Odom returning to the Lakers - C's need to sign Baby

[Mr October]

boston biggest challenge will be the magic. according to hollinger the hater..he says boston is way behind orlando and cleveland in the east.....says the cavs and magic are "scary"...i guess he forgot the celtics won 62 without KG from the all star game on and with no bench

Isn't Hollinger the same guy who said the Celtics were not the best team in the NBA last year when they were 27-2, and scrubs better than Pierce and Allen? Let's ignore him.

quote

I have to go to bat for Hollinger on that point. We won an absurd number of close games to go 27-2. You can't go the whole season pulling that off, and we didn't.

True. But if healthy, the Celtics are the class of the east. The defense at all 5 positions is just so good, so consistent.

If Rondo makes even a small leap forward into this year, the Celtics will be ridiculously good.

[mgent]

Are you kidding?  Odom is like Baby times five.  Baby won't make a difference, it would be nice to have a fourth big with talent.

i would like joe smith off the bench...

lets look at how the fakers match up with the C's:

Rondo > than fisher

Ray < kobe (but it isn't a dramtic difference)

Pierce > than Artest

Perk > than Bynum

KG > Gasol

Sheed > odom

so if you match up each team's top 6...boston is better at all but one level...

Definitely add Eddie > Vujacic up there, I really don't like that guy.
And you're right, shooting-wise Kobe isn't really that better than Ray.  He might be a better penetrater, but we got Paul for that.  He might be a better leader, but we got KG for that.  He might be a better perimeter defender, but we got Rondo for that.  It isn't just Kobe vs Ray, it's Kobe vs our team.  The only thing I could give to Kobe is he might be more clutch than anyone on our team, but not by much.
I would say Rasheed is better than Odom, but i could see why people could think the opposite.
Overall, KG is better than Gasol, even though Gasol might be stronger offensively.
Perk is DEFINITELY better than Bynum; the ONLY thing he has on Perk is length, and not even that much of it.
And Rondo can run laps around Fisher.
Our team is better than theirs no question.

[KungPoweChicken]

Are you kidding?  Odom is like Baby times five.  Baby won't make a difference, it would be nice to have a fourth big with talent.

i would like joe smith off the bench...

lets look at how the fakers match up with the C's:

Rondo > than fisher

Ray < kobe (but it isn't a dramtic difference)

Pierce > than Artest

Perk > than Bynum

KG > Gasol

Sheed > odom

so if you match up each team's top 6...boston is better at all but one level...

No one outside of Boston will agree that Perkins is better than Bynum. And, yes, Bryant is not just "a little bit better than Ray", he is quite a lot better, whether we want to admit it or not. And saying Rasheed is better than Odom is sketchy. Other than those, I agree with what you said.

[mgent]

Baby can't keep up with Odom anyway, lol.
No one outside of Boston will agree Perkins is better than Bynum?
The dude can't even stay on the court.

[KG]

Ugh.  I was really hoping he would sign with Miami.

[ManUp]

These two team are probably in the same place talent, and depth wise. In my opinion, the thing that's really going to make the difference is how the match ups playout.

In my opinion, the matchups that would make or break either team in a 7 game series are.

Rondo vs. Fischer - Rondo is way better than Fischer, but he's basically been a team killer when we face the Lakers. Will things change?
Pierce vs. Artest - Pierce is better than Artest, but can Artest slowdown Pierce enough to take away the Celtics advantage?
Perkins vs. Bynums - Bynum is considered the better of the two, but he's never seemed to be much of a problem for Perk. will things change?

Other questions like will Ray show up or have another bad play-off series are key factors that will make or break the Cs. I think BBD resigning and becoming our 4th big is of little consequence.

[wild]

I believe Perk had a better job(and way too better) defending Dwight than what Bynum did.

[tenn_smoothie]

Definitely add Eddie > Vujacic up there, I really don't like that guy.
And you're right, shooting-wise Kobe isn't really that better than Ray.  He might be a better penetrater, but we got Paul for that.  He might be a better leader, but we got KG for that.  He might be a better perimeter defender, but we got Rondo for that.  It isn't just Kobe vs Ray, it's Kobe vs our team.  The only thing I could give to Kobe is he might be more clutch than anyone on our team, but not by much.
I would say Rasheed is better than Odom, but i could see why people could think the opposite.
Overall, KG is better than Gasol, even though Gasol might be stronger offensively.
Perk is DEFINITELY better than Bynum; the ONLY thing he has on Perk is length, and not even that much of it.
And Rondo can run laps around Fisher.
Our team is better than theirs no question.

not sure if it was hollinger or simmons who did a little stat research on kobe's clutch shooting, but what they found was that while kobe was good at putting that last nail in the coffin for his team in the last two minutes, his shooting % in the last two minutes with the lakers behind is actually not very good - he fails a lot in those situations - in other words, kobe is a great front-runner, but sometimes struggles to make those gut-check shots.

i would say as far as clutch shooters, both pierce and allen are better than bryant.


as for what the celts need right now - i'd love to have glen davis back, but we need more help on the perimeter when teams go small on us and when we need to defend james, bryant and carter in the playoffs.

as for orlando - they did lose three starters ...... you never know how chemistry will be effected for them.

[Spilling Green Dye]

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/60888/20090730/source_odom_will_sign_with_lakers/

We need to sign Baby and keep this frontcourt. WIth Marquis and a PG we're ready to go.

If you're implying that the Odom signing can only be matched by us signing BBD then I'm thoroughly disheartened.  Celtics fans can't actually think this, can they?  Like the time I saw "No BBD = Lakers dynasty". 

Odom is someone who will play 30+ minutes on the Lakers, and rightfully so. 

BBD is someone who is the 5th big (behind Perkins, Sheed, KG, and Scal... yes scal) who should get 6minutes a game on average. 

IMO the Odom signing and the BBD signing are completely independent of eachother.  If I'm wrong then we'll be seeing Miami throwing tons of money at BBD to make up for losing out on Odom.  Do you think that will happen?

BBD is way better than Scals give me a break

I'm not saying Scal is a better 1 on 1 player, or more talented.  I'm saying that Scalabrine coming off the bench as a 4th big provides a better statistical rotation than if it were BBD.  All of last season backs this up, and is the reason Scal should have been (and was) brought in as such over BBD until he had the multiple concussions. 

But true Jon, the 4th big won't be getting many minutes.  And fafnir's point is also very valid that if we're going against the Lakers and we're relying on BBD for 20+minutes a game, then we're already screwed. 

Again, the Odom & BBD signing are completely independent.  Too bad too, I'd like to do a S&T with Miami.

[celticinorlando]

kobe is great but ray allen can play with him...it is not like ray is ricky davis out there. you guys are making it sound like there is this grand canyon divide between them. i have to disagree that bynum would be considered better than perk. perk stepped up last season...bynum is made of glass....and gasol tends to shrink when he plays against KG.....

as for baby going up against odom...i would think sheed would draw those duties and let baby handle someone else...the lakers dont' have a lot of size nor girth on their bench...in fact after odom there bench is very average

[Spilling Green Dye]

kobe is great but ray allen can play with him...it is not like ray is ricky davis out there. you guys are making it sound like there is this grand canyon divide between them. i have to disagree that bynum would be considered better than perk. perk stepped up last season...bynum is made of glass....and gasol tends to shrink when he plays against KG.....

as for baby going up against odom...i would think sheed would draw those duties and let baby handle someone else...the lakers dont' have a lot of size nor girth on their bench...in fact after odom there bench is very average

BBD doesn't factor into a matchup discussion with the Lakers for 2 reasons.  First, BBD is not high on the depth chart.  Secondly, there is no way BBD would matchup well with Bynum or Gasol, and it'd be a laugher to see him try to guard Odom. 

Personally I think Perkins is more valuable than Bynum.  Most laker fans would disagree, but I don't care.  And yes, the gap between Kobe & Ray is pretty darn sizeable.  Ray's defense last year was subpar, especially for someone getting paid 20 million or so.  I love the guy, but he's become a defensive liability, and his offense now requires great screens.  He's still quite good though.

[DinTN]

I'm wondering what's going on now with our off-season.

Signing Rasheed - great move

Odom resigns with LAL - We have to improve to keep up.

We can't seem to finish the Daniels deal.
Today is final day of Pruitt and may not get any trade value.
BBD is still a question.

Now reading that Powe may go to Cleveland and Boston is no longer interested ? This really bugs me. One, we need him. Two, why are other teams showing interest but we aren't? Can't we offer him a non-guaranteed deal or something?

Does anyone have this all figured out or is it just me that's confused?

[Fafnir]

I'm wondering what's going on now with our off-season.

Signing Rasheed - great move

Odom resigns with LAL - We have to improve to keep up.

What makes you think that? When KG was healthy we were just as good as LA.

[wdleehi]

Are you kidding?  Odom is like Baby times five.  Baby won't make a difference, it would be nice to have a fourth big with talent.

i would like joe smith off the bench...

lets look at how the fakers match up with the C's:

Rondo > than fisher

Ray < kobe (but it isn't a dramtic difference)

Pierce > than Artest

Perk > than Bynum

KG > Gasol

Sheed > odom

so if you match up each team's top 6...boston is better at all but one level...

No one outside of Boston will agree that Perkins is better than Bynum. And, yes, Bryant is not just "a little bit better than Ray", he is quite a lot better, whether we want to admit it or not. And saying Rasheed is better than Odom is sketchy. Other than those, I agree with what you said.

I would bet the opposing big men of the other 28 teams would agree with that (along with Gasol)

[Jon]

The Odom signing worries me, but not as much as some.  I think Artest is an improvement over Ariza, but I still think the C's (minus Wallace and Daniels) would have beaten the Lakers in the Finals had KG been healthy. 

If you believe a healthy Celtic team would've beaten the Lakers last year (or at least would've held their own), you really have to ask yourself what team had the better offseason. 

Artest is an upgrade over Ariza.  However, Rasheed Wallace is an upgrade over Big Baby too.  Similarly, Marquis Daniels is arguably just as much of an upgrade over the likes of Tony Allen and Bill Walker. 

And while you can look back to 2008 and talk about what Bynum does for them now, you're looking at the whole picture if you're taking into account the enormous strides that Perkins and Rondo have made over the past year or so.  I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that both were half the players in the 2008 Finals that they are now. In 2008 Rondo was commonly replaced in key spurts with the likes of House and Cassell; P.J. Brown or Posey was often in for Perk.  Could you see that happening now? 

The Lakers will be good next year, but so will the C's.  What's more, the Lakers are going to have some competition going through the Spurs.  They didn't have that last year.