff 6 years ago.

Let's leave ARod alone.  Let's stick with complaining about Bonds because he is a Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline., who treats people around him like dirt, and let's tear Clemens apart because he was a traitor to Red Sox nation.  But lets not single out everyone because they just tried to do what it takes to make themselves the best they could be.

Added an "Honestly I don't care" choice

Thanks!  It seems I am not alone in that sentiment...
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Re: Do You Believe David Ortiz (Poll)
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2009, 01:10:37 PM »

Offline Birdbrain

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The I didn't know what I put into my body argument is weakest of all.  Strangely I have more respect for Manny who just doesn't seem to give a squat. 

The I don't care squad are most disappointing of all though.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2009, 01:40:28 PM by Birdbrain »
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Re: Do You Believe David Ortiz (Poll)
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2009, 01:18:24 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Quote from: Birdbrain on August 10, 2009, 01:10:37 PM
The I didn't know what I put into my body argument is weakest of all.  Strangely I have more respect for Manny who just doesn't seem give a squat. 

The I don't care squad are most disappointing of all though.

I don't know what's so hard to understand about a test that can get positive results from substances that are not steroid and substances that were legal even in the MLB at that time.
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